Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Proper questions are those asked in Upanisads, Bhagavad gita, Vedanta sutra, SB and sattvic Puranas. Theyre related to the nature of Krsna (brahma jijnasa) and related topics.

BG 4.34 gives three conditions: 1. approaching guru with 2. submissiveness and 3. service.

...and dont forget the other half of the 4.34 equation: The proper person to ask from should be a realised soul who as seen the truth.

>what are the proper questions to ask, and what is the proper way to ask them?

There is no need of any proper way to ask. All the answers are given in Srila Prabhupadas books. Why would you be interested in second hand knowledge, when you can have first hand knowledge directly from his books, directly from Srila Prabhupada. This is where from bogus gurus get the knowledge and sell it in lieu of their worship. Bogus gurus are trying to make changes to original books as well, these are not the right people. Better you keep away from these bogus gurus. They will be interested only till the time you get initiation from them. Their marketing agents are everywhere.

I was studying in university and I never attended any of lectures, I found reading books on my own more comfortable and I have never failed any exam. Some of the lecturers,their notes were 5 years old and they were teaching those 5 year old things and I could understand better by reading books.

> Bogus gurus are trying to make changes to original books

This happened in the 1st editions of BBT books, due to various reasons. See bbtedit.com

Actually my siksa and diksa guru all responded positively when they were asked questions which were pertinent for ones personal advancement.With an enthusiastic and submissive spirit it can be a very sublime and wonderfully ecstatic amd blissful treasured moment! As a genuine disciple it is your duty to encourage the guru by inteligent thoughtful enquiries.Especially for women it is an opportunity to be noticed by the guru!However never ask a question unless you intend to accept the answer.

Sorry Vikrant....but this devotee...Bhaktine baker is too smart for your ineptdeath of the sampradaya ravings!She is infact sincere!....Krishna can make his prescence felt through the self realised soul or a book printer ....merely offering his sincere and genuine opinion.Which srila Prabhupada accepted as the voice of the super soul.Which encouraged him to print substantial books.Ideally you should love and appreciate the instructing spiritual master.....either diksa or siksa.

> VEDA:Proper questions are those asked in Upanisads, Bhagavad gita, Vedanta sutra, SB and sattvic Puranas. Theyre related to the nature of Krsna (brahma jijnasa) and related topics.

But if those questions are already asked and answered in those scriptures, then why ask them again - what is the reasoning behind asking questions that have already been asked and answered?

In comparison, for example, in Buddhism, they have the "twenty questions to ask a kalyanamitta", they go like this:
'91What is wholesome?'92
'91What is unwholesome?'92
'91What is blameworthy?'92
'91What is free of blame?'92
'91What must be associated with?'92
'91What must be dissociated from?'92
'91What must be developed?'92
'91What must not be developed?'92
'91What must be entered upon and dwelt in?'92
'91What must not be entered upon and dwelt in?'92
'91What must be given attention?'92
'91What must not be given attention?'92
'91How is there defilement?'92
'91How is there purification?'92
'91How is there progress?'92
'91How is there regress?'92
'91How is there bondage?'92
'91How is there liberation?'92
'91How is there an arising of personality?'92
'91How is there a cessation of personality?'92

The idea there is twofold: one, one should first learn the proper answers to these questions from scriptures and santly persons, and reflect on them oneself; and two, when assessing who would be appropriate to associate with, it is by asking the prospective friend these questions and examining their answers that one is supposed to judge whether that person is appropriate to be associated with or not.

Is there something similar in Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

[quote][cite] sri_govinda_das:[/cite]However never ask a question unless you intend to accept the answer.[/quote]

This would be so in the case where one is asking a question of someone whom one already trusts and respects, wouldnt it?[br]

[br]When one is still in the process of getting to know someone, assessing whether that person can be trusted and respected as an authority or not, is hard to do without asking them some questions, too.

> But if those questions are already asked and answered in those scriptures, then why ask them again - what is the reasoning behind asking questions that have already been asked and answered?

No reason. We should study what is available and ask only for clarification.

> Is there something similar in Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

Somehow close is Nectar of Instruction (Upadesamrta). And also Yaksa Prasna from Mahabharata (Yudhisthira talking with Dharmaraja in the form of a yaksa).

> Is there something similar in Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

Yes, all over the place. The entire dynamic of all Puranas etc is one of questions and answers revolving around the theme of how to live properly in the material world and how to get out of it. I am reading Varaha-purana at the moment where Bhumi-devi asks about 30 or 40 questions in a row to Lord Varahadev. Or see the numerous similar questions asked to Bhishmadev on his deathbed. Or see the questions put by Arjuna in Bhagavad-gita.

> But if those questions are already asked and answered in those scriptures, then why ask them again - what is the reasoning behind asking questions that have already > been asked and answered?

I see there are three reasons. One you mentioned, i.e. that you can judge a person by his words and knowledge.

The second is because of the spiritual taste in in hearing and discussing the answers. It is spiritually pleasing: kathayantauc0u347 ca mu257 u109 u769 nityau109 u769 tusu803 yanti ca ramanti ca: great sages derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Krishna, His pastimes and the path of devotion. (Bg10.8). Even Sanjaya had his hairs standing on end after hearing the Bhagavad-gita (Bg18.74).

The third is because we normally forget the first time we heard the answer, as in the Anu-gita of the Mahabharata where Arjuna asks Krishna to repeat the Bhagavad-gita because he had forgotten the first time. Or, we may need to clarify what we heard the first time, as in the Bhagavad-gita where there are a few questions Arjuna asks twice.

Dear Baker,

Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupadas Divine Lotus Feet.

Q "But if those questions are already asked and answered in those scriptures, then why ask them again - what is the reasoning behind asking questions that have already been asked and answered?"

A We dont even know what questions to ask, we are such fools; we develop minds and bodies according to the questions we ask. All creatures are busy constantly asking and answering questions. "Srila Prabhupada: For example, the dog is busy for sense gratification: where is food, where is shelter, where is a female, where is defense?" quoted from The Science of Self-Realization by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada-a great question and answer book.

Our Acaryas provide thousands of questions and Buddhists provide 20 questions because we dont know what we should ask. Generally we ask questions based on the body, like the dog; about the price of rice, the latest media gossip, who is with who, where the best jobs are, etc. Its called gramya katha or village talk. Those 20 Buddhist questions deal with the mind and society and are far below the absolute spiritual questions and answers found in places "all over" Srila Pabhupadas and our Acaryas writings, as mentioned by Deena. A great source of Perfect Questions, Perfect answers, is the book Srila Prabhupada provided for us by the same name. Beyond that, you can read discussions of Srila Rupa Goswami, Srila Sanatan Goswami and Srila Ramananda Raya with Lord Caitanya in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. The song/poem Vaisnava Ki by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and other songs by the Vaisnava Acaryas ask and answer so many perfect internal questions on our behalf. The Acaryas are not asking for themselves-they are asking for us, enabling us to ask the necessary questions and then learn. "The cognitive faculty of the individual soul can have no ground to stand upon unless the Divinity Himself condescends to be the legs as well as the ground on which he is to stand to function at all. " Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

We are so fortunate that our Acaryas have not only told us which questions to ask but given the perfect answers. There is no speculation like those 20 Buddhist questions leave room for; so swiftly we will learn everything of highest spiritual value while pleasing Sri Guru, Sri Hari and Sri Vaisnavas, and that is the real goal of the soul. Getting the answers to questions is not the real goal. "Those who suppose they understand the meaning of his message without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya are disposed to unduly favour the methods of empiric study of his writings. There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

To take Deenas last point a step further, Srila Prabhupada spent 12 years stressing that we are not the body. I once wondered when he would speak more about rasik or tasty topics. Fact is, we still think we are our bodies and minds and until we advance beyond that, we require to hear the things that relate to our level, over and over and over again--like a school-child having to attend the same grade he failed again and again. People i know who study Srila Prabhupadas books never tire of them, each read reveals a deeper or different truth and gives a more relishable experience, encouraging them forward in bhakti yoga. Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Original Edition is the most important book, full of questions and answers. Srila Prabhupada ki jai!

[quote][cite] maah!:[/cite] Srila Prabhupada spent 12 years stressing that we are not the body. I once wondered when he would speak more about rasik or tasty topics. [/quote]

He did speak of these topics and wrote extensively on them in C.C. The Madhya Lilas

So many confused devotees inside and outside of Iskcon..why?..because most devotees simply dont read..by not reading or studying Srila Prabhupadas books
for yourself you will not know if your guru or friendly devotee blogger is following the philosophy or concocting their own.

Anyone who is serious about this path must not only read but study, and anything you find not clear or difficult to understand ask a bonafide representative, and also use your own brain, do not accept anyone on the simple grounds of being rubber stamped by some committee.

I guarantee that if you read or study Srila Praphupadas books you will have many questions and if you are not satisfied with the answer talk to other vaisnavas, some vaisnavas are more expert in different areas.

Above all read as much as you can preferably Srila Prabhupadas books and the earliest editions you can find (that have not been modified)
By reading and studying Shastra it will help you to recognise a bonafide spritual master because his words should be consistent with what you have read,
but if you dont read you will not even know if he is following the philosophy because you will not know the philosophy. Everyone should read.

> no speculation like those 20 Buddhist questions leave room for

They can be also answered from the gss pov.

> Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Original Edition is the most important book, full of questions and answers.

1968 Collier is an abridged edition
1972 MacMillan is also full of errors introduced by inexperienced editors

So I definitely recommend 1983 edition. This issue was discussed here earlier. See also bbtedit.com

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Please excuse me for the great offense of making it sound as if Srila Prabhupada did not speak about the tasty lilas of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I wondered that at a lecture once in the beginning of the seventies, then Krishna Book came out and Nectar of Devotion and later the Srimad Bhagavatam and Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. Srila Prabhupada so expertly arranged His divine writing that we regularly get reminded we are not the body and enticed by Lord Krishnas qualities, form and pastimes at the same time.

Because i heard Srila Prabhupada say over and over, "DONT CHANGE ONE WORD" and i and experienced first-hand the deplorable mind-set of those who thought this very important eternal instruction has loopholes they can take advantage of, i avoid as much as possible books changed by those who disobey their Spiritual Master. I have mistakenly been referring to the 1973 edition as the original edition which Veda points out is actually the Collier edition that Srila Prabhupada was disappointed in, due to the editing of the publisher.

Srila Prabhupada approved Srimad Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 1972 MacMillan edition and used it every day up until He physically departed in 1977. Five years is enough time to change it Himself if he thought it warranted changing, but He did not, rather He repeatedly said "DO NOT CHANGE ONE WORD". If it is good enough for my Eternal Spiritual Master, this foolish servant accepts His verdict. www.asitis.com publishes a very user-friendly Authorized 1972 edition online and distributes it and other Authorized editions of Srila Prabhupadas books. BookChanges.com is trying to educate newer devotees about this topic.

At Prabhupadanugas.com.eu Bhagavat das remembers:

"Srila Prabhupada said: He (meaning Krishna) asked me to come here and I said that I did not want to go because it was such a dirty place. He (meaning Krishna) told me if you go I will arrange so many nice palaces for you to live in. I said but I do not want to go. He (meaning Krishna) said you just go and write these books and I will make it comfortable for you. So Srila Prabhupada said because He asked me to write these books I came. So here it is quite clear that the main reason why Srila Prabhupada came to this world was to write these books by the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna. Is Jayadwaita a Nitya Siddha eternal associate of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna who was ordered to come here to edit these books. If not then he should leave the books alone!"

This is how a true disciple worships His Spiritual Masters words. By Bhagavat Das, quoted from Prabhupadanugas.com.eu

"After Srila Prabhupada'92s departure there is a little known pastime, that will not remain so after this letter goes on your website, where Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj helped to reveal the unrivalled perfection of Srila Prabhupada'92s masterful translation of Bhagavad Gita. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj was given the service by Srila Prabhupada of translating all of His books into the Orissan language. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj was a great scholar who could write and speak in five languages, Orissan, Hindi, Bengali, English, and Sanskrit. He got his degree in English from the University with a minor in Sanskrit. I lived with Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj in the same room for nearly 3 years. He translated Srila Prabhupadas Bhagavad Gita with the greatest love and devotion and attention for detail. Because of His vast command of languages He was able to notice little details that others may have overlooked. One thing that was a cause of great transcendental concern for Him was the fact that when Srila Prabhupada translated a word from Sanskrit to English it would not be the same if Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj translated the Sanskrit word directly to Oriya. In other words the English word that Srila Prbhupada used to explain the Sanskrit word had an entirely different meaning than the Oriya word that would normally be used as a translation of this same Sanskrit word. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj was concerned that in translating the literal English into Oriya that many Pandits and Scholars would complain that this was not an accurate translation.

Since Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj did not want to change one single word of His beloved Spiritual Masters books but at the same time be able to defend the scholarships of His Guru Maharaj beyond the shadow of a doubt, He devised a plan for writing down all of the so called contradictions in a list until he completed the entire work. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj then went to a little village to see the now retired Sanskrit professor who had taught Him Sanskrit in college. This man was considered one of the foremost authorities on the Sanskrit Language in India having one of the largest personal libraries on the subject, including one of the best collections of Sanskrit to English Dictionaries. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj knew that this scholars grasp of Sanskrit to English translation would provide him with the evidence he needed to prove the authority of Srila Prabhupada'92s work.

After about ten days Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj returned to the little mud hut that we lived in with the Sanskrit professor in tow. The Sanskrit professor introduced himself (I apologize but unfortunately I cannot remember his name) and began glorifying His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada'92s masterful translation work. The Professor told me that he started studying Sanskrit when he was five years old, now in his late 70'92s he had been studying the language for over 70 years. He told me how on the first review of his dictionaries he could not find the translations that Srila Prabhupada had made from Sanskrit to English, but he said that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj kept encouraging him to keep looking, assuring him that he would find the translation if he looked long and hard enough. The professor said he would have given up if it were not for Srila Gour Govinda Maharajs insistence that His Guru Maharaj had been accurate and that if he looked hard enough he would find it. Then the professor told me that he found each and every translation that Srila Prbhupada had made. The professor told me that these translations that your Guru has made are the most obscure and brilliant explanations of these words from Sanskrit to English that he had ever seen. The professor admitted that with all of his education and training he could not have thought of these obscure and brilliant meanings that so perfectly expressed the inner truths of the mysteries of the Bhagavad Gita. The professor then said having seen this translation work of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada he was convinced that Srila Prabhupada was the greatest Sanskrit scholar in the history of civilization and must have been directly enlightened by the Supreme Lord Krishna to accomplish this work."

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Srila Gour Govinda Maharaha.
Back to topic:

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.19.37 Maharaja Parikshit:

"You are the spiritual master of great saints and devotees. I am therefore begging you to show the way of perfection for all persons, and especially for one who is about to die."

PURPORT

Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder. Generally a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt. Mahuc0u257 ru257 ja Paru299 ku7779 it is the right type of disciple because he puts forward questions vital to the interest of all men, particularly for the dying men. The question put forward by Mahu257 ru257 ja Paru299 ku7779 it is the basic principle of the complete thesis of u346 ru299 mad-Bhu257 gavatam. Now let us see how intelligently the great master replies.

Verse 38 "Please let me know what a man should hear, chant, remember and worship, and also what he should not do. Please explain all this to me."

Srimad Bhagavatam 2.1.1.

u346 ru299 u346 ukadeva Gosvu257 mu299 said: My dear King, your question is glorious because it is very beneficial to all kinds of people. The answer to this question is the prime subject matter for hearing, and it is approved by all transcendentalists.

PURPORT

Even the very question is so nice that it is the best subject matter for hearing. Simply by such questioning and hearing, one can achieve the highest perfectional stage of life. Because Lord Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a is the original Supreme Person, any question about Him is original and perfect. Lord u346 ru299 Caitanya Mahu257 prabhu said that the highest perfection of life is to achieve the transcendental loving service of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a. Because questions and answers about Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a elevate one to that transcendental position, the questions of Mahu257 ru257 ja Paru299 ku7779 it about Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a philosophy are greatly glorified. Mahu257 ru257 ja Paru299 ku7779 it wanted to absorb his mind completely in Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a, and such absorption can be effected simply by hearing about the uncommon activities of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a. For instance, in the Bhagavad-gu299 tu257 it is stated that simply by understanding the transcendental nature of Lord Ku7771 u7779 u7751 as appearance, disappearance, and activities, one can immediately return home, back to Godhead, and never come back to this miserable condition of material existence. It is very auspicious, therefore, to hear always about Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a. So Mahu257 ru257 ja Paru299 ku7779 it requested u346 ukadeva Gosvu257 mu299 to narrate the activities of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a so that he could engage his mind in Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a. The activities of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a are nondifferent from Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a Himself. As long as one is engaged in hearing such transcendental activities of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a, he remains aloof from the conditional life of material existence. The topics of Lord Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a are so auspicious that they purify the speaker, the hearer and the inquirer. They are compared to the Ganges waters, which flow from the toe of Lord Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a. Wherever the Ganges waters go, they purify the land and the person who bathes in them. Similarly, ku7771 u7779 u7751 a-kathu257 , or the topics of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a, are so pure that wherever they are spoken, the place, the hearer, the inquirer, the speaker and all concerned become purified.

maah! I have met devotees who also have felt the way you do about editing, up and until they actually did some good research. Please see a good deal of the videos on www.bbtedit.com. Perhaps you can comment specifically about each of the different videos.

Again really nice posts Maal Prabhu. A blessing!

Hari,Guru,Vaisnava,Bhagavad Gita!

I really,really feel enlivened and take inspiration when ur posts appear.

There is a certain vibration to ur posts I feel. DARSAHAN!!

Ysvt.

Hare Krishna!

Dear NityanandaChandra Prabhu,

Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for your suggestion, but book changes are maya, and kali trying to destroy this movement by replacing the authority of Srila Prabhupada with the stupid minds desire to lord it over, while begging approval from the masses. Our duty is only to the instructions of the Founder/Acarya of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada: "DONT CHANGE ONE WORD". Spiritual topics are very, very subtle and even one word in a sentence can change the meaning which we dull-headed fools wont even realize. As this goes on for the next ten-thousand years, each Tom Dick and Harry supposedly improving on the last Tom Dick and Harrys translation, this movement, which is founded on Srila Prabhupadas wonderful books and desire, will loose all respect and potency, thus depriving others (and ourselves, should we take birth again) of the chance to go Back Home, Back to Godhead. What makes these current book-changers think they will have the last word? They have surely starting a precedent that it will be book-changes for the next ten thousand years, not Srila Prabhupadas law books. We have to stop it now, unconditionally. Not only that, the pure taste is contaminated by changers and the Lord in the heart doesnt enjoy hearing that contamination of His words, thus we, who are tiny fragmental parts of Him, will also experience unhappiness. When the Lord is happy, all parts of Him will be happy too. Even if everyone in the universe agrees that changing Srila Prabhupadas books is the right thing, and only one or few do not, why should they compromise their position? The purpose of the transcendental literature is to connect the devotee with the Lord. The Authorized Editions did and do that. No need to change them at all--even if imperfectly composed.

SB 1.5.11: On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this worlds misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.

There is only one person we need to please to gain the lotus feet of our eternal Lord Sri Krishna and that is our eternal spiritual master.

"By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Lord Krishna. Without the grace of the Spiritual Master, NO one can make any advancement." This is the sankirtan movement of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. By His mercy there are topmost dedicated disciples like Srila Gour Govinda Swami and others who are worshipping Srila Prabhupadas divine books as He left them with us. The pure message and intention of Lord Caitanya will not be stopped; but If ISKCON continues supporting these renegade book changers, the pure Siddhanta will leave it and appear someplace else like it left the Gaudiya Math and went with Srila Prabhupada to ISKCON. Those throughly honest persons who want Him As He Is, will be directed from within to go there. Hare Krishna.

Thakura Bhaktivinoda by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur...hope youll read the entire article.

"Thakura Bhaktivinoda did not want us to go to the clever mechanical reciter of the mundane sound for obtaining access to the Transcendental Name of Krsna. Such a person may be fully equipped with all the written arguments in explanation of the nature of the Divine Name. But if we listen to all these arguments from the dead source the words will only increase our delusion. The very same words coming from the lips of the devotee will have the diametrically opposite effect. Our empiric judgment can never grasp the difference between the two performances. The devotee is always right. The non-devotee in the shape of the empiric pedant is always and necessarily wrong. In the one case there is always present the Substantive Truth and nothing but the Substantive Truth. In the other case there is present the apparent or misleading hypothesis and nothing but un-truth. The wording may have the same external appearance in both cases. The identical verses of the Scriptures may be recited by the devotee and the non-devotee, may be apparently misquoted by the non-devotee but the corresponding values of the two processes remain always categorically different. The devotee is right even when he apparently misquotes, the non-devotee is wrong even when he quotes correctly the very words, chapter and verse of the Scriptures."

My dear bhaktine baker.....Vaisnava culture means eventually there is a unique mood which your freinds or guru have which is succint and satisfying in its particular nature.When you ask your guru....and you are sincerly following and forfilling your devotional duties a maturing of your relationship takes place between the both of you.In my experience ...though i have a siksa relationship with Srila Prabhupada,my personal relationship with my other siksa guru...His grace Tamala krishna goswami was far more intense,personal and enduring because he took special interest in me.Being personally present ...he is able to personally ascertain my current advancement and cue the answers with my unique nature and personality in mind.Even my unique devotional mentality and also my many devotional failings allow him to help me better.The investment of his time and energy,means you can please him or dis- please him or her! Eventually sincere inquiries demand that we are serious and take the order of the spiritual master as ones life and soul.Not that he is merely my servant...and we are out to cheat him.Many times devotees shop around for the answer they like!

> Five years is enough time to change it Himself if he thought it warranted changing, but He did not, rather He repeatedly said "DO NOT CHANGE ONE WORD".

This and other concerns are answered at bbtedit.com. It only depends if one is open to explanations or prefers to stick to preconceived ideas.

Such concerns only show that the person doesnt know about the BBT production history but repeats blindly otherss claims.
Ive been working with original transcripts of BG and thus I know what kind of changes Hayagriva d. introduced. If you ask me who of the two is closer to a nitya siddha (SP) - Hayagriva d. or Jayadvaita S. - then I say: its definitely the latter.

Govinda dasi in Honolulu on Jan 26, 2003

Govinda dasi: When we had the meetings here [Honolulu Temple], one of the things that Jayadvaita Maharaja said was that they [the BBT trustees] did not ever prevent devotees from printing the books. But we had a letter from Dhanistha dasi, she'92s an old book distributor. I don'92t know her personally, but she wrote a letter saying that she had approached, she called Jayadvaita in 1996 or 95, to print the books, 5,000, she had the money to do it, and she approached in as simple and stupid a way as possible, just like '93Please, just for sentiment,'94 and so forth, and she was refused.

There'92s some reason going on, that they don'92t want Srila Prabhupada'92s books. You have these books available, but the BBT newsletter in the temple lobby states clearly that the temples cannot buy from Krishna Books Inc.

Devotee: They can buy them from the BBT, but at higher prices than the changed books. But just for the record, where there'92s a will, there'92s a way.

Govinda dasi: OK, I'92ll just go over the notes from the meetings. As you know, we had a series of meetings with Jayadvaita Maharaja: two meetings, actually. And one of the things that we had to make very clear is that this is not a personal issue'97that we don'92t like Jayadvaita'92s writing, or we don'92t like his editing work. That really isn'92t the issue at all. It'92s not how the books were edited; it'92s the fact that they were edited.

The issue is not'97and of course, he took it a bit personally but I think he did understand eventually that that wasn'92t our point'97that we think he'92s a great writer, and he should write and edit many books'97but not Srila Prabhupada'92s books. They should be left as they are. So that'92s the main issue, actually, the main issue.

He feels that the 1972 edition is not in keeping with manuscript, which he only has access to, and is not available to anyone else that he knows about. And that'92s just not the issue. The issue is that when you write something, even if you have an original manuscript'97I'92m a writer, and I may have three [versions] in the trash before I print something'97but whatever I sign my name to and I print, that is the final edition. That'92s what I approve for the world to see. And that'92s really the issue here.

Srila Prabhupada approved of his Gita. He not only approved of it; he spent ten years lecturing from it. Every verse of the Bhagavad-gita, except for a few verses in the First Chapter, Srila Prabhupada spoke on over a period of ten years. He had ample opportunity to say, '93Change this, change this, change this.'94 But he only requested a couple of changes. There was '91cattle raising'92 he wanted changed to '91cow protection,'92 and I believe there was one other, dhyana-yoga or something like that. Those were very small changes.

Govinda Dasi

In those early days, there was no worldwide movement, no BBT, no sannyasis, no GBC, no money and no politics. There was simply lots and lots of spiritual love for Srila Prabhupada. He taught us that love is the basis, not ambition, achievement and accomplishment. It'92s not what you do for Krsna, but how you do it'97with what consciousness. There was just Srila Prabhupada and his family of devotees, and we worked on the books together. Srila Prabhupada certainly oversaw the specific details of the artwork, and he had plenty of time to oversee the writing and editing as well.

My point here is that we are assuming a lot if we think that Srila Prabhupada didn'92t know what was going on with his books. He was directly involved with supervising every aspect of book production, both externally and internally. There is an esoteric spiritual side of this'97he was working through us willing disciples, empowering us with his '91Midas touch.'92 His bhakti infused everything he touched, and we willing servants were simply vehicles for his mercy to shine through. We were not the doers; we were only Srila Prabhupada'92s instruments. Our only qualification was our sincerity, and our simple desire to serve: not to become great ourselves, but to put forth the greatness of our guru. That was our driving desire.

Jayadvaita Maharaja says that he changed the Bhagavad-gita to be more in keeping with the '91original manuscript.'92 I question which manuscript, since nearly two years of editing by Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva had already taken place before Jayadvaita even joined the movement. There certainly were many working drafts and manuscripts in various stages of editing, since Srila Prabhupada spent many hours, weeks and months going over every detail of every single verse of the Gita with Hayagriva. Jayadvaita Maharaja confirmed this in the second Hawaii istagosthi meeting: there is no one '91original manuscript.'92

A writer usually prepares several working drafts before the final draft is polished and sent to press. For example, I made several drafts of this letter, correcting spelling, grammar and style. The first drafts are in my trash bin. I am signing this, the final draft, for publication. If someone took an earlier draft out of my trash bin and published it, I would be greatly annoyed. Similarly, Srila Prabhupada'92s signature is on the final draft of the complete Bhagavad-gita As It Is (completed in 1968 but not published until 1972), not on any so-called '91original manuscripts'92 Jayadvaita Maharaja may possess. To assume that Srila Prabhupada was not watching over and scrutinizing this whole process is absurd. His books were most important to him. He knew both internally and externally what was going into his books, and he signed and sealed the work when it was completed to his satisfaction and ready to go to press.

And how is it that Krsna sent Hayagriva'97a poetry professor'97to Srila Prabhupada? Srila Prabhupada chose Hayagriva to edit the Bhagavad-gita, a poetic work, the '91Song of God.'92 Hayagriva just happened to be a college professor of English literature specializing in the early transcendental poets like Thoreau, Emerson and Yeats. Is this all just '91chance?'92

Govinda dasi:

Srila Prabhupada came from Krsna-loka to '93write some books.'94 He was happy with those books; he read and re-read them from cover to cover. His books were always kept within his reach in any room in which he stayed. When he received a new book from the press, he would sit and read it for hours, and when someone would enter the room, he would lift his eyes from the text, smile broadly and exclaim, '93How wonderful these books are!'94

Certainly, the few typos that slipped through needed Srila Prabhupada'92s correction, but the scope of alterations in Jayadvaita Maharaja'92s edited version is far broader. Jayadvaita Maharaja'92s version of Srila Prabhupada'92s Bhagavad-gita doesn'92t just correct typos; it also succeeds in changing Srila Prabhupada'92s mood, style and often, his meaning. Indeed, after Srila Prabhupada'92s departure, the original Bhagavad-gita was rewritten to suit the taste of the editors, on the plea that it is closer to'97in Jayadvaita Maharaja'92s opinion'97the '91original manuscript.'92 But Jayadvaita Maharaja stated in the second book changes meeting in Hawaii that there were many '91original manuscripts'92 of varying quality and content. There is no one '91original manuscript.'92

In this case, any changes are really unreasonable, when you consider that Srila Prabhupada had the original manuscripts in hand, but chose to sign off on the edited version. Why didn'92t he just choose to print one of those manuscripts? Why did he, instead, spend hundreds of hours with Hayagriva, editing his manuscript to flow beautifully in the English language? Moreover, why would Srila Prabhupada sign it and gift it to the world, if he intended that future editors would dig up some so-called '91original manuscripts'92 and try to change it back to the '91original.'92 It is unreasonable to consider that Srila Prabhupada would intend to give up the results of two years of editing the book with Hayagriva and go backwards to the '91original manuscripts.'92

Srila Prabhupada'92s books were transcendental when he wrote, edited and approved them, and they became the foundation of his International Society for Krishna Consciousness. So how can anyone say that they aren'92t transcendental now? He spoke from the original 1972 edition of Bhagavad-gita As It Is for over half a decade, giving hundreds of classes on nearly every verse and chapter. Srila Prabhupada infused his books with his pure bhakti. '91Errors'92 or no errors, they are, and continue to be, transcendental portals to the spiritual world. That is, unless someone views them with '91mundane vision.'92
adi-vani.org

Another very good point about the problems which arise from changing Srila Prabhupadas books

Atreya Rsi: Hussain Prabhu says that his goal in life is to translate your Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Oh, very good.
Atreya Rsi: Yes, hes a very, very sincere boy.
Prabhupada: So do it immediately. Somebody, some Arabian student made some translation?
Atreya Rsi: Yes, there was some translations of Isopanisad.
Prabhupada: Where he is, that boy?
Atreya Rsi: Into Arabic. Hes in Europe. He is a Palestinian boy.
Hussain is asking how should this translation be done, what is your recommendation, if you have any suggestion.
Prabhupada: Of course, I am not well versed in your language, but you simply, if you understand that English and translate it into Parsi, that will do. As it is, you translate. Dont make any change. Then it will be all right. And when there is difficulty, you can ask Atreya
Rsi. Harikesa.

So in this conversation Srila Prabhupada is telling this person to go ahead and translate his Bhagavad Gita into (Parsi) Arabic language simply using his already existing English translation published by the Macmillan Co. This is the same book that we distributed in the millions all over the world. But he warned him--"don'92t make any changes and then it will be alright."

It is clear, that this BG that was published by Macmillan Co, and daily read by Srila Prabhupada,
was to be printed in as many languages as possible-but all without change!

This is NOT what we have today with Jaya Advaita, and Dravidas version.

Hare Krsna
Damaghosa das

Seeing into the future. How world will be effected by book changes:

Atreya Rsi: Hussain Prabhu says that his goal in life is to translate your Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Oh, very good.
Atreya Rsi: Yes, hes a very, very sincere boy.
Prabhupada: So do it immediately. Somebody, some Arabian student made some translation?
Atreya Rsi: Yes, there was some translations of Isopanisad.
Prabhupada: Where he is, that boy?
Atreya Rsi: Into Arabic. Hes in Europe. He is a Palestinian boy.
Hussain is asking how should this translation be done, what is your recommendation, if you have any suggestion.
Prabhupada: Of course, I am not well versed in your language, but you simply, if you understand that English and translate it into Parsi, that will do. As it is, you translate. Dont make any change. Then it will be all right. And when there is difficulty, you can ask Atreya
Rsi. Harikesa.

So in this conversation Srila Prabhupada is telling this person to go ahead and translate his Bhagavad Gita into (Parsi) Arabic language simply using his already existing English translation published by the Macmillan Co. This is the same book that we distributed in the millions all over the world. But he warned him--"don'92t make any changes and then it will be alright."

It is clear, that this BG that was published by Macmillan Co, and daily read by Srila Prabhupada,
was to be printed in as many languages as possible-but all without change!

This is NOT what we have today with Jaya Advaita, and Dravidas version.

Hare Krsna
Damaghosa das

Sorry, Maah, the above claims dont hold water. These devotees were outsiders to the book production.

"SP spending many months with Hayagriva" cant be documented. He spend a lot of time with him in the beginning but then found it too time consuming. His schedule was different.

"many versions of manuscripts": since many people in the beginning did the transcribing, whoever was available. (Told by Umapati Swami.) One can see how it looked like in scans. Naraim instead of Narayana, etc.

"inaccessible manuscripts"
fact: many devotees in the NE-BBT were working with their xerocopies, myself included.

"Arabic translation from MacMillan" - sure, SP was in a hurry to make his books available with current facilities. Whoever wanted to help was welcome. That doesnt mean they were up to the mark and the errors shouldnt be fixed later.

> '91Errors'92 or no errors, they are, and continue to be, transcendental portals to the spiritual world. That is, unless someone views them with '91mundane vision.'92

Since SP requested editing (by willing-to-help yet neophyte persons) it accuses him of mundane vision... Is that your view?

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Yasoda-nandana: In the Gurukula we were teaching Isopanisad class to the children. So we took... (break) ...Prabhupada and the words which the recent edition of the press is wrong. Many changes were brought. They were trying to make better English, but sometimes, to make better English, I think they were making philosophical mistakes also. There is no so much need of making so much better English. Your English is sufficient. It is very clear, very simple. We have caught over 125 changes. Theyre changing so many things. We are wondering if this is necessary. I will show you today. I have kept the book.

Prabhupada: I know that these rascals are doing. What can be done? How they can be relied on? It is starting. What can I do? These cannot... These rascals cannot be educated. Dangerous. Little learning, dangerous. So how to correct? The leader of these dangerous--Radha-vallabha... Hes a dangerous, who maintains these rascal with this work. Hell always have questions and alteration. That is his business. That is American business. They take that always. What can I do? Ultimate, it goes for editorial. They make changes, such changes... But they are doing without any authority... It is very serious situation. Ramesvara is in direct...

Yasoda-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? Its going to be a different book.

Prabhupada: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation. You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." The next printing should be again to the original way... So write them immediately that "The rascal editors, they are doing havoc, and they are being maintained by Ramesvara and party..." So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, Radha-vallabha. Hes a great rascal.

[quote][cite] sri_govinda_das:[/cite]Many times devotees shop around for the answer they like![/quote]

Is the glass half-empty or half-full?[br]
[br]Are devotees "shopping around for answers that they like"?[br]
[br]Or are they trying to find an answer they can understand, an instruction they find doable?

Maah, unfortunately you resort to selective quoting. The rascal editors conversation supports Jayadvaita S., so you left that out...
Choosing what one likes is a symptom of heresy (from Greek hairein, to choose. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heresy).
Youve lost your credit in my eyes.

> SP: The next printing should be again to the original way...

Done. (ie. as far original as possible, taking into account the way of production)

Baker: What is the difference between choosing what one likes and choosing what is understandable and doable? Imho, sincerity.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Sorry, Maah, the above claims dont hold water. These devotees were outsiders to the book production.

"SP spending many months with Hayagriva" cant be documented. He spend a lot of time with him in the beginning but then found it too time consuming. His schedule was different.

"many versions of manuscripts": since many people in the beginning did the transcribing, whoever was available. (Told by Umapati Swami.) One can see how it looked like in scans. Naraim instead of Narayana, etc.

"inaccessible manuscripts"
fact: many devotees in the NE-BBT were working with their xerocopies, myself included.

"Arabic translation from MacMillan" - sure, SP was in a hurry to make his books available with current facilities. Whoever wanted to help was welcome. That doesnt mean they were up to the mark and the errors shouldnt be fixed later.

> '91Errors'92 or no errors, they are, and continue to be, transcendental portals to the spiritual world. That is, unless someone views them with '91mundane vision.'92

Since SP requested editing (by willing-to-help yet neophyte persons) it accuses him of mundane vision... Is that your view?[/quote]

Witnessing this tension around the editing, there arises a doubt whether those books and the institution that published them can be trusted at all.[br]

[br]Also, (some) devotees put quite a bit of pressure on people to trust the books and the institution. "If you dont trust our books, you are a rascal."[br]

[br]Given this, what should a person put their trust in when studying those books and interacting with the devotees?[br]

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Baker: What is the difference between choosing what one likes and choosing what is understandable and doable? Imho, sincerity.[/quote]

Are a persons likes and dislikes irrelevant?[br]
If a person dislikes something, does that mean said thing is true and right?[br]
If a person likes something, does that mean said thing is false and bad?[br]

[br]My point is that sometimes, one gets criticized for not having accepted something that one did not understand nor found it doable. I dont think such criticism is fair.[br]

[br]BG 3.33: Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows the nature he has acquired from the three modes. What can repression accomplish?

Baker: To put it simply, if I wouldnt trust BBT, I wouldnt serve in it. But for bystanders, the situation may look confusing. Therefore the bbtedit.com site was done, even though a bit late, imho. It should have been out 15 years ago, when the www started.

> Are a persons likes and dislikes irrelevant?

In dharma yes. E.g. I may like drinking alcohol, etc. but still get karma for it.

> If a person dislikes something, does that mean said thing is true and right?
If a person likes something, does that mean said thing is false and bad?

Only Krsna sets the standards. Not our mind or intelligence.

> My point is that sometimes, one gets criticized for not having accepted something that one did not understand nor found it doable. I dont think such criticism is fair.

Therefore a good explanation should be provided by superiors.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

According to Srila Prabhupada, those who change his books are like Rameswar and Radha-vallabha--"they are doing very freely and dangerously" "doing without any authority" "rascals cannot be educated" "doing havoc" "great rascal".
"It is very serious situation."

Despite all the excellent arguments favoring keeping Srila Prabhupadas books as He left them with us: "All rascals are there."
Even when Srila Prabhupada was personally present there existed the: "rascal, always after change" "doing anything and everything at their whim."

Then Srila Prabhupada says, "Who will care?"
Our beloved savior, intimate friend and eternal spiritual master is asking this! Let us try to relieve him of his distress.
We should demand that Srila Prabhupada be obeyed, "The next printing should be again to the original way."

bookchanges.com adi-vani.org krishnastore.com asitis.com

This I call invincible ignorance. Spamming included.

Veda Prabhu,do u serve as part of the Oxford project. I think I met u in Soho St Temple.
Ysvt.

No. I never visited London (not counting Heathrow airport).

The interesting thing is that now that the BBTedit.com is out on the table none of the propagandist are speaking up. Because it is a solid site with solid explanations no is trying to specifically point out mistakes in the site. Only side track arguments.

The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust arguments are there in form of BBTedit.com but some, Maah! included, choose to keep their ears and eyes shut.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Feel free to post any bona fide quote where His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada says the persons NOT making changes to His transcendental books cannot be educated, are rascals, dangerous, creating havoc and doing anything and everything at their whim.

Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Adi Lila 12.9

"Some of the disciples strictly accepted the orders of the uc0u257 cu257 rya, and others deviated, independently concocting their own opinions under the spell of daivu299 -mu257 yu257 .

PURPORT

This verse describes the beginning of a schism. When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas.

Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Adi Lila 12.10

The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless.

PURPORT

Here is the opinion of u346 ru299 la Ku7771 u7779 u7751 adu257 sa Kaviru257 ja Gosvu257 mu299 . Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless.

Adi Lila 12. 11

There is no need to name those who are useless. I have mentioned them only to distinguish them from the useful devotees.

http://causelessmercy.esotericteaching.org/Adi12.htm

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Baker: To put it simply, if I wouldnt trust BBT, I wouldnt serve in it. But for bystanders, the situation may look confusing. Therefore the bbtedit.com site was done, even though a bit late, imho. It should have been out 15 years ago, when the www started.[/quote]

It does look confusing, yes ... On the one hand, strongly maintaining that the scriptures are right, infallible, and on the other hand wondering what exactly the scriptures say to begin with.[br]

[br][quote]> Are a persons likes and dislikes irrelevant?

In dharma yes. E.g. I may like drinking alcohol, etc. but still get karma for it.[/quote]

But you may also like chanting and eating prasadam.[br]
Religious people sometimes seem to come from the position that whatever a person likes, is irrelevant, wrong, bad. As if it would be completely impossible that someone could like spiritual activities, and as if spiritual life would be all about doing that which one would rather not do.[br]
Just because someone goes by his likes, does not necessarily mean that he is doing something wrong, something adharmic.[br]

[br]Earlier, when I paralleled "shopping around for answers that they like" and "trying to find an answer they can understand, an instruction they find doable", my focus was on how pessimistic/optimistic one is in the way one describes and understands the actions of other people.
[br]Someone with a negative, pessimistic, or critical outlook will much sooner assume the worst about people, and this will reflect in the way that person will describe other peoples actions and how they will interpret their motivations. I think saying that devotees "shop around for answers that they like" is an example of such a negative outlook. Someone with a more positive outlook would describe the same behavior differently, perhaps with "trying to find an answer they can understand".[br]

[br]And surely you joined the Hare Krishna movement because you liked something about it, not because they managed to guilt trip you? :)

[quote][cite] NityanandaChandra:[/cite]The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust arguments are there in form of BBTedit.com but some, Maah! included, choose to keep their ears and eyes shut.[/quote]

Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that they had personal associacion with Srila Prabhupada while he was still on the planet. I am sure this can be stronger than any argument anyone else can ever make.

Narayana: So those disciples who dont have the opportunity to see you or speak with you...
Srila Prabhupada: That he was speaking, vani and vapuh. Even if you dont see his body, you take his words, vani.
Narayana: But how do they know that theyre pleasing you?
Srila Prabhupada: If you actually follow the words of Guru, that means he is pleased. And if you do not follow, how can he be pleased?
Sudama: Not only that, but your mercy is spread everywhere, and if we take advantage, you told us once, then we will feel the result.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: And if we have faith in what the Guru says, then automatically well do that.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed away in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, 30 years after. Then? I am getting mercy of Guru. This is vani. Even if Guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.
Sudama: So there is no question of ever separation as long as the disciple follows the instructions of Guru.
Srila Prabhupada: No. Cakhu-dano-dilo-jei. What is the next one?
Sudama: Cakhu-dano-dilo-jei, janme janme prabhu sei.
Srila Prabhupada: Janme janme prabhu sei. So where there is separation? Who has opened your eyes, he is birth after birth your prabhu.
(Room conversation, 21/7/75)

Sri Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramatma [Supersoul] in everyones heart and the benefactor of the
truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted.
(Suta Gosvami - Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.17)

> wondering what exactly the scriptures say to begin with.

Therefore commentaries.

> But you may also like chanting and eating prasadam.

Sure. Personal preferences of various services are normal.

> Religious people sometimes seem to come from the position that whatever a person likes, is irrelevant, wrong, bad. As if it would be completely impossible that someone could like spiritual activities, and as if spiritual life would be all about doing that which one would rather not do.

That refers to the dos and donts level. If thats all a group or a tradition offers, its surely not very attractive.

> Just because someone goes by his likes, does not necessarily mean that he is doing something wrong, something adharmic.

Whats adharmic is specified.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]> wondering what exactly the scriptures say to begin with.

[br]Therefore commentaries.[/quote]

No, I meant since there is so much confusion and dispute over the various editions, how can one know which edition is the right one, the authoritative one.[br]

Or is it expected that each devotee will do a text-critical etc. study of all the editions, and then make a decision based on that study?[br]
And that whenever a devotee claims that this or that edition is the authoritative one, this is to be understood that this devotee underwent a rigorous text-critical study of all the editions?[br]

[br][quote]> Just because someone goes by his likes, does not necessarily mean that he is doing something wrong, something adharmic.

[br]Whats adharmic is specified.[/quote]

You said earlier: "Choosing what one likes is a symptom of heresy"[br]
Why would it follow that going by ones likes necessarily constitutes heresy? Is it impossible that ones likes and dislikes are in line with the Dharma?

The confusion is dispelled at a closer look. For editions of SPs books the background info is available at bbtedit.com.
BBT will sooner or later do textcritical edition of its major books. Otherwise itll be done by someone else.

When dharma rules prescribe something and one chooses only a part of that its a heretical approach. Eg. theres a no meat eating rule. If someone starts to preach that certain meat at certain situation, etc. is ok, thats heresy.

If you think of a specific case where you think it doesnt apply, tell us.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]The confusion is dispelled at a closer look. For editions of SPs books the background info is available at bbtedit.com.[/quote]

How should I reason, what should I do when I am approached (and criticized) by devotees who claim that this or that edition is the only right one and all others are bogus?[br]

[br]There are some posters like that here at the forum too. When they talk in such a tone, I have the impression that doing some study of the various editions, or choosing one and working with it in good faith _simply is not good enough_. As if I should have omniscience or special insight, or follow those devotees simply because they demand so of me. I have found this dynamic to be very frustrating.[br]

[br][quote]When dharma rules prescribe something and one chooses only a part of that its a heretical approach. Eg. theres a no meat eating rule. If someone starts to preach that certain meat at certain situation, etc. is ok, thats heresy.[/quote]

So it is the partiality/selectivity inherent to likes and dislikes that makes for an adharmic/heretic approach - and this is what makes going by ones likes and dislikes a slippery slope, even if those likes and dislikes may be in line with the Dharma?[br]

[br]Case in point: A senior devotee once said that the reason we should refrain from eating meat is because Srila Prabhupada told us so, not because we wouldnt like meat. And similar for other dos and donts.
[br]I dont eat meat because I dont like it. So when refraining from eating meat, I am in effect acting in line with a dharmic instruction. But my motivation for not eating meat is that I dont like it, not because I had respect for dharmic instructions.[br]
So my refraining from eating meat is actually problematic, isnt it?[br]

Did you already go thru bbtedit.com? It gives really simple explanations of the book production history. You can simply refer others to that site. If you have any related questions, feel free to ask.

For a follower, the gurus order is more important than ones own likes and dislikes. And the order needs to be also in harmony with sastra and sadhu.

If what you (dont) do is also prescribed (forbidden) by dharma - which you may not know at the beginning - then everything is ok.
Problematic is when one knows what to do and still does (and esp. preaches) something else, impervious to logic and gss.

Yes, thank you, I have checked out bbtedit.com. I am finding it comforting that such a site exists. I will refer others to it.

I think there is a bigger problem with going by ones likes and dislikes - even if in effect they are in line with the dharma. Namely, if one considers oneself (ones likes and dislikes) as the ultimate authority on what to do and what not to do, this sooner or later becomes frustrating and one will find oneself unable to consistently act in accord with ones values, or will feel alienated, the values will begin to seem wrong.
I know this from experience.

Only questions that has been asked before and answered before can be asked. If you ask any other question there is obviously something very very wrong with you and your question. There are doctors for these things you know.

>Only questions that has been asked before and answered before can be asked. If you ask any other question there is obviously something very very wrong with you and >your question. There are doctors for these things you know.

Humans ask questions but buffaloes dont. Buffaloes can sit for the whole day and chew grass without asking a question. Can you make a buffalo feel bored?

Buffalo is bored with thing he does not understand.

Buffaloes dont understand most of the things but they dont get bored but humans they get bored. Have you tried to make buffalo feel bored?

How do you know bufalloes dont understand things?

Perhaps they do understand, but for some reason, they refuse to communicate it with you and some other people?

Without putting the knowledge into practice, its lost. (Niti sastra 8.8)
So neither buffalos nor humans can keep it this way...

>How do you know bufalloes dont understand things?

If they will understand, perhaps they will walk on two legs like us. There are thousands of buffaloes but no one has ever tried to walk on two legs like humans. May be they will not be successful but at least its worth trying. Perhaps they all are afraid that other buffaloes will laugh at him so no one ever tries. Or they will try to become civilized like humans if they will understand things. At least one of them would collect the courage and try.

Yes indeed, and where do all the calculators go...why to calculator heaven of course...

Humans just die, some fool made up the idea that some humans go to heaven just to stop them all going mad! LMAO!

If one cant have a laugh at the bufalloes expense then for what use is a buffallo after all!

Humorous conversation - tickerlish

Okay you got me, I was not talking about animals.