Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

harinama means the name of Krishna.
sankirtana means glorying Krishna all together - kirtana in reunion
going out chanting and/or distributing books is sankirtana, not harinama, but you can also say harinama sankirtana for the chanting and book sankirtana.
In a personal note, I do not like advocating slang changes as normal and acceptable.
The worst: portraying Srila Prabhupada as a "member" of ISKCON. Not so subtle belittling of our savior and acharya. Perhaps its another inevitable "trend"? Beware.

Another institutional quirk.

Narottama dasa Thakura: goloker premadhana, harinama-sankirtana...

The books really need some editing then, theres mistakes all through them:

From SB introduction:

But Lord Caitanya asked His followers to disobey the orders of the Kazi, and they went on with their sauc0u7749 ku299 rtana (chanting) party as usual.

From CC. Adi17:

When the sau7749 ku299 rtana movement thus started, no one in Navadvu299 pa could hear any sound other than the words '93Hari! Hari!'94 and the beating of the mrdau7749 ga and clashing of hand bells.

Lord Caitanya ordered, '93Go peform sau7749 ku299 rtana! Today I shall kill all the Muslims!'94

"In the evening I shall perform sau7749 ku299 rtana in each and every town. Therefore you should all decorate the city in the evening.

From CC. Madhya11:

When the tumultuous vibration of sau7749 ku299 rtana resounded, all good fortune immediately awakened, and the sound penetrated the whole universe through the fourteen planetary systems.

When the congregational chanting began, ecstatic love immediately overflooded everything, and all the residents of Jagannu257 tha Puru299 came running.

Everyone was astonished to see such a performance of sau7749 ku299 rtana, and they all agreed that never before had ku299 rtana been so performed and ecstatic love of God so exhibited.

As the circumambulation was performed, the four ku299 rtana parties sang in front and in the rear. When u346 ru299 Caitanya Mahu257 prabhu fell down to the ground, u346 ru299 Nityu257 nanda Ru257 ya Prabhu lifted Him up.

While ku299 rtana was going on, there was a transformation of ecstatic love and much tears, jubilation, trembling, perspiration and deep resounding in the body of u346 ru299 Caitanya Mahu257 prabhu. Upon seeing this transformation, all the people present became very much astonished.

Such are the symptoms of pure devotees when they are chanting. All the pure devotees are as bright as sunshine, and their bodily luster is very effulgent. In addition, their performance of sau7749 ku299 rtana is unparalleled.

'93I have never before seen such ecstatic love, nor heard the vibration of the holy name of the Lord chanted in such a way, nor seen such dancing during sau7749 ku299 rtana.'94

Because the temple of Lord Jagannu257 tha is situated at Jagannu257 tha Puru299 , many devotees from all parts of the world came to perform sau7749 ku299 rtana in glorification of the Lord. All these devotees were certainly seen and heard by Mahu257 ru257 ja Pratu257 parudra, but he herein admits that the ku299 rtana performed by the associates of the Lord was unique. He had never before heard such sau7749 ku299 rtana nor seen such attractive features manifest by the devotees. The members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness should go to India during the birthday ceremony of Lord Caitanya Mahu257 prabhu at Mu257 yu257 pura and perform sau7749 ku299 rtana congregationally. This will attract the attention of all the important personalities in India, just as the beauty, bodily luster and sau7749 ku299 rtana performance by the associates of u346 ru299 Caitanya Mahu257 prabhu attracted the attention of Mahu257 ru257 ja Pratu257 parudra.

There were altogether seven parties of sau7749 ku299 rtana, and in each party two men were beating drums. Thus fourteen drums were being played at once. The sound was tumultuous, and all the devotees became mad.

When the sau7749 ku299 rtana resounded, it filled the three worlds. Indeed, no one could hear mundane sounds or musical instruments other than the sau7749 ku299 rtana.

Lord Jagannu257 tha was very pleased by the sau7749 ku299 rtana, and He brought His car to a standstill just to see the performance.

King Pratu257 parudra also was astonished to see the sau7749 ku299 rtana. He became inactive and was converted to ecstatic love of Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a.

> So its not actually to be confused with sankirtan? Harinam actually means going out in public and loosely doing things in Haris name?

Strictly speaking, if you congregationally chant Lord Haris names publically or privately, that is harinam sankirtan. Any other activity is another activity and noramlly has another name. For example if I chant Lord Haris name individually, that is called japa.

Harinam means haris name.

Sankirtan means congregational chanting.

So, Harinam sankirtan means the congregational chanting of haris name. Sankirtan is the proper word, not harinam.

OK so sankirtan is correct. Why the change to Harinam then?

I can find literally dozens of sites refering to it as harinam and even have harinam in their url but no mention of sankirtan. What is the reasoning for this?

It seems to me its some kind of common use devotional slang or colloquialism which due to constant use has eroded the knowledge and use of the correct/consistent standard. How many times have we heard or said, "Are you coming on harinam?" Its the same as saying devotees are doing sankirtan when they are in fact selling paintings, stickers, (or as in the case of one sannyasi who comes here to collect, chocolates.) or collecting for the poor.

> What is the reasoning for this?

Just popular and constant usage. That is how slang or colloquial sayings appear in any culture. Whether it is a good thing or not I suspect is the actual purpose of your question, no?

No, I just wanted to know why. Its obviously incorrect usage, but I thought there may have been a reason for it other than just laziness/ignorance/slang.

>Its the same as saying devotees are doing sankirtan when they are in fact selling paintings, stickers, (or as in the case of one sannyasi who comes here to collect, chocolates.) or collecting for the poor.

So its not actually to be confused with sankirtan? Harinam actually means going out in public and loosely doing things in Haris name?

At least in CZ, these two words nowadays refer to two different things:
harinam=public singing of mahamantra, sankirtan=distribution of SPs books

Like I said in my original post. Its an institutional quirk. Just like adding the extra r in Lord Nrsingas name.

So after 500 years of Sankirtan meaning congregational chanting, it now doesnt.

What will Harinama or Sankirtana mean in another 30 years?

Mung, language changes but "Harinam sankirtan" still means what it meant 500 years ago, spreading the name of Hari. So if part of this term is used to denote new phenomena of book distribution, whats the problem?

The problem is the loose standard and unnecessary changes ISKCON endorses.

ISKCON endorses? Who in ISKCON?

Changes do happen, necessary or unecessary, as time goes. Some will prove sucessful, some not. The main thing is to continue in harinam and sankirtan. Thats the essence.

Trying to conserve the situation as it was 30 years ago for the rest of Kali yuga is not the solution. Unless we want to become a skansen like Amish. That wasnt the mood of Srila Prabhupada.

"We should always be eager to find out such nice ways to spread this Movement. This will automatically bring joy to the devotees as well as to the nondevotees." (letter to: Jagadisa -- Bombay 17 November, 1970)

"Sankirtana means preaching, so for some time try in other ways to spread our Krishna philosophy anywhere and everywhere, by selling books, as many as possible, by holding kirtana and classes in schools and college--wherever there is preaching, that is Sankirtana. You have an American brain, now use it to think of new ways to preach in Japan." (letter to: Sudama -- Delhi 20 November, 1971)

Actually when we jioned we were practically instructed according to our unique Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada preaching favour......,sankirtan means complete glorification which incorporates all devotional preaching , paraphenalia laxmi collection activities and even devotees working in normal jobs.Who also sacrifice everything to serve guru and krishna! While harinam is singularly chanting in the street.This was the practical implementation of srila Prabhupadas demons and devotees mood .....coupled with the yukta vairagya mood.Hence preaching success was acheived within the uniquely unfavourable demoniac western preaching environment. Such surrendered devotees also were keenly adept at doing everything in a completely enthusiastic attitude and slightly aggressive do or die mentality which was symptomatic of this soldier like mood.Hence narayanna maharajas flavour of preaching has been unable to acheive the same preaching results as a consequence!

Such unique mood and flavour of preaching enable a non-envious spirit to bloom amongst the preachers....wether merely householders engaged in their jobs or book distributers or even the paraphenalia sankirtan devotees who historically created the financial substance necessary to maintain $20,000 dollar a week temples!Naturally then huge temples were created when$ 500,000 dollar christmas marathons resulted in such wealth being available for krishnas preaching pleasure!

>ISKCON endorses? Who in ISKCON?

...

"Sankirtana means preaching, so for some time try in other ways to spread our Krishna philosophy anywhere and everywhere, by selling books, as many as possible, by holding kirtana and classes in schools and college--wherever there is preaching, that is Sankirtana. You have an American brain, now use it to think of new ways to preach in Japan." (letter to: Sudama -- Delhi 20 November, 1971)

Anyone in ISKCON endorses it by continuing to use Harinam where Sankirtan is correct.

The irony of you using that quote is palatable. Nowhere in it does he use the term Harinam, its all Sankirtana.

SGD: Harinam means Haris name. Sankirtan means congregational chanting.

Please forgive me if I sound abrupt or rude. I am very glad to have somewhere to discuss these things.

> Anyone in ISKCON endorses it by continuing to use Harinam where Sankirtan is correct.

Srila Prabhupada considered himself a member of ISKCON so hes one of anyone in ISKCON:

So I am confident of the statement of Srila Haridasa Thakura that the transcendental sound of Lord Caitanyas Harinama can do good even to the birds and the beasts. (letter to Tirtha Maharaja, 4 Feb 1966, New York)

> "Sankirtana means preaching..."

Please share with us what kind of sankirtana, direct or indirect, are you doing if youre so focused on following SPs instructions. Actions speak louder than words.

Wow you found a quote of him using Harinam. Well done, thats all I need.

My own personal preaching efforts are minuscule, I distribute a few Gitas and Higher Tastes to friends and try to explain certain aspects of Krsna Consciousness.

Kirtana - means chanting or singing, sankirtana - doing it together, nama-sankirtana is chanting of the name, harinama-sankirtana is the very specific description of the process. More specific is nagar-harinama-sankirtana (because harinama can me private as well). Nothing wrong with harinama, the problem is when they ask: are you a sankirtan devotee or are you doing harinamas? (meaning are you selling stickers or not).

Where are stickers sold during harinamas?

I know a brahmacari who goes out on the street to play and sing. He sits in the street, and next to him is a book case, with Srila Prabhupadas books, incense, cds, a small basket for donations, a set of karatals, and pamphlets for the local nama-hatta group. (I havent seen stickers or photos/pictures so far.)

People who walk past hear the holy names, they can buy books, cds, incense, they can donate money, inform themselves about the religion and the meetings, and are invited to sing and play along.

Such a presentation can thus fulfill several functions. Perhaps it is because of this multiplicity that there arose confusion over the words like harinam, sankirtan, and possibly others?

Originally all devotees were doing it combined. But later (in some places) -- sankirtana became raising money, and harinama became a once a month non-profit event. Yes, originally sankirtana (selling btgs) was done together with harinama-sankirtana. Later on sankirtana traveling parties became more and more specialized in selling, ending up in stickers sankirtana. Anyway, the times are gone I guess.

borokrsnadasa: You speak about US, dont you? US is not the whole world (although some Americans seriously think so).

US, AU, NZ (yes not CZ;-)

Afaik, AU and NZ in recent years got rid of these practices. They sound like a relic from Zonal Acarya era. Anyone can confirm?
In Europe straight book distribution is done. If some devotees sell paraphernalia like Indian paintings, they do it separately from ISKCON.

The Hare Krishna food tent I see every year at a music festival in Tasmania had roughly 3x the amount of knick knacks to books and devotional paraphernalia. Heaps of bracelets and ornamental things like elephants. They had about 5 sets of chanting beads and bags, a lot of poor quality incense and some books. $35 for a 1972 Gita was a pretty big ripoff, considering I got a case of 20 delivered to my door for $7 a piece.

No smile stickers or indian paintings though!

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]At least in CZ, these two words nowadays refer to two different things:
harinam=public singing of mahamantra, sankirtan=distribution of SPs books[/quote] It was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Srila Prabhupada who initiated the use of the term Sankirtan for book distribution.

The chanting process offered by Lord Caitanya for achieving love of God is called sauc0u110 u775 ku299 rtana. Sau110 u775 ku299 rtana is a Sanskrit word. Sam means samyak'97"complete." And ku299 rtana means "glorifying" or "describing." So complete description means complete glorification of the Supreme, or the Supreme Complete Whole. It is not that one can describe anything or glorify anything and that will be ku299 rtana. From the grammatical point of view that may be ku299 rtana, but according to the Vedic system, ku299 rtana means describing the supreme authority, the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called ku299 rtana.

To use everything in krishnas service is not complete glorification of sri krishna ?Recently our temple performed yagnas for our congregations general benefit and to help their creation of wealth to support iskcon!Since we no longer have sankirtan devotees .....only congregation donations to maintain the temple!Our management is truly convinced such yagnas are sanctioned by Raghunatha das goswami and according to his direction they performed a wonderful exciting 5 pit yagna for everyones benefit!Very vedic and obviously pleasing to sri krishna chaitanya mahaprabhu!Krishna was the centre and so was the chanting!....In my opinion it was complete glorification!

Yeah, no sankirtan devotees, lets so some punya driven activities. Instead you should just ask all of devotees there to do sankirtan once a month, that is a better yajna to satisfy yajnapurusa in this age.

[quote][cite] sri_govinda_das:[/cite]To use everything in krishnas service is not complete glorification of sri krishna ?Recently our temple performed yagnas for our congregations general benefit and to help their creation of wealth to support iskcon!Since we no longer have sankirtan devotees .....only congregation donations to maintain the temple!Our management is truly convinced such yagnas are sanctioned by Raghunatha das goswami and according to his direction they performed a wonderful exciting 5 pit yagna for everyones benefit!Very vedic and obviously pleasing to sri krishna chaitanya mahaprabhu!Krishna was the centre and so was the chanting!....In my opinion it was complete glorification![/quote]

harer nuc0u257 ma harer nu257 ma
harer nu257 maiva kevalam
kalau nu257 sty eva nu257 sty eva
nu257 sty eva gatir anyathu257

'93For spiritual progress in this age of Kali, there is no alternative, no alternative, no alternative to the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord.'94

34. '93What Is ISKCON?'94
When Srila Prabhupada visited Hawaii, he had to deal with controversial persons who claimed to be his followers and yet denounced the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Prabhupada wanted to encourage everyone to go on chanting Hare Krishna, yet at the same time he wanted to clearly establish that his sincere follower works within ISKCON. The questions and answers after his lectures in Hawaii often dealt with these matters.
'93What is ISKCON?'94 asked a long-haired beach boy wearing a japa beadbag.
'93ISKCON?'94 Srila Prabhupada replied. '93It is a simple thing. You do not know?'94 Then he described what each letter in the acronym ISKCON stood for. '93We have a worldwide society, so we say international.'94
'93Well, are you ISKCON?'94 the boy asked. This was a loaded question. The devotees had been preaching that Srila Prabhupada was ISKCON because one cannot refuse service to ISKCON and yet claim to serve Srila Prabhupada. But the anti-ISKCON party had argued that Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON were different. Prabhupada was pure and transcendental; ISKCON was corrupt, a mere organization.
Srila Prabhupada started to laugh. '93I am not ISKCON,'94 he said. '93I am a member of ISKCON.'94 Then he looked at his disciple who was the GBC secretary for Hawaii. Prabhupada pointed at him and said, '93And he is a member of ISKCON.'94 Then he pointed to the ISKCON Hawaii temple president. '93And he is a member of ISKCON. We are all members of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.'94 Almost everyone present cried out, '93Jaya!'94 Then Srila Prabhupada looked back, smiling. There was no further challenge to his perfect, humble reply.
Praghosha dasa, interview. (SDG, SP Nectar 1-34)

this deserves another thread. :)

Sankirtan was personally suggested by my guru as complete glorification ......as using everything in krishnas service.,he was a advocate of using women ,children,wealth and all manner of so called material assets to please krishnas senses.His mood was personally passed on to him by Srila Prabhupada whom he served intimately.
Harinam was seen as kirtan in the streets .....both are uniquely different in nature,but are meant to be utilized for krishna complete glorification.

[quote][cite] bhakti das:[/cite]Sankirtan was personally suggested by my guru as complete glorification ......as using everything in krishnas service.,he was a advocate of using women ,children,wealth and all manner of so called material assets to please krishnas senses.His mood was personally passed on to him by Srila Prabhupada whom he served intimately.
Harinam was seen as kirtan in the streets .....both are uniquely different in nature,but are meant to be utilized for krishna complete glorification.[/quote]

Hi SGD