Is there certain standards for initiation and re-initiation within the gaudiya matha!
Philosophy · asked by user [] · 2010-02-22 · 4 answers
Just read these possibly extreme interpretation of gaudiya matha initiation ....and reinitiation policies.....is this standard behaviour?Especially Veda Prabhu could you help me ....but please ...anyone genuine with experience or just the accepted understanding! ........ Standards for initiation Hari Sauri 3/31/97 7:54 AM Letter:
"Yesterday Jayapataka, B. Caru, B. Swarup Damodar, Lokanath and myself went to visit BV Puri Maharaja at his matha, just next to our land. Narayana M. arrived with three others unexpectedly. He had not been invited but showed up of his own accord. JP had already gone back to our temple but the rest of us stayed on.
There were some real fireworks. Puri M. immediately told Narayana Maharaja that we were complaining about his initiating people from ISKCON. Narayana Maharaja became very hot and agitated and defensive. He vehemently denied initiating anyone from ISKCON....
Guru Kripa was there. He challenged Narayana Maharaja that Prabhupada has set the standard for preaching all around the world [16 rounds/day, six month minimum probation period before initiation, etc.] but he (Narayana Maharaja) is violating that by initiating people the very first time he sees them without knowing anything about them. Narayana Maharaja denied he was initiating anyone without recommendations etc.
But GKs own stepdaughter was initiated by him after only one day. GK caught him out in a lie, and he didnt like it. He shouted, "I am not under your rules. I am not ISKCON, I am Gaudiya Math!." He repeatedly denied he was initiating any ISKCON devotees. I asked him, "Maharaja, when you initiated people in Australia, where did they come from?" He couldnt answer."
"Yesterday Jayapataka, B. Caru, B. Swarup Damodar, Lokanath and myself went to visit BV Puri Maharaja at his matha, just next to our land. Narayana M. arrived with three others unexpectedly. He had not been invited but showed up of his own accord. JP had already gone back to our temple but the rest of us stayed on.
There were some real fireworks. Puri M. immediately told Narayana Maharaja that we were complaining about his initiating people from ISKCON. Narayana Maharaja became very hot and agitated and defensive. He vehemently denied initiating anyone from ISKCON....
Guru Kripa was there. He challenged Narayana Maharaja that Prabhupada has set the standard for preaching all around the world [16 rounds/day, six month minimum probation period before initiation, etc.] but he (Narayana Maharaja) is violating that by initiating people the very first time he sees them without knowing anything about them. Narayana Maharaja denied he was initiating anyone without recommendations etc.
But GKs own stepdaughter was initiated by him after only one day. GK caught him out in a lie, and he didnt like it. He shouted, "I am not under your rules. I am not ISKCON, I am Gaudiya Math!." He repeatedly denied he was initiating any ISKCON devotees. I asked him, "Maharaja, when you initiated people in Australia, where did they come from?" He couldnt answer."
user [38] · 2010-02-23
This is also in Standards for initiation section in Understanding Narayana Maharaja compilation by Urmila dd I referred to earlier. It continues:Jayapataka Maharaja, '93To Hear or Not to Hear, that is the question'94, March 28, 2001:
'93I had some disciples and I consented that they could accept siksa from Narayana Maharaja but instead of siksa Narayana Maharaja gave them re initiation.'94
Suhotra Swami:
'93In Holland, where Brahma-rata dasa solicited many congregational members to see Narayana Maharaja, there were seventeen initiations, a number after the initiates had come for only one or two days. Some of these persons didnt realize the significance of their actions, and many dont follow the four regulative principles.'94
Sivarama Swami:
'93In Leicester, I learned from the temple president that Narayana Maharaja planned to initiate two congregational members who were completely unqualified. I faxed Narayana Maharaja and asked him to desist. When the temple president delivered the letter, Narayana Maharaja replied, We do not want to create trouble with ISKCON, from which I inferred that he would respect my request. Then he said, But giving a name and mala I do for children, and consequently he went down and did the initiation anyway.'94
This last sentence is significant since it shows different concept of harinama initiation by NM from SP.
> He shouted, "I am not under your rules. I am not ISKCON, I am Gaudiya Math!."
as opposite to:
'93Your Prabhupada, Srila Swami Maharaja, only changed the name into English. He is not the founder-acarya of that eternal ISKCON'85 I am ISKCON. Im not different from ISKCON. (Murwillumbah, Australia: Feb. 18, 2002 eve)
user [459] · 2010-02-23
What follows is but a partial sampling of devotees who were initiated by ISKCON gurus in good standing but who have rejected their ISKCON guru and instead taken shelter of Srila Narayana Maharaja. Several of these devotees have personally informed their ISKCON guru that they have left him and have clearly stated that they have now taken re-initiation from Srila Narayana Maharaja:Gopal Krishna Maharaja: Parasurama dasa, Parasara Muni dasa, Ramacandra dasa, Pavana dasa
Jayapataka Swami: Vicitra Vasini dasi
Satsvarupa Maharaja: Navadvipa dasa, Narmada dasi, Jagannatha Krishna dasa
Indradyumna Maharaja: Abhaya Mudra dasi
Tamal Krishna Maharaja: RadhasTami dasa
Krishna dasa Swami: Ayodhyapati dasa
Bir Krishna Goswami: Bhakti lata dd
Madhusevita das: Keli-parayana das, Mahalakshmi d.d., Gaura-pournima d.d.
Vipramukhya Swami: Syamananda dasa
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, March 1968, letter to Hrsikesha:
"I am greatly surprised for Bon Maharajas initiating you in spite of his knowing that you are already initiated by me. So it is deliberate transgression of Vaisnava etiquette and otherwise a deliberate insult to me.
I do not know why he has done like this but no Vaisnava will approve of this offensive-action. NARAYANNA MAHARAJAS ACTIONS HERE CAN POSSIBLY BE EXPLAINED BY HIS OWN WORDS! ..... Narayana Maharaja Murwillumbah, Australia: Feb. 15, 2002 (Evening, Part 1):
"If the guru is following all the principles of bhakti, if he is in the line of his gurudeva, if he is chanting and remembering but he is not learned enough to give you Krishna-tattva, then dont give him up. With honor for him, take his permission, and go with his permission to associate with exalted Vaisnavas. And, if he does not give permission, you can consider that he is also among the kan-gurus meant for being given up."
user [149] · 2010-02-23
> This last sentence is significant since it shows different concept of harinama initiation by NM from SP.Not neccesarily so. The following lecture (September 26, 1974) indicates that Srila Prabhupada also considered initiation can occur quickly, ("...after some days...)," and then the initiate is accepted as a bona-fide disciple at second initiation. DOnt take my word for it, you can read it yourself:
"First of all they come in the temple and hear for some days. Then all of a sudden he becomes shaven-headed. We havent to request. He takes a bead and bead bag, although hes not initiated. Then, after some days, he approaches, "Please get me initiated." The bhajana-kriy'e4. This is called bhajana-kriy'e4. So we initiate. "Yes, now you are interested, we initiate." We give him hari-n'e4ma: "Chant Hare K'e5'f1'eba mantra." This is the first initiation. "And chant sixteen rounds and observe these rules and regulations." Then, when I see, six months or one year, hes doing very nicely, then we accept him as my disciple, the second initiation. So this is bhajana-kriy'e4. "
> Narayana Maharaja planned to initiate two congregational members who were completely unqualified.
This goes on in ISKCON too. I have seen people initiated by ISKCON gurus simply because they were getting married to a devotee. Especially in India it is common for example that a wife will get initiated by a guru simply becuse the husband is an initiated disciple.
To throw something else into the mix, I also know a godbrother who got approval from the GBC to take second initiation from a different guru than his diksha guru, the reason being that he had lost faith in his diksha guru (who was still in good standing). This devotee argued his case with the GBC using precedent examples and they gave approval.
user [38] · 2010-02-23
> "And chant sixteen rounds and observe these rules and regulations."This is - and should remain - the difference.