Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

First was a pregnant hen ;-)

References available on request=)

The request is already included. :)

I would really like to see those references, though. :)

Just now coming... tasminn ande bhavad brahm'e4 sarva-loka-pit'e4mahah

Hmm. Two points:

- exact ref. is missing. Manu samhita:

M1.09a/ tad aNDam abhavadd) haimaM sahasraaMzusama.prabham |
M1.09c/ tasmiJ jajJe) svayaM brahmaa sarvalokapitaamahaH ||

- It refers to jagad-anda, egg-shaped cosmos. We talk about hen/egg, i.e. birds.

Whos next? :)

It appears to be a relevant enough inquiry:

"The preliminary understanding of ones identity as consciousness is called self-realization. [b]But beyond this elementary knowledge is the elaborate subject matter of how the soul came to exist within the cycle of 8,400,000 material species of life.[/b]"
[br]
http://vedabase.net/sb/11/3/21/[br]

[br]Perhaps the point could be argued that since the 8,400,000 species are part of material nature, and material nature is eternal, there is no linear beginning identifiable for the beginning of a species - in the sense that we could say "first was an egg and then the hen".[br]

[br]On a sidenote, in the Biblical account, Adam and Eve appear as adults capable of reproduction, not as helpless fetuses or newborns.[br]By this reasoning, if first there somehow appeared an egg, who would hatch it and raise it, as there would be no chicken mother? That wouldnt make sense, unless we get very creative and presume that God appeared as a hen to that first chicken and raised it and so on ...

> Perhaps the point could be argued that since the 8,400,000 species are part of material nature, and material nature is eternal, there is no linear beginning identifiable for the beginning of a species - in the sense that we could say "first was an egg and then the hen".

Well, sarga is described in detail...

> By this reasoning, if first there somehow appeared an egg, who would hatch it and raise it, as there would be no chicken mother?

yep

this is so clear, come on. The hen was first because... oh wait!

I am thinking that we would first need to find out why the hen and egg question is being asked, why is it formulated the way it is, what its assumptions and implications are, and what is hoped to be accomplished by answering it.
Then we may get a better idea of what to look for in scriptures.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Hare Krishna.

The question arises because we a born into darkest ignorance. Our minds and bodies develop and we become aware of cause and effect so the question automatically comes to those who have taken human forms. Recomended questions are "Who am I? Why am i suffering? How can i make an end to all my suffering?" and "If my father has a father and his father had a father and so on and so on, who is the original or first father?" Unless we are humble enough and fortunate enough to place such inquiries before Sri Guru, the bona fide representative of God, or read the bona fide unchanged Vaisnava shastras recorded by Mahabhagavatas like His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, the answer will not be clear nor beneficial. The question really deals with creation, which is described by the Lord Himself in His own words. In Srimad Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Bhagavan Sri Krishna says, "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds, everything emanates from Me."1 Spiritually, the first or original form is not an egg or seed, He is a fully formed Divine Being. "Although I am the maintainer of all living entities, and although I am everywhere, still My Self is the very source of creation."2 "At the creation, the material energy is let loose as mahat-tattva, into which the Lord as His first Purusha incarnation enters" Then Sri Maha Vishnu lies down in the Casual Ocean and manifests innumerable universes when He breathes out (when He breathes in, He draws them into Himself again). During the manifested stage, entering into each universe as Sri Garbodakshayi Vishnu, He lies down and manifests a lotus flower from His navel. Upon that lotus flower, fully-formed Lord Brahma sits, in darkest ignorance. Through undergoing tapasya, Lord Visnu reveals everything to him in his heart and he begins the process of creation of material bodies, etc.for the eternal spiritual souls, rays of Lord Visnus effulgence (us) to temporarily inhabit. "It is not that all is evolved. The different species of life are created immediately along with the universe. Men, animals, beasts, birds--everything is simultaniously created, because whatever desires the living entities had at the last annihilation are again manifested" Purport Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 9 verse 8.

"Lord Krishna is the source of all generations, and He is called the most efficient cause of everything. He says, "Because everything is born of Me, I am the original source of all. Everything is under Me; no one is above Me." There is no supreme controller other than Krishna. One who understands Krishna in such a way from a bona fide spiritual master, with references from Vedic literature, engages all his energy in Krishna consciousness and becomes a truly learned man. In comparison to him, all others, who do not know Krishna properly, are but fools. Only a fool would consider Krishna to be an ordinary man. A Krishna conscious person should not be bewildered by fools; he should avoid all unauthorized commentaries and interpretations on Bhagavad-gita and proceed in Krishna consciousness with determination and firmness."BG AII 10.8 purport

Sri Isopanishad Invocation:

ouc0u7743 pu363 ru7751 am adau7717 pu363 ru7751 am idau7743
pu363 ru7751 u257 t pu363 ru7751 am udacyate
pu363 ru7751 asya pu363 ru7751 am u257 du257 ya
pu363 ru7751 am evu257 vau347 iu7779 yate

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

1Srimad Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 10, text 8
2 Srimad Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 7, text 4

maah, I confer on you the prize for the longest offtopic entry.

"Brevity is the sister of talent." (A.P. uc0u268 echov)

> if first there somehow appeared an egg, who would hatch it and raise it, as there would be no chicken mother?

Mahapita Brahamji raised so many exalted offspring who didnt have a mother to raise them, so Im sure a chicken would be no problem. luc0u299 leyau109 u769 hari-medhasahu803 : in the matter of creation, Lord Brahma has intelligence like Lord Hari. (Bhagavatam 3.10.18) He can accomplish practically anything just by desiring it.

Deena, youre on the right track.

It is said that living entities appear in the material world in four ways:

"There are four types of living entities born within this material world. Some are born by way of an embryo (jaruc0u257 yu ja), by way of eggs (anu803 du803 a ja), perspiration (sveda ja) and, like the trees, by way of seeds (udbhijja)."
http://vedabase.net/sb/4/24/64/

I couldnt find any statement that would clairfy whether a paritcular species always appears only in one way, but not another. Are humans always born by way of an embryo, or can they take birth in another way as well? And chicken - are they always born by way of an egg?

Therere some special cases of rishis not born from embryo. Never heard about chicken born any other way than from eggs.

Veda - You know the answer, dont you? 8)

I think it was obvious that he knows. I suspect he ever has a respective quote ready?

Uncle google and auntie wiki know everything. 8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#Theology

Silly me, I have only searched the Vedabase for chicken and eggs, when I should have been looking for the golden grain.

So I was universally right;-)

Veda,were not the different animal,fowl and bird species born from the different demi-goddess impregnated by the prajapatis. Something like that?

Yep, see wiki link.