Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Our matha is keen to appreciate the iskcon success ,we are severely limited financially.Just how you can build huge temples in the usa and australia as iskcon has acheived and created is certainly a huge benediction upon your process and your devotees.Even shows the limitations of even NARAYANNA MAHARAJA,in that he seems intent of taking them,since he also cannot duplicate swami maharajas acheivements!

Would anyone say that more money = bigger preaching and more money = better preaching?

more intelligence = better preaching

compassion = better preaching

Prabhupada: If we keep money, it creates disturbance. I am therefore always insisting, "Print books, Print books." Or construct temple, this building, that building. There is no need of keeping money.

Dh'e5'f1'f6adyumna: You said your Guru Mah'e4r'e4ja used to keep the temples in debt all the time.

Yogendra das AKA SRI_GOVINDA_DAS

Why do always look to turn a really nice thread into a mud slinging match between Iskcon and Narayan Maharaj, this says so much about your mentality. You were banned because of your awful comments, yet you are insistent on popping up like some jack in the box and always with the same banal and trite comments.

Maybe devotees should go out to parks in the cities and chant and preach under trees like Srila Prabupada did. How much would that cost? Probably nothing. When I joined the local Iskcon temple it was so poor we went to the local markets on a Saturday and pulled out Pumpkins that were rotten on one side, we would cut off the bad end and the other side was perfectly good. We fed 200 people prasadam for 40-50 bucks which we collected in the streets by asking for donations with old back to god head magazines in the streets as we chanted and sang...aye those were the days :)

Personally I think big bucks gets in the way of true devotion, Srila Prabhupada could handle it because he was so pure, but we have seen so much money abuse in Iskcon. I joined because it was poor, pure and simple, even austere. The austerity attracted me, I gave the temple everything, sold all my possessions, gave them everything in my bank accounts, i was stripped of all my possessions and the feeling was so awesome.

At the time the temple was preaching to poor university students, and thats where most of the devotees were made. Then when they got money they moved uptown to preach to the rich...and guess what?...we made no devotees there!

Money is always needed in some form or other. The question is priorities.

Is your priority to give prasadam, the Holy Name, the philosophy? Then you do that with whatever money you have or no money.

Like the example manasi_seva is giving: you can get vegetables from the leftovers and cook them to prasadam, and chanting does not cost you a dime.

Problem is vaishya mentality: I need money for that, so I have to charge Sunday Feast etc, etc. Then material consciousness and problems come in.

Brahmins prioritize preaching and money is secondary, so they "let" magic happen.

Personally, I run a preaching center and it cost me the same as its the big flat were I anyway live (rented). Sunday feast cost me about 50 bucks which eventually pay themselves with donations and extra effort on my part slowly but surely gets picked up by voluntary happy workers coming to the Feast.

By the way, that is real, happy life. :)

Here is an example from a different tradition: Mormon missionaries are people who have worked for several years, and saved enough money for at least two years expenses. A person isnt allowed to go on a preaching mission unless they have enough money saved (I think the number is around 20,000 US Dollars).
Their policy is thus: If you want to preach, bring your own money for it.

They are very self-sufficient in this regard.

i have done an article on temple management which includes money management if anyone cares :)
http://jaganat.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/how-to-open-and-maintain-a-temple/

I made an article about temple management, including money, resources,etc if anyone cares :)
http://jaganat.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/how-to-open-and-maintain-a-temple/

Money must be handled in a very honest and transparent way in religious organizations, or it will destroy that entity. Preaching needs money, no doubt about it, but money requires a good husband.

Yes, keeping temples in debt is great! That is how so many of them were lost...

Well the balance should be there just to keep you awake... but we know that it was also a serious problem of getting way too expensive temples an relying on collections rather than on congregational contributions.

There is a Vedic saying, to the effect of:
Three things should be immediately attended to and remedied: fire, illness and debt.

I found some references:

Prabhupuc0u257 da: Bigger or smaller, it is always dangerous. Big fire or small fire, fire is fire. It will burn. Thats all. In a... Cu257 u7751 akya Pau7751 u7693 ita has given this example: this fire, debt and disease. Never think big or small. They are always dangerous.
http://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?g=161316&h=fire%20debt&f=354164#354164

Prabhupu257 da: So disease, when you are in diseased condition, it means increasing suffering. Disease increases. Without treatment disease increases, as fire, without being extinguished, without attempt of extinguishing the fire, it increases. Debt, compound interest, increases. So therefore the instruction is that disease, fire, and debt should not be kept as it is without any attention. The attention must be there to see that it is not increasing, it is being completely extinguished. That is intelligence.
http://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?g=160890&h=fire%20debt&f=333046#333046

One time Sarasvati Thakura came to Vrndavan in his very nice
"Ambassador" car, with a driver and assisants (Piyari brahmacari and
Krsnananda brahmacari). The two brahmacaris were dressed in three-piece
suits, and Mocha Singh was by his side, dressed very luxuriously, and
brandishing a gun. The Brajabasis said, "This is not the proper way to come to
Vrndavan. You are spoiling the spiritul atmosphere!" Sarasvati Thakura then
replied, "You are all imitating Rupa Goswami. I have not come to imitate him,
but to establish his actual mission. I have come to re-establish the spiritual
atmosphere which has been disturbed by the false imitators.

This wonderful description is symptomatic of the beginings of the unique vision of yukta-vairagya and its application within an orthodox indian cultural setting.I personally found it interesting....especially the bodygaurd and gun! The use of car,servants...dressed in suits...to re-establish the actual mission of Rupa goswami Prabhupada....LAXSMI...is the honey,was our sankirtan logo!

[quote][cite] bhagavan prasada:[/cite]This wonderful description is symptomatic of the beginings of the unique vision of yukta-vairagya and its application within an orthodox indian cultural setting.I personally found it interesting....especially the bodygaurd and gun! The use of car,servants...dressed in suits...to re-establish the actual mission of Rupa goswami Prabhupada....LAXSMI...is the honey,was our sankirtan logo![/quote]
The only question is: Did this strategy actually work? I would say that there were very serious problems in Iskcon created by this so called yukta-vairagya of laxmi is the honey and scamkirtan ways of collecting that money. It polluted a lot of devotees and created very bad taste and very bad propaganda for our movement. We had plenty of money to build opulent temples in India but our kids in gurukulas were eating substandard food. The traditional Vaishnava approach of being extremely careful with regards to using money in spiritual pursuits is absolutely valid.

of course,Srila Prabhupada emphasis was on book distribution not scamkirtan. I think the zonals then virtually scraped books and sankirtan in favour of the pick.
Devotees told me towards the end Prabhupada wanted to de-emphasise expansion in favour of Nama-sankirtan,boiling down the milk. His senior disciples might have deviated in following this instuction also.

[quote][cite] anandahari:[/cite]of course,Srila Prabhupada emphasis was on book distribution not scamkirtan.[/quote] Scamkirtan started very early and there was plenty of it during SP presence. It was not really books that got built all those temples projects in India.

Where can u read or hear SP putting emphases on scamkirtan in all his taped lectures and books? Brhad-mrdanga only!

[quote][cite] anandahari:[/cite]Where can u read or hear SP putting emphases on scamkirtan in all his taped lectures and books? Brhad-mrdanga only![/quote]I did not say he was placing emphasis on scamkirtan, but to his disciples he was also placing emphasis on collecting a lot of money, rewarding best collectors with a lot of his attention, which can be seen as very natural - his movement and his vision definitely required a lot of money to function. Thus one thing led to another. The need for money led to scamkirtan.

[quote] It was not really books that got built all those temples projects in India.[/quote]

Please expand on this statement.

Specifically merchandise sold that wasnt books and authorised by Srila Prabhupada.

[quote][cite] mung:[/cite][quote] It was not really books that got built all those temples projects in India.[/quote]

Please expand on this statement.

Specifically merchandise sold that wasnt books and authorised by Srila Prabhupada.[/quote]

[quote][cite] mung:[/cite][quote] It was not really books that got built all those temples projects in India.[/quote]

Please expand on this statement.

Specifically merchandise sold that wasnt books and authorised by Srila Prabhupada.[/quote]
As Bhagavan Prasada prabhu confirms from his experience ("Yes we did sell paraphenalia....not books because we found it uneconomic") vast majority of funds used to purchase and build temples in Vrindavan and Mayapur in SP time did not come from book sales. I know a great number of devotees who took part in these fundraising efforts and they ranged from regular paraphernalia sales through slightly illegal trademarked merchandise sales to all out nasty stuff you can read about in books like Monkey on a Stick because few devotees want to talk about it nowadays. Actually, later on - during the zonal acharya days - a lot of money for the projects in India did come from book sales, especially in Harikesas zone. I know this first hand because I had a small part in this effort.

In UK - The album sales "Radha Krishna Temple" recorded by Apple (George Harrison). USA also Spiritual Sky business were the income, but at times Manor did not even own a car, Prabhupada had to ride a Used Volkswagen Beetle painted with hippie flowers to ride to Indian Ambassador (to ask for a long term visas for his devotees).

1967 letters to Brahmananda:
"I have arranged for supplying incense with a gentleman here and Im taking samples with me. Similarly Ive arranged for sending spices and frankincense. "

1976:
Gopala Krsna: China they can do books and incense.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gopala Krsna: Hes a Spiritual Sky sales representative or looking into the possibilities of manufacturing incense in China.

1969 letters:

Regarding Spiritual Sky business, I am very happy to learn that it is making very nice progress and you are getting demand. Do it nicely, and as already agreed, you can use the profit exclusively for opening branches. The sales which an individual center makes by selling incense may be employed for temple expenditures. Similarly, Los Angeles also can employ it for this purpose. But so far as Spiritual Sky business is concerned, done by you, this profit should be set aside in a different account reserved for expanding branches....

1976 HSD

At 6:15 p.m. Srila Prabhupada went out for a walk, this time to tour the whole property. A group of about thirty devotees were already waiting for him at the foot of the wide stone staircase that forms the main entrance to the Chateau. Walking steadily in the bright evening sun, Bhagavan prabhu took Prabhupada around the grounds and then to the east of the property to a large factory building nearby. It is being rented from the owner, who used it to manufacture boats and plastics. The devotees now operate Spiritual Sky incense company from it. Sales extend through France, Germany, Holland and Belgium, and last year the business gave $80,000 to the temple.

BTW after 1977 competition became stronger. Painting distribution was introduced in early 80s. Only then temples started to have money;.

"How much does preaching depend on money?"

money ~= Lakshmi. If one makes vaishnava-aparadha - then there is no Radharani. Also no Lakshmi, and no money. But devotional service can be performed in most poverty-stricken condition. How can spiritual depend on material??? Are we becoming materialists and claim life comes from matter, not life comes from life (Krishna)?

"Mercy of Srimati Radharani
Srimati Radharani is the ideal maha-bhagvat. As the greatest devotee, She is also the most compassionate. She is unable to bear the suffering of the souls trapped in the material world. The word '93aradhaya'94 (prayers) is derived from '93Radha'94 and means '93worshippable'94. Similarly the word '93aparadha'94 (offenses) means '93against Radha'94. When one performs devotional service, one is pleasing Srimati Radharani and when commits Vaishnava aparadha against Krishna or His devotees, one is offending Radharani. Srimati Radharani is the guardian, the mentor and the benefactor of all aspiring devotees. When a soul starts to inquire about Krishna, Srimati Radharani is most pleased and takes charge of his devotional advancements. As one makes progress, one continues to invoke the mercy of Srimati Radharani and when She is pleased, Krishna is automatically pleased.

All glories to Srimati Radharani !!"
http://www.girirajji.com/srimati-radha-rani.html

Once I was discussing this subject -that money is not needed, and it (gold) is like yellow stool.
But on other hand I told that one has to donate 50% to God-conscious activities.
So that man was very much laughing: yes, you want donate money which is like yellow stool to church?
(he was discussing some christians who were too much attached to gold etc, especially catholics I guess):

Srimad Bhagavatam 5.14.7
"Sometimes the living entity is interested in the yellow stool known as gold and runs after it. That gold is the source of material opulence and envy, and it can enable one to afford illicit sex, gambling, meat-eating and intoxication. Those whose minds are overcome by the mode of passion are attracted by the color of gold, just as a man suffering from cold in the forest runs after a phosphorescent light in a marshy land, considering it to be fire."
http://vedabase.net/sb/5/14/7/en1
"PURPORT

Parikshit Maharaja told Kali-yuga to leave his kingdom immediately and reside in four places: brothels, liquor shops, slaughterhouses and gambling casinos. However, Kali-yuga requested him to give him only one place where these four places are included, and Parikshit Maharaja gave him the place where gold is stored. Gold encompasses the four principles of sin, and therefore, according to spiritual life, gold should be avoided as far as possible. If there is gold, there is certainly illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. Because people in the Western world have a great deal of gold, they are victims of these four sins. The color of gold is very glittering, and a materialistic person becomes very much attracted by its yellow color. However, this gold is actually a type of stool. A person with a bad liver generally passes yellow stool. The color of this stool attracts a materialistic person, just as the will-o-the-wisp attracts one who needs heat."

P.S. No offense intended (just for fun ;-) )

"What sort of preaching can be done by someone with no money?"

yes it was problem when Prabhupada was told: "if you have money - publish books". And also (I think Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati) once said: we dont need these "expensive marble"(?) in temples - sell them - and publish books. So did in this way... (I dont know full story)