Who/what is a devotee?
Philosophy · asked by user [] · 2010-05-08 · 9 answers
Greetings.
This topic has probably been discussed before, and I looked up many threads here posted on it, but found none that would address my concern, so I am posting a new one.
Scriptures speak about devotees, specific ones like Arjuna or Gajendra, or more generally about the type "devotee". From what point on do those scriptural statements apply to a particular person, or in what circumstances?
How is the identity of a devotee defined, for all practical intents and purposes, and what are the implications of that identity?
For example, the purport to SB 8.3.32 states: "A devotee does not consider a dangerous position to be dangerous, for in such a dangerous position he can fervently pray to the Lord in great ecstasy. Thus a devotee regards danger as a good opportunity. Tat tenukampuc0u257 u109 u769 susamu299 ksu803 amu257 nu803 ahu803 . When a devotee is in great danger, he sees that danger to be the great mercy of the Lord because it is an opportunity to think of the Lord very sincerely and with undiverted attention."
This is a factual description of a devotee, much like there is a factual description of, for example, a "U.S. citizen".
A U.S. citizen may turn to the U.S. Government, and has some rights and privileges from the title of being a U.S. citizen.
Someone who is not a U.S. citizen does not have such rights and privileges.
Both the citizen as well as the non-citizen may find themselves in the same predicament, such as being ill, assaulted or losing their job.
So if such a non-citizen turns to the U.S. Government, this person will not be entitled to the same rights and privileges as a citizen, and will likely be ignored or even punished (for being an illegal alien and disclosing it).
Does this same reasoning apply to being a devotee?
Meaning: If someone is a devotee and they find themselves in danger, then they may do as stated above in the SB quote.
But if someone is not a devotee, finds themselves in danger, then they may _not_ do as stated above in the SB quote, or at least if they do, this will not count for as much as if a devotee did it, and such a non-devotee must be aware of that.
Is this correct?
Thank you for your replies.
This topic has probably been discussed before, and I looked up many threads here posted on it, but found none that would address my concern, so I am posting a new one.
Scriptures speak about devotees, specific ones like Arjuna or Gajendra, or more generally about the type "devotee". From what point on do those scriptural statements apply to a particular person, or in what circumstances?
How is the identity of a devotee defined, for all practical intents and purposes, and what are the implications of that identity?
For example, the purport to SB 8.3.32 states: "A devotee does not consider a dangerous position to be dangerous, for in such a dangerous position he can fervently pray to the Lord in great ecstasy. Thus a devotee regards danger as a good opportunity. Tat tenukampuc0u257 u109 u769 susamu299 ksu803 amu257 nu803 ahu803 . When a devotee is in great danger, he sees that danger to be the great mercy of the Lord because it is an opportunity to think of the Lord very sincerely and with undiverted attention."
This is a factual description of a devotee, much like there is a factual description of, for example, a "U.S. citizen".
A U.S. citizen may turn to the U.S. Government, and has some rights and privileges from the title of being a U.S. citizen.
Someone who is not a U.S. citizen does not have such rights and privileges.
Both the citizen as well as the non-citizen may find themselves in the same predicament, such as being ill, assaulted or losing their job.
So if such a non-citizen turns to the U.S. Government, this person will not be entitled to the same rights and privileges as a citizen, and will likely be ignored or even punished (for being an illegal alien and disclosing it).
Does this same reasoning apply to being a devotee?
Meaning: If someone is a devotee and they find themselves in danger, then they may do as stated above in the SB quote.
But if someone is not a devotee, finds themselves in danger, then they may _not_ do as stated above in the SB quote, or at least if they do, this will not count for as much as if a devotee did it, and such a non-devotee must be aware of that.
Is this correct?
Thank you for your replies.
user [38] · 2010-05-09
Anyone can call to the Lord. When in danger, such call is sincere and Lord reacts. The point is to call Him and not someone else. That requires to trust Him and depend on Him. So in this case the difference between devotee and nondevotee is whom he will call. Its an internal thing.user [447] · 2010-05-09
Is there any scriptural reference for such a view?Moreover, when scriptures published by ISKCON say "devotee", does this actually mean ISKCON devotee?
user [154] · 2010-05-09
No. devotee means devotee, bhakta.user [149] · 2010-05-09
>> So in this case the difference between devotee and nondevotee is whom he will call.> Is there any scriptural reference for such a view?
"O best among the Bhuc0u257 ratas, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me '97 the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute." (Gita 7.16)
Purport: "Unlike the miscreants, these are adherents of the regulative principles of the scriptures, and they are called sukru803 tinahu803 , or those who obey the rules and regulations of scriptures, the moral and social laws, and are, more or less, devoted to the Supreme Lord. Out of these there are four classes of men '97 those who are sometimes distressed, those who are in need of money, those who are sometimes inquisitive, and those who are sometimes searching after knowledge of the Absolute Truth. These persons come to the Supreme Lord for devotional service under different conditions. These are not pure devotees, because they have some aspiration to fulfill in exchange for devotional service."
user [38] · 2010-05-09
Gajendra gives one example of a distress call to the Lord.With Sri Jagannath and Sri Garuda: http://www.govindarestaurace.cz/fotky.html (last line, right)
user [433] · 2010-05-10
[quote][cite] Baker:[/cite]Is there any scriptural reference for such a view?Moreover, when scriptures published by ISKCON say "devotee", does this actually mean ISKCON devotee?[/quote]
You have a bizarre understanding of Krishna Consciousness.
user [488] · 2010-05-11
Haridas, can you explain what is so bizarre about Bakers understanding of Krsna Con.user [562] · 2010-05-11
[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Gajendra gives one example of a distress call to the Lord.[/quote]Was it call of distress or total surrender,atma-nivedanam?
user [38] · 2010-05-11
By calling in distress we recognize our unability to help ourselves while seeking help from others. Thats a form of surrender.