Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Here you go .....

http://narayanamaharaja.blogspot.com/2006/06/getting-beyond-narayan-ragodaya-kucati.html

Ive heard Narayana Maharaj offended Sridhar Maharaj publicly and did not apologize publicly, but what kind of offense and do not know. anyone knows?

Is this question really important? If so for what reason?...It seems some people on this website show an incessant interest in wanting to find out all the dirt they can, and if none exists they will insinuate that dirt exists. Why is it that Iskcon does not have relations with the Gaudiya Math? Why is it that Iskcon does not have relations with Sridhars Math?

Is it not time that we all mature up? and understand for what ever reason different camps of Vaisnavas have always existed and will always continue to exist, all that is required from us is to respect all Vaisnavas and not to buy into party politics.

If you take sides on these issues you risk making public comment and if you make public comment in a public forum you risk Vaisnava aparadh, why to put at risk your devotional life? I see that most people in the Karmi world are unable to rise above party politics, is this also going to be an issue in the devotee community? If it is then it is a testament to our failure to get past base one and how we fail to see with spiritual vision.

Who cares?

Good points manasi_ seva. I was just curious because i heard something about and confuse if must be openly said if some guru is bona fide or not.

Tahnk you

Dandavats

For or against,accept or reject,isn`t this the nature of conditioned souls.Perhaps we could try and be humble and accept in our fallen condition we can`t understand the dealings between advanced Vaisnavas,and follow the instruction of our Srila Prabhupad that he can criticise but we must not.

Please compare the above with what narayanna maharaja suggests is his superior veiw....it appears in conflict, even in disagreement with his own guru!

Narayana Maharaja, Venu-gita, introduction:
"Those who believe that only sadhakas who are completely free from all anarthas are eligible to hear the above-mentioned pastimes (of Krishna and the gopis), will neither become free from anarthas nor obtain eligibility to hear even after millions of births... Then how can this greed be obtained...Faithfully hearing the narrations of Sri Krishnas pastimes saturated with rasa from the lips of rasika Vaisnavas or by faithfully studying the literature related to the pastimes of Sri Krishna, composed by them, this greed may be obtained. Besides this, there is no other means."

Narayana Maharaja Going Beyond Vaikuntha Chapter Seven:
"Some people think that they will first become free from all offenses and anarthas, become pure by their own efforts, and then engage in bhajana, but that is absurd."

Narayana Maharaja Going Beyond Vaikuntha Chapter Seven:
"If one listens with faith to narrations of Krishnas pastimes with the gopis by anusrnuyad-- accepting a pure guru, an ideal rasika Vaisnava who knows bhagavat-tattva and then constantly hearing from him-- then exclusive sentiment will come to him. This sentiment is our everything, and it will arise in us and give us great happiness."
Narayana Maharaja, Venu-gita, text 12, page 37
"We should always hear and chant and remember Krishnas Vrindavana pastimes. A rasika devotee will learn only enough tattva-jnana to facilitate his entrance into the bhava he is attracted to. Then everything will develop and he will be able to enter the lila. If he always thinks of Krishna as the Supreme Lord, then his attraction for Krishna will be pre-dominated by aisvarya-jnana and he will not be able to enter Krishnas madhurya-lila. Therefore a rasika Vaisnava should not focus on Krishna in the way He is presented in Bhagavad-gita, as the Supreme God."


Narayana Maharaja, Venu-gita, text 17, page 55
"Therefore, we should only focus our attention on those things that are helpful to our madhurya-bhava, not those things which pertain to aisvarya-bhava."

Narayana Maharaja Germany December 13, 2001, evening:
"If one wants to love Krishna in mood of a mother or father, his guru should be an ocean of that mood. If one is in the mood of Sri Rupa Manjari and thinks, "I want my siddha (perfected spiritual form) to be that of the manjari followers of Rupa Manjari," then the guru should be already perfect in that. He must already have that siddha-deha, and he should be very favorable and causelessly merciful to the disciple. Only that person can be ones siksa-guru; not others. One should think, "A person may be very learned, but if he is not especially affection towards me, and if he does not possess the mood that I want, the mood that is in my svarupa, then he cannot be my siksa-guru Attaining Gopi or Manjari Bhava
Narayana Maharaja Los Angeles, California - May 31, 2000:
"If you are pure or impure, if you have somehow come in the line of Mahaprabhu, then in your constitutional form there must be something of gopi-bhava. Otherwise how could you have come?"

Narayana Maharaja Part Two of a Lecture Given in Los Angeles, California: May 13, 2001:
"You may have decided that your goal is gopi-prema or radha-prema, but you cannot achieve radha-prema. By your constitutional form you can only have the service of the gopis. Only the manjari mood, always serving the gopis, is possible for the jivas. [being a sakhi is not possible for a jiva]"

There are many disciples of Sridhar Maharaj in Srila Narayana Maharajs` camp and Maharaj and his senior disciples always speak very respectfully of Srila Sridhar.
If there appears to be conflict between what SNM says and other Acaryas rather than risk committing aparadh,let us try to act like Vaisnavas and have the humility to accept we may not be qualified to understand these apparent differences,and then use our intelligence by inquiring from the author.

[quote][cite] mano54:[/cite]There are many disciples of Sridhar Maharaj in Srila Narayana Maharajs` camp and Maharaj and his senior disciples always speak very respectfully of Srila Sridhar.
If there appears to be conflict between what SNM says and other Acaryas rather than risk committing aparadh,let us try to act like Vaisnavas and have the humility to accept we may not be qualified to understand these apparent differences,and then use our intelligence by inquiring from the author.[/quote]

Sridhar Maharaja followers in London told me they dont want anything to do with NM followers. They think the whole approach of that Math is entirely bogus and they are more vehemently against them then anything Ive seen in Iskcon. There analysis is much more convincing then Iskcons also.

[quote][cite] mano54:[/cite]There are many disciples of Sridhar Maharaj in Srila Narayana Maharajs` camp and Maharaj and his senior disciples always speak very respectfully of Srila Sridhar.
If there appears to be conflict between what SNM says and other Acaryas rather than risk committing aparadh,let us try to act like Vaisnavas and have the humility to accept we may not be qualified to understand these apparent differences,and then use our intelligence by inquiring from the author.[/quote]

Enough with ur gay and lame Aparadhi card. U dont understand the subject. Stop trying 2nd guess devotees intention of purpose. Sounds like some kind of cultish smokescreen. Very duplicious! Digusting,imho!
Our day will come! MAD AFTER KRSNA!! U can never know! The Ascendancy!

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials6019.htm

Theres a thin line between fault finding and being alert for the wrong. Also -- when being alert for the wrong and boldly protecting the legacy of your spiritual masters teachings -- its okay to go on the attack but its also wise to remember "principles before personalities." In fact -- you can take it to another level and remember to "hate the sin and not the sinner."

Ive been called an offender and a blasphemer since the late 70s when I began speaking out against the so-called appointment of eleven godbrothers to the status of worshipable-on-vyasa-asanas-diksa-gurus. I wrote and spoke on the topic many times back then and I continue to. However -- I never took it to the personal level nor did I engage in character assassination. After all -- how can I possibly know or judge what is in each persons heart and why somebody might go off misinterpreting, misleading, misrepresenting. Sometimes its unavoidable to point out who is doing what and why it is wrong and how it is wrong in the light of Guru, Sastra and Sadhu -- but even then -- in the particular situation Im referring to (the chaos and terrible repercussions from the zonal acarya debacle -- I try to keep in mind that those same eleven godbrothers also, to their eternal credit, did wonderful service in helping Srila Prabhupadas mission to spread Krishna consciousness throughout the world and that if and when they are willing to humbly admit they were wrong that they can go on from there and continue to be vibrant dynamic forces serving the lotus feet of our guru maharaja.

By the way -- in keeping on topic -- I wrote the above with the fact in mind that when a particular article was published and posted on the Internet by a senior sannyasi in the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math (I think it was called "Beyond the Narayana Conception") which mostly pointed out the dangers of sahajiyaism creeping into the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya --- his siksa guru, Srila Govinda Maharaja, became somewhat upset and told him he should not have made a direct attack by mentioning the name of Narayana Maharaja specifically. You may agree or disagree but thats what happened in that instance and yes, there is more enmity between the SCSM and Narayana Maharajas camp than between ISKCON and Narayana Maharaja and his followers (although its the ISKCON vs. Narayana Maharaja situation that has been making headline news these days on the Internet and sparking some heavy debates among devotees on the Internet, especially facebook.

Bhagavan prasada... is that you Sri Govinda das?

yes, he is. And user "bhakti" too.
to Sri govinda das from New Zealand: One more account created by you in this site and we will begin a campaign on the main internet sites informing about your practices. You are warned.

[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]Bhagavan prasada... is that you Sri Govinda das?[/quote]
yes, he is. And user "bhakti" too.
to Sri govinda das from New Zealand: One more account created by you in this site and we will begin a campaign on the main internet sites informing about your practices. You are warned.

"I wrote the above with the fact in mind that when a particular article was published and posted on the Internet by a senior sannyasi in the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math (I think it was called "Beyond the Narayana Conception") which mostly pointed out the dangers of sahajiyaism creeping into the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya"

Dear Portnoy Prabhu, I searched for "Beyond the Narayana Conception" and variants but I could not find the article. The closest I got was this one: http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/topic_1865.html . Can you confirm if this is the one that you mentioned?

Let us read the Bhagavad Gita, the direct words of Lord Krishna and remember the Lord says again and again to rise above all dualities. based on like dislike, auspicious inauspicious, good bad.

BG 6:9

sadhushu cha api paapishu, sama buddhir vishishyate...even minded to those we think as sinners or saints.

Hari Bol Hari Bol.

Yes - rise above -- panditah sama-darsinah -- see with equal vision all living entities --- transcend bodily distinctions -- rise above mundane dualities --- be even minded to saints and sinners -- be a transcendentalist by all means --- but dont go up to a tiger and try hugging him. For the purpose of preaching and functioning in this material world even an uttama adhikary comes down to the stage of madhyama adhikary and makes distinctions that here is an innocent person to preach to .. here is a demon atheist to kick on the head .... here is someone who is not yet ready to be enlightened with Bhagavat philosophy so give him/her some prasadam and let them hear the Holy Name ...... like that. Okay?

Ha Ha Ha. :)

"Anybody knows why Govinda Maharajs / Sridhar maharajs disciples have not relations with Narayana Maharaj ?"

Ive herd that in Narayana Maharajas Math there is acceptance of Mira-Bai, and they (Narayana Maharajas disciples, but not sure about Narayana Maharaja himself) say that she is a devotee.

So on other hand, Ive read article of Sridhara Maharaja: http://bvml.org/SBRSM/fm.html ("Famous Mirabai" by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja) where it is said that this kind of devotion - "only me and Krishna" - is not pure devotion, because there is no reference to devotees, but only to Krishna from side of this Mira Bai.

So here is quote:
"Only Krsna is the object of her praise, admiration and all are diminished. She cannot see the greatness, the nobelness of the paraphernalia, only Krsna '96 this is artificial. '93If you want to be My devotee, become devotee of the devotee. One who is the devotee of the devotee he is My real devotee.'94 And I cannot recognize the greatness, the nobelness of the devotee of Krsna and diminishing them '93I am good and Krsna is good'94 and all are diminished. What is this! No better person than myself, only Krsna and myself, and all others are diminished. This is madness. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna."

But Narayana Maharajas disciples sometimes may say - no no she (Mira Bai) is devotee, she even went to spiritual world...
But we can also know that if she (Mirabai) said: "everyone in Vrindavan is woman, and only Krishna is man" that might mean that she is in consciousness of Krishna as Shiva. It is known that on Shivas abode everyone who is not man - becomes woman. So only Shiva is man there. So it seems that devotion of Mira Bai of some mistype. So Sridhara Maharaja discusses this: "Devotee: Maharaj, they say that she took initiation from Jiva Goswami.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: No, we don'92t find that. In the songs of Mirabai such things are not present. Some connections, something is known. She also insulted Jiva Goswami. It is told, that Mirabai came to see Rupa Goswami and Rupa Goswami, at that time she was in a particular mood, he said, '91I don'92t like to see any lady now.'94 Then she told, '93Oh, he thinks himself to be a man. I think, the only man in Vrndavan is Krsna and all else are women.'94 With that remark she went away. This also was mentioned in '93Bhakta-mal'94 grantha. And that is not very authentic book. It is a collection about the lives of many devotees of different types, but not very authentic."

--

Well, but on another side I see that all Narayana Maharajas math (probably including Narayana Maharaja himself) officially accept Sridhara Maharajas books. But I still havent seen (maybe it is different now though, not sure) that they accept Govinda Maharaja as successor of Sridhara Maharaja. On other hand I only heard from some Narayana Maharajas disciple(s):
sambandha - is A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
abhidheya - is Sridhara Maharaja,
but prayojana (for Narayana Maharajas some disciple(s)) - is Narayana Maharaja...

But taking into account such acceptance of Mira Bai from side of Narayana Maharajas disciples (I also found that in ISKCON as well, but maybe it is also some "regional ISKCON", not bona-fide) - that might mean their devotion might be on some lower lever.

What I mean, taking into account Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharajas words about Mira Bai - such devotion (accepting only Krishna, but not His devotees) is madness: "only Krsna '96 this is artificial. '93If you want to be My devotee, become devotee of the devotee. One who is the devotee of the devotee he is My real devotee.'94 And I cannot recognize the greatness, the nobelness of the devotee of Krsna and diminishing them '93I am good and Krsna is good'94 and all are diminished. What is this! No better person than myself, only Krsna and myself, and all others are diminished. This is madness. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna."

But I also know that this became a trick - to call oneself a "devotee of devotee". In this way many people accept Shiva as greatest devotee, but then give up Krishna. THough, they call themselves devotee of devotee, call themselves as devotees of Shiva, but then they give up real devotional service, or remain on some unstable platform (if they have it at all) in bhakti.