Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Women both on bodily and transcendent level are attracted to Krsna. Kubja and gopis are examples of both categories.

Bodily attraction is impure.

All devotees are attracted by Krsnas nama, rupa, guna and lila. Their rasa is manifested only in advanced stages of bhakti.

Can anyone provide the reference to the story behind the rshis in Rama-lila, who due their attraction for Lord Sri Rama, appeared in Krishna-lila as gopis?

The story is mentioned only in short at the beginning of Krsna Upanisad, no history of the rishis is given there.

The purport to Bhagavatam 10.29.9 quotes the following:

"Padma Purana Uttara khanda [verse cited] This verse says that upon seeing Lord Ramacandra, the sages in the Dandaka forest desired to enjoy Lord Hari (Krishna). In other words, the sight of Lord Ramas beauty reminded them of Lord Hari, Gopala, their personal object of worship, and they then wanted to enjoy with Him. But out of embarrassment they did not act on that desire, whereupon Lord Sri Rama, who is like a desire tree, gave His mercy to them, even though they had not voiced their request. Thus their desire was fulfilled, as stated by the words beginning te sarve. By means of their lusty attraction they became freed from the ocean of material existence, the cycle of birth and death, and coincidentally they got the association of Hari in conjugal love."

The answer to the question what attracts men to Krishna is given here: His beauty. More generally though, the six opulences individually, in combination, or as a whole are the attractive feature. Different men (and women for that matter) will be attracted by different opulences, emotions and desires. Actually the answer to What attracts men to Krishna? and What attracts men to Krishna? is the same. Or you can boil it right down to the common denominator and ask, What attracts all living entities to to Krishna? The answer is the same.

> If you are in a male body, what is it that attracts you to Krishna, how do you experience this attraction? Is it like affection for a friend?

This may occur for someone on an advanced level but in general as absolute beginners we are advised to approach Bhagavan Sri Krishna in the same mood as Arjuna: parma dhama parma brahma (Gita 10.12-13)

In CC Antya 20.28 Srila Prabhupada writes of the dangers of devotees who consider themselves "...advanced devotees in spontaneous love, as knowers of transcendental mellows, as the topmost devotees in conjugal love of Krishna..." but who in fact erroneously "...accept their material emotions to be indicative of advancement."

Excellent question, good idea:-) next time I see a man I will ask him.

But seriously, even Krsna is attracted to Krsna, even if it is only a reflection in a nicely polished floor, obviously all his qualities are attractive, be it wealth, his knowledge, his being bhakta-vatsala or being omnipotent. The omniscient feature may be not so attractive to man, but they are ready to overlook it...

[quote][cite] deena:[/cite]Actually the answer to What attracts men to Krishna? and What attracts women to Krishna? is the same. Or you can boil it right down to the common denominator and ask, What attracts all living entities to to Krishna? The answer is the same.[/quote]

I asked the question because I wondered how the sex of the body relates to how an embodied soul feels toward Krishna, given that Krishna is male, and embodied souls generally have specific preferences according to the sex of their body.[br]
[br]
(In comparison, the persons sex and God being portrayed as a male are relevant in some traditions. I knew a Christian counselor who specialized in counselling women who were abused by men and who, presumably due to that, had a problem in accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior and addressing God as "He". At least to some Christians, this is a perfectly valid concern, and it has directly to do with the persons sex. - But yes, Christians have a different understanding of the qualities of the soul than GV.)

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]Excellent question, good idea:-) next time I see a man I will ask him.[/quote]

And of course you never see any, except One. :)

[quote][cite] deena:[/cite]> If you are in a male body, what is it that attracts you to Krishna, how do you experience this attraction? Is it like affection for a friend?[br]

This may occur for someone on an advanced level but in general as absolute beginners we are advised to approach Bhagavan Sri Krishna in the same mood as Arjuna: parma dhama parma brahma (Gita 10.12-13)[/quote]

Sure, this is what we are advised. But my question for this thread is of practical nature too.[br][br]

[quote]In CC Antya 20.28 Srila Prabhupada writes of the dangers of devotees who consider themselves "...advanced devotees in spontaneous love, as knowers of transcendental mellows, as the topmost devotees in conjugal love of Krishna..." but who in fact erroneously "...accept their material emotions to be indicative of advancement."[/quote]

I once read a devotee profile on the internet and under "skills", it said "loving Krishna" ...

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Women both on bodily and transcendent level are attracted to Krsna. Kubja and gopis are examples of both categories.

Bodily attraction is impure.[/quote]

I have read about Kubja at your website and in the SB.[br]
This is difficult for me to understand. What is bodily attraction - is it the kind of lusty, temporary attraction that people often feel for other people and things?
[br][br]
[quote]All devotees are attracted by Krsnas nama, rupa, guna and lila. Their rasa is manifested only in advanced stages of bhakti.[/quote]

I find it just fascinating that serious, rational, successful men feel attracted to Krishna!

>I find it just fascinating that serious, rational, successful men feel attracted to Krishna!

Is it not the truth? Certainly a proof that He does not only exist, but also is very very nice person...

atmarama ca munayo ...

> What is bodily attraction - is it the kind of lusty, temporary attraction that people often feel for other people and things?

Yes. hRt-zayA'97lusty feelings (SB 10.42.9)

Its very simple: Krsna means all attractive:

"He'92s attractive to the animals, He'92s attractive to the trees, He'92s attractive to the flowers, He'92s attractive to the water, and what to speak of human beings. He'92s attractive; therefore His name is Kuc0u7771 u7779 u7751 a. Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a means all-attractive." - http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/730216BG.SYD.htm

In the beginning you have no clue who Krishna is, but simply by chanting his name serious, rational, successful men get bliss, it all starts in the chanting then we are drawn deeper by the philosophy, pastimes, realizations and of course the Guru. Finally through the Guru a real dynamic relationship with Krishna begins.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]> What is bodily attraction - is it the kind of lusty, temporary attraction that people often feel for other people and things?

Yes. hRt-zayA'97lusty feelings (SB 10.42.9)[/quote]

Since you compared Kubja and the gopis, this could be taken to mean that sex desire is bodily, but the desire to dance with a fabulously handsome man is not. This is also in line with common notions of modesty.[br]
I am not sure this is what you mean, though.[br][br]

Would it be correct to say that "bodily attraction" goes by the principle "I want this thing, I want to get rid of that thing; I want this person to do this, I want that person to refrain from doing that; so that then I will be happy" -?[br]
This could then be true of Kubja, and also of other people, men or women, who desire health, wealth, children, relationships with others, fame, mundane knowledge or philosophical insight.[br][br]
But I find it difficult to understand how anyone could have any different kind of desire, as it seems to me that every desire that living beings have has an element of " ... so that I will be happy". I do not see how this element can be ignored or made irrelevant, at least I dont think one can endure such ignoring of ones own happiness for a long time.[br][br]
From some devotees and scriptures, I have gotten the impression that devotees seek to please Krishna - and that one should seek to please Krishna even if it comes at the cost of themselves being miserable in the process. If this is true, then I am worried, because I do not see how I could endure such a state.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]atmarama ca munayo ...[/quote]

I take it you are referring to SB 1.7.10?

yes Baker. This is the key verse.

> one should seek to please Krishna even if it comes at the cost of themselves being miserable in the process. If this is true, then I am worried, because I do not see how I could endure such a state.

The main difference is selflessness of the gopis - see anyabhilasita-sunyam verse, the last verse in Siksastaka, etc. E.g. Kuntidevi prays for that since it helps her to remember Krsna and rely on Him. The happiness from such attitude is incomparably greater than in trying to achieve ones own happiness. Yes, bhaktiyoga is beyond material experience and logic.

it is simple for the simple, but it is very hard for the crooked

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]The main difference is selflessness of the gopis - see anyabhilasita-sunyam verse, the last verse in Siksastaka, etc. E.g. Kuntidevi prays for that since it helps her to remember Krsna and rely on Him. The happiness from such attitude is incomparably greater than in trying to achieve ones own happiness.[/quote]

I think understand this. But I do not understand how the gopis, Queen Kunti and other devotees come to the point of having such trust in Krishna - that Krishna will not let them down, betray them, send them to hell, confuse them, make them insane?[br]
[br]My primary experience with people who are beautiful, rich, famous and so on, is that they do not care about me; that they have no qualms about lying to me or betraying me. That those people who claim to be my "friends" or that they "love" me are the first ones to let me down. I cannot but associate beauty, fame, richess, declared love, declared friendship with betrayal and other malignant intentions and acts.[br]So when I read about God, that He is beautiful, a friend to all and so on, it gives me the chills.[br][br]
What do devotees actually think? Do they think something like "If I manage to feel worthless enough, if I manage to consider myself stupid and evil enough, then God will be kind to me and will not make me insane?"[br]
If I wish to avoid eternal damnation, or at least eternal samsara, I have to somehow find a way to be happy with being miserable for all eternity?

[quote][cite] mung:[/cite]it is simple for the simple, but it is very hard for the crooked[/quote]

Schadenfreude, eh?

Our experience with people conditioned by matter leads to such conclusion. But Krsna has no comparison.

No, pure devotees dont think like that - this would be a kind of business.
Instead, they want to serve Krsna life after life, in heaven or hell, in human or animal body, and making Krsna happy is their only consideration.
Imho, the title of this song explains it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Know_Him_Is_to_Love_Him

Haribol. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances.

"What attracts men to Krishna?"

Thats easy..the female devotees. lol

Especially in the west. Srila Prabhupada said he had to include the women into the temples because if he did not, the men would not come. Then those same men misuse Srila Prabhupadas teachings to abuse the female devotees; they put them down as being "less intelligent" and blame them for their problems resulting from attraction for enjoying women.

Baker: "women who were abused by men and who, presumably due to that, had a problem in accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior and addressing God as "He". **Not only Christians, women who have been abused by men have problems accepting Sri Krishna as God, too, or they struggle to develop trust in Him, as men have broken their trust.

Baker : "I asked the question because I wondered how the sex of the body relates to how an embodied soul feels toward Krishna, given that Krishna is male, and embodied souls generally have specific preferences according to the sex of their body." **We are not these bodies yet the body definitely affects us in our devotions. Women possess a wonderful quality called mamta which is the emotion that mothers in all species have for their young, enabling them to take care of them, to sacrifice their comfort and sometimes life, to nurture and protect them; young girls express it when holding small babies, furry animals or dolls. That emotion, when directed toward Lord Jagannath enables her to think of Him as her own and to care for and feed Him with love and devotion, which is what He wants. He is not lacking in anything. He doesnt benefit from our knowledge of matter and spirit or our shastric recitations. He doesnt need anything. He is attracted by loving devotion.

Practically no westerner comes to Krishna Consciousness due to attraction to Sri Krishna. It is attraction to the philosophy or Srila Prabhupada or a safe place to live or the happiness of devotees or temple worship or the taste of prasadam, etc.. Some think they like the chanting but most cant even complete 16 rounds everyday.

Baker: "I have also heard statements to the effect that women are less intelligent than men - whereby by "intelligence" is meant the ability to discern between matter and spirit. This could be taken to suggest that mens attraction to Krishna is on a higher level than womens."** Men may claim that, but you need to hear or read Srila Gour Govinda Swamis lecture on Uddhava Sandesh to understand which is higher.

Veda "Bodily attraction is impure." ***If it is in relation to Sri Krishna it is pure. Sri Krishna is described as being attractive to all women. Why is it not attractive to all men? Because the Lords attraction to all women really counts for something. "By means of their lusty attraction they became freed from the ocean of material existence, the cycle of birth and death, and coincidentally they got the association of Hari in conjugal love."***It is to be understood that these sages had already developed pure conjugal love for Sri Gopala. An ordinary conditioned soul in a male body would not have these kinds of desires. "In other words, the sight of Lord Ramas beauty reminded them of Lord Hari, Gopala, their personal object of worship, and they then wanted to enjoy with Him."

Usually women are not interested in austerities, they are considered sense enjoyers. They are nine times lustier than men. If they require sex and children they are given by Srila Prabhupada a disciple of his who is in a similar boat to exhaust or burn up these desires. In married life, ladies also learn to sacrifice for the children and how to serve the husband (Sri Krishna is the only real husband of every soul) through femine roles and traits. By his kindless and wisdom he also employs both male and female in his mission and in seva. So, if they are faithful and chaste to him, somewhere in the mid-life, ultimately the only desire left is to become surrendered at his two divine lotus feet in the service of the ideal male, Sri Krishna. There is no other male that is worthy of the souls full eternal surrender. As a soul we have to surrender to someone--either Maya or Sri Krishna. We are never independent.

CCD "The omniscient feature may be not so attractive to man, but they are ready to overlook it...**" True, true. We want to forget He is always watching and sees what we do, so we can go right ahead and do it..

Baker "From some devotees and scriptures, I have gotten the impression that devotees seek to please Krishna - and that one should seek to please Krishna even if it comes at the cost of themselves being miserable in the process. If this is true, then I am worried, because I do not see how I could endure such a state." **Good you are honest and know where you are at. It is not at all artificial. Having suffered at the hands of Maya for so many lifetimes, first you must feel happy in practicing Krishna consciousness (all glories to Srila Prabhupada for giving us "Chant and be Happy!) then, as you advance, the tests come, showing you just how surrendered you really are (never enough--there is eternal struggle between Lord and His devotee to bring happiness to each other). Ultimately u will experience the bliss and power of unconditional love and desire to remain in that state perpetually. That is the state of consciousness in which one dies well--not until then. It is not that Sri Krishna does not care about us, He does. It is He who is bringing us closer to Him, not us who are doing the bringing. As an aside, Mother Sita told Sri Rama that she did not want to play such an unhappy role ever again. So dont think you will give up your self, your individual tastes and desires, rather they will manifest within the internal energy, not the external.

We become what we associate with. If men worship that crest jewel of all crookedness and divine loving affairs--the One who calls other mens wives in the dead of night to enjoy, they run the risk of assuming His traits as they already are attracted to enjoy many women by having male bodies. How many of our men, even big leaders have fallen into this? Worship of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada is the safe way to reach Sri Krishna for them. But ladies are so fortunate they can worship either or both, as long as it is under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada. Men may disagree, but Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Who is Bhagavan Sri Krishna, left his beautiful chaste wife, Srimate Laksmi devi, the Goddess of Fortune Herself, at the tender age of 24 to take sannyas, so that his abiman or identity of male as the enjoyer would not rise up in Her company and He could manifest His mood of a female devotee, in particular Srimate Radhika, in separation from Her Lord.

This is a very deep topic. Hare Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada ki jai! Sriman Mahaprabhu ki jai! Lord Jagannath ki Jai! Sri Hanumanji ki jai!!

"What attracts men to Krishna?"

Men seem to be more attracted to philosophy, so Krishna attracts as Bhagavan, Supreme Personality of Godhead, which takes one (usually by mercy of devotee like A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) out of cycle of millions of birthes and deathes life after life in 8400000 species of life on countless planets in material world.

There can be no tangible reason behind why men r attracted towards Krishna..The reason is present in Krishnas name...The word Krishna means...all-attractive. While we say all-attractive, we mean to say, that every living entity is attracted towards Krishna. We often adopt a narrow sense to consider Krishna just a male. Krishna is a force, The Paramatman, and being so, He has a natural tendency to attract the Jivatman or the embodied soul....The attraction is purely transcendental and nothing mundane.........Nothing can surpass Krishnas beauty....Krishna has got absolute beauty...so it is natural that every living entity will be attracted towards Krishna.........and Krishna has got no material body....He has Sat-chit-ananda vigraha which is eternally blissful. Since Krishna attracts both men and women, He is called the transcendental Cupid. In most of the pictures,He appears like a beautiful prince that can catch the attention of women but not men, but there are some rare pictures where He is portrayed as a Cupid. This portrayal can grab the attention of both men and women. In Bhagavatam we find an incident where Krishna in Dwarka dresses Himself as a woman when Udbhav ji says,"How wonderful it is that this
woman is attracting my ecstatic love exactly as Lord Krsna does. I think she
must be Krsna covered by the dress of a woman!" Generally, if a male dresses himself as a female, it will not attract a male , how beautiful he may be, but since its Krishna, who has got a transcendental beauty, He can ignite ecstatic love within heart even when dressed as woman. This attraction is transcendental and not bodily. I have such a picture of Krishna dressed as a beautiful woman....and I personally extol that form....

There is a passage in the
Fourth Chapter of the Lalita-madhava, (4.19), in which Krsna addresses
Uddhava as follows: "My dear friend, the form of Govinda, the cowherd
boy, attracts Me. Indeed, I wish to be like the damsels of Vraja, who
are also attracted by this form of Govinda." Similarly, in the Eighth
Chapter, Krsna says: "O how wonderful it is! Who is this person? After
seeing Him(Krsna Himself), I am so attracted that I am now desiring to embrace Him just
like Radhika."Even Krsna Himself is attracted to His own form, what to say about ordinary living entities??