Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

makes no difference for the people that benefits from any camp that preaches KC and follows Srila Prabhupada'b4s simple instructions.

Names are only that, names.

At the end of the day, Krishna controls and utilizes everyone of us, be that realized or not.

If someone feels the imperative need to "belong" to a particular institution to feel validated, that also his/her call.

on a separate note... problems arise when institutions feel they must control people and engage in a fierce battle for supremacy among them. But that is politics and belongs to rajo-guna wherefrom cannot be any real spiritual advancement

Personally having been associated with maha sringha das ,whom was the Temple president there in Bangalore previous to Madhu pandit it is a very interesting scenario.He informs me that though the ritvik -vada team of Madhu pandit stole the temple from Iskcon proper ...the initial problem was that iskcon because it was registered outside India, they were seen as American ...in other words in an unfavourable light!
This has now been rectified by the creation of ...and ground breaking ceremony of the Vedic Planetarium,with ISKCON now formalising there world head quaters in sri dharma mayapura officially!
Because of the real threat of possibly taking other temples,and even setting up another GBC for their own ISKCON...in other words a mirror image of iscon itself.... for india and then eventually for the world the GBC were very keen to put a stop to such extreme activities if possible!..In other words given the ability in India to practically assume a iskcon society position...unchallenged ,create a new GBC...ineffect they could with time possibly be in a position to steal all iskcons assets!
Wonderfully there was some chance made unofficially to work with them making possible compromises ,however it was the indian and russian devotees whom eventually moved against this peace offer refusing to accomadate those whom had previously been within there own ranks!....Personally i agree with mishra sadhu, an all emcompasing scenario needs to be followed again....a more broad minded spectre encouraging honesty !

Back in the early 80s bangalore temple was in a small rented housed in Rajaji Nagar. Maha Sringha Das and Satvic Das were running the temple. Later on Madhu Pandit Das (MPD) and Chancalpathi came into picture - they moved it to a bigger rental house and later to the Hare Krishna Hill. MPD team in matter of years built the beautiful temple on the land (rather, useless rock) provided by the Government. This came with lot of hard work - so not sure how we acn say, they "stole the temple from iskcon proper".

<< This has now been rectified by the creation of ...and ground breaking ceremony of the Vedic Planetarium,with ISKCON now formalising there world head quaters in sri dharma mayapura officially!>>

I am extremely glad to hear this!!!

Regards
Joyaditta

<< Back in the early 80s bangalore temple was in a small rented housed in Rajaji Nagar>>

Agreed. All organizations and movements start small.

<<Later on Madhu Pandit Das (MPD) and Chancalpathi came into picture >>

Who brought them in the picture may I ask? Please donot take this question otherwise as I am ignorant about it.
Was he appointed by GBC?

<<MPD team in matter of years built the beautiful temple on the land (rather, useless rock) provided by the Government.>>

Isnt it expected from a temple president ?

I would guess that Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa came into picture about early 1990s, isnt it?

Bangalore started off big on the global stage around that time through IT and ITES.No IT bubble burst or recession at that time.People had money and they could spend it.

If the story were to be repeated in any of the tier II cities of India the success would be the same.

I suppose he collected donations for the temple. Could I ask what he told when he collected the money in the name of ISKCON?

Did he mention to the donors that ISKCON they are giving money to is different to ISKCON worldwide? A simple yes or no answer would help.

Someone employs you, you excel in your job and then you try kicking the employer out....... well thats stealing by my books.

Let me answer to best of my knowledge

>Who brought them in the picture may I ask? Please donot take this question otherwise as I am ignorant about it.
>Was he appointed by GBC?
GBC appointed them as President/VP of Bangalore temple - some time between 84-86

>Isnt it expected from a temple president ?
Yes expanding the congregation and providing temple is temple presidents job - building a temple in about 10 years costing Rs 38 Crores is no easy task - if you think that should be the case, why not try to build a temple that is as beautiful as Hare Krishna Hill temple.

>I would guess that Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa came into picture about early 1990s, isnt it?
around 1985-86

>Bangalore started off big on the global stage around that time through IT and ITES.No IT bubble burst or recession at that time.People had money and they could spend it.
Temple was completed by 1997 - way before IT boom

>I suppose he collected donations for the temple. Could I ask what he told when he collected the money in the name of ISKCON?
>Did he mention to the donors that ISKCON they are giving money to is different to ISKCON worldwide? A simple yes or no answer would help.
Bangalore temple was registered as Karnataka entity - this was done by the recommendation of GBC !! and it stays the same way today. Both pre and post madhu pandit days, money collection is done the same way - for Srila Prabhupadas ISKCON

>Someone employs you, you excel in your job and then you try kicking the employer out....... well thats stealing by my books.
i dont understand the comparison here - ISKCON bangalore was a karnaka regisistered entity from day one it was registered. So it has been operating the same way since it was registered.

by the way, i am just a bangalore das - i am not associated with iskcon bangalore in any way - i have just visited iskcon bangalore since the new temple was built one a handful of times - but looking at their accomplishments i am amazed. I am sure they have blessing from Lord Krishna and Srila Prabhudha on every one of there efforts to propagate Sri Krishnas glories.

a devotee did travel all over USA and saw that the projects that are flourishing are the ones that are not directly under the GBC, mind you, not inimical, just that they are entirely run by devotees in a private way. It is sad, but nonetheless true that if you try to run a new project under the institution it becomes ruined very soon, by a combination of politics and burocracy.

Srila Prabhupadas ISKCON

The ISKCON registered in Mumbai.

>Srila Prabhupadas ISKCON
[p]
Any temple Glorifying Srila Prabhudha belongs to Srila Prabhupada - so is Bangalore Temple.

Bangalore temple was registered as Karnataka entity - this was done by [b] how Srila Prabhupada wanted it registered (and how the local GBC recommended) [/b]

>> Someone employs you, you excel in your job and then you try kicking the employer out....... well thats stealing by my books.

>i dont understand the comparison here - ISKCON bangalore was a karnaka regisistered entity from day one it was registered. So it has been operating the same way since it was registered.

ISKCON was designed by SP as decentralized, i.e. in each country registered separately. I dont know if he wanted for India it to be separately registered in each state - someone who knows can tell us.

MPdas built Bangalore temple as the ISKCON temple but then adopted ritvikism and started a legal battle with ISKCON over it since he thinks ritviks are the real ISKCON. What I know from a few devotees living in India is that ritvikism is used there as a cover for personal ambitions of certain individuals whore after profit, control and adoration. Thus they dont take MPdas and other ritviks seriously.

VEDA> I do not take seriously any person with ulterior selfish plans and that is not a question of names or institutions. Do you think that just by being under the banner of the "official" ISKCON, leaders are sort of immunized?

At the moment there are many more evidences of that what you accuse in there. And I am not ritvik, just have two eyes in my head and a more or less functioning brain.

You are intelligent, do not let yourself be caught in political battles for supremacy, my car is better than yours, etc, but the truth. Brahmana means independent thoughtful man.

> What I know from a few devotees living in India is that ritvikism is used there as a cover for personal ambitions of certain individuals whore after > profit, control and adoration.

I am not a rtvik either but I got a great education in profit, control and adoration in my 4 years in ISKCON India temples.

mishra and deena,

I referred to ritviks, not to official ISKCON leaders. From my statement about A one cant make any conclusions about what I think of B.
Tu quoque logical fallacy "A steals. But B steals too!" is quite common but shouldnt be found among devotees, imho, while stealing remains as the problem.

If one puts side by side a ritvik like MPd and a hypothetical corrupt ISKCON leader, then although they may have the same above mentioned motives and both are despicable, the latter is better of the two because he 1. didnt concoct an antivedic philosophy and 2. didnt attribute it to SP to justify his nonsense.

Level of my interest in various organizationss politics: very marginal

. Yasomatinandana Dasa...my temple president in 1974-80 sydney ...and good freind,hey how come he does not get a temple if madhu pandit does?He was at least a Prabhupada disciple...a real one!...he answered this to gaura hari das on facebook!
Jokes aside, your use of these quotes did nothing raise your grade-point average because your entire argument is underminded by your misunderstanding of Srila Prabhupadas instructions regarding ritviks. There simply was no "written arrangement" validating the ritvik system you propose. I was a ritvik TP - Srila Prabhupada asked me once when he was ill to name a devotee, chant on his beads and conduct the fire ceremony as if I were him - but of course the devotee was Srila Prabhupadas disciple. Srila Prabhupada introduced that ritvik system, which was never meant to continue after he had left us. Because there is no evidence to support the idea that Prabhupada intended the system to continue even past his ill-health at the time, the use of the "sastric quotes" you provide is simply spurious. You have a built in defence that anyone who criticises your concoction is "asslike" or at least not swanlike and narrowminded, but this is contradictory as you are an example of the very critical mentality you criticise, which of course you may now direct at me to undrmine me. Very convenient. It seems that you assume some, if not all, those who bravely accept the position of guru in ISKCON are madhyam or lesser. If you have faith that Prabhupada can be the guru of someone when he is not physically present, then why not simply have faith that even if a disciple is initiated by a "lesser" person according to your estimation, Srila Prabhupada will still guide and protect that devotees disciple.

It seems that you assume some, if not all, those who bravely accept the position of guru in ISKCON are madhyam or lesser. If you have faith that Prabhupada can be the guru of someone when he is not physically present, then why not simply have faith that even if a disciple is initiated by a "lesser" person according to your estimation, Srila Prabhupada will still guide and protect that devotees disciple. ...The moral of the story..........so if you collect the laxsmi for iskcon,but it is registered nefariously ...well it pays personally obviously.Then you have to create a GBC to continue the cheating process ,factually in a humble attempt to make the previous temple activities bonifide....at least to buy time and hence with money hopefully buy the truth by creating a real new reality!

<< Then you have to create a GBC to continue the cheating process ,factually in a humble attempt to make the previous temple activities bonifide....at least to buy time and hence with money hopefully buy the truth by creating a real new reality! >>

Spot on!

Regards
Joyaditta

<< Bangalore temple was registered as Karnataka entity - this was done by how Srila Prabhupada wanted it registered (and how the local GBC recommended) >>

Is it the process that has been adopted by GBC for all temples now or was Bangalore temple was made an exception.

If it is a process adopted by GBC then how come no other temples in India have come out of ISKCON worldwide. And surely when GBC recommended the same for Bangalore temple it surely it might be due to some technical purpose and not to get itself into a legal battle. I mean why woud someone ask for trouble.

Regards
Joyaditta

In my humble view, even if that has been some sort of separatism on the part of Bangalore temple, let them do. Why to go on legal battle, that means greed for properties and position.

If GBC has lost control of the Bangalore and other temples, its time they ask themselves, learn form the lesson and correct the cause if possible.

If control is lost, then let it be. Let put all our energies, intelligence and resources in the real business, preaching.

There is not much difference in the practical world if one accepts Srila Prabhupada as siksha or diksha, except for bureaucrats very much concerned about titles, position and power.

These are the same type of people that send their fellow citizens to war for purely political, economic, and strategic purposes, creating an ugly "foe".

Devotees at Bangalore temple are not "enemies". They are devotees like you, with a different approach. Time to wake up.

<< If GBC has lost control of the Bangalore and other temples, its time they ask themselves, learn form the lesson and correct the cause if possible >>

Though GBC is tricked in this case I still ardently pray that a constant soul-searching process is going on in GBC ( which I am sure it is the case) to bring back everything come back to normal.

<< If control is lost, then let it be. Let put all our energies, intelligence and resources in the real business, preaching.>>

I totally agree with you in the preaching part but one of the purposes of ISKCON is :

" To erect for the members, and for society at large, a holy place of transcendental pastimes, dedicated to the personality of Krishna." ( source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness )

So temples are important and losing even one of them does not serve the purpose .

<< There is not much difference in the practical world if one accepts Srila Prabhupada as siksha or diksha >>

Never in this whole thread have I ever raised a philosophical issue. This thread is about the dispute over the property on Hare Krishna Hill . Everything that has come after that is just a means to an end for the same.

<< These are the same type of people that send their fellow citizens to war for purely political, economic, and strategic purposes, creating an ugly "foe">>

The War was started by Sri Madhu Pandit Das and not by GBC. In the response to Sri Madhu Pandits peace proposal the reply that ISKCON Mumbai gave reads as follows :

We should be clear and honest about the legal disputes between us. The GBC has never filed any court cases against you. It was always you who filed cases against the GBC and ISKCON.

( source: http://news.iskcon.com/node/1799 )

I think it should be clear by now who went to the war for purely political, economic, and strategic purposes .

<< Devotees at Bangalore temple are not "enemies".>>

Devotees are never enemies.They are as much child to Sri Radha Madhav as I am, even more so.

<< with a different approach.>>

Again it a philosophical question that is outside the purview of the thread.

More in the next post.

Regards
Joyaditta

> So temples are important and losing even one of them does not serve the purpose .

Yes. SP was very careful about securing ISKCONs property, as seen from his letters, etc. His battle over Mumbai temple is one practical example.

Joyaditta> Is this really a question or a declaration of intentions.... starting a debate in which you are clearly positioned ?

Ritviks think that its fabulous a temple its not in the GBC'b4s control and GBC are dismayed. I see only politics here. And to put Srila Prabhupada in the middle as if you knew his mind is.... sad.

Many things could be said about Srila Prabhupada would be upset because GBC'b4s many huge mistakes like the Eleven Gurus, centralization, hinduization, BBT wages, etc etc. But as nobody can verify what Srila Prabhupada would say, best is to refrain to try to put him in your camp.

You are not interested to include philosophy in this thread because you think you have a case just by common sense, but shastra is and must be in all walks of life to understand things in the proper perspective.

And who are you anyway to restrict philosophy in relation with this problem?

Looks like you have an agenda and its not to discuss the theme, but to state your thoughts in favor of the GBC.

What a sad "question".

Putting things in the proper perspectuive...i can not see Srila Prabhupada suggesting that one of his temples ...Bangalore should not be haphasardly given away ....to be seperate or outside his society whom he gave his last will and testament to...iskcon !
However please inform me if you feel my suposition is wrong in your experienced opinion mishra prabhu...or should we open a pandoras box here by starting to judge according to our own feelings and moods?..If this is injected into an open forum, ...how should we judge wether a society is truely carring on Srila Prabhupadas service? Now we have ritviks whom amplify the sentiment...we are also serving Srila prabhupada ...though possibly heretics in a classical sense ,they also reverberate the sentiments of the dis-enfranchised element! How to judge the madhu pandit ritvik cause in a nuetral light?

Nobody has "given away". It has been separated by force. But they have their arguments. ISKCON has being in the middle of many lawsuits all over the world, practically losing them all and spending millions of dollars more cause of false ego than anything else. I know a few cases where if real advancement was there it could be settled in a gentleman way and spare much money and energy, but the ego that "we are ISKCON and automatically divine" has led to much suffering and loss of resources.

It makes me shiver when i read "krishna teme lila park will come back to iskcon" Open your eyes, you are not living in the 70s anymore. There are many vaishnava groups with different philosohical approaches.

If this thread is about the real facts, emotions and personal political stands free, then let it be so. Courts will speak.
But do not try to stop others views all the while you air yours so blatantly. And remember who originated the "question".

It has been separated by force,....This is a very important realisation and valid lesson ,mishra prabhu thank you,also this is the nature of the devotional world we face now! More and more things will be see to be true and valid by this force process,not by a common devotional culture or trial by vox populi.But by the rip and tear of the expert cheating process with which leaders may utilize.....the ends justifies the means!

<< Is this really a question or a declaration of intentions.... starting a debate in which you are clearly positioned ? >>

I am just asking questions to the members of this board regarding the move taken by Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa and his organisation. If you take that as my position, be my guest.

<< And to put Srila Prabhupada in the middle as if you knew his mind is.... sad >>

Pleas re-read my postd , I am never dragged Srila Pabhupadas name in any of my posts.

<< Eleven Gurus, centralization, BBT wages etc etc >>

Do you think these are the above-mentioned reasons for Sri Madhu Pandit Dasas leagal battle to seperate him and his organization away from ISKCON worldwide ?

I am ignorant as I might be looking at the wrong webpages. I would be thankful if you direct me to the right links.

<< You are not interested to include philosophy in this thread because you think you have a case just by common sense>>

In describing common sense wikipedia says:

"Whatever definition one uses, identifying particular items of knowledge as "common sense" becomes difficult. Philosophers may choose to avoid using the phrase when using precise language. But common sense remains a perennial topic in epistemology and many philosophers make wide use of the concept or at least refer to it."

( source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense )

As we could see that philosophers do use or atleast refer to common sense and the Gaudiya Vaishnav Philosophy is not bereft of it, I think we have a link to Philosophy here as well.

<< but shastra is and must be in all walks of life to understand things in the proper perspective.>>

Has Sri Madhu Pandit Das and his organization understood in proper perspective and are trying to chart their way away from ISKCON worldwide?

<< And who are you anyway to restrict philosophy in relation with this problem? >>

No one at all ! Please feel free to discuss it. I would get a good opportunity to ask yourself and others a lot of questions.

<< What a sad "question".>>

I am sorry you feel that way.

<< It makes me shiver when i read "krishna teme lila park will come back to iskcon" Open your eyes, you are not living in the 70s anymore >>

Have the rules changed since then?

<< If this thread is about the real facts, emotions and personal political stands free, then let it be so. Courts will speak.
But do not try to stop others views all the while you air yours so blatantly >>

Who is stopping others here?

Regards
Joyaditta

Any updates on this please.......

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/bengaluru/mid-day-scheme-iskcon-under-scanner-834

Regards
Joyaditta

I am not GBC partisan neither ritvik, the dichotomy you are trying to enlarge.

I feel you are using this thread to advance your point of view, asking a "question"
... and this is not the spirit of this forum.

I am in the awkward position of being involved in this thread and at the same time an admin here.

I feel this question must be closed... I am asking opinions here. What the other devotees think?

I have heard that gbc are giving a very hard time to MP and given that it is in India plenty of things can be done to spoil someones good name so best not to believe the papers, might be opposite to the truth.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Hare Krishna Prabhu Mishra,

Thank you for your good replies which are benificial for all. You can certainly close the question, using your own intelligence and authority.

There is actually no dichotomy when His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada is kept in the prominent position. And more and more devotees are coming to that safe, happy, eternal understanding.

FYI: The Krishna-style amusement park is an idea of Srila Prabhupadas, so let if be done for His satisfaction.

Hare Krishna

I feel the thread has been started for just propaganda against MP &amp; Bangalore and it shows that devotees have to be careful to not become so influenced by gbc as to become very narrow minded and build up hate to other devotees. I was travelling in India and in Mayapur when I expressed a wish to visit Bangalore temple the once friendly Mayapur authorities became so upset and the hate they have built up came out immediately against MP and Bangalore, and I realised that someone had done a very thorough job of anti MP views. I can understand the gbc have a lot to lose if other temples became like Bangalore but the rank &amp; file devotees should see that and also realise like Mishra says that they are devotees also in Bangalore who are trying to please Srila Prabhupada.
Thanks Mishra for bringing some balance to this thread otherwise it seems just an anti MP exercise.

Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada is every jivas eternal spiritual master based on Sri Guru Tattva; anyone can try to understand this tattva and accept Srila Prabhupada in that spirit. The ritvik idea that Srila Prabhupada is the last in Sri Guru Parampara succession is wrong. The ISKCON idea that gurus should attach souls to themselves and not Srila Prabhupada exclusively is wrong. They both have flaws and yet balance each other. When the rank and file devotees begin to understand Sri Guru Tattva, all things will be beautifully clean and auspicious. How long it takes is up to us, individually and collectively.

>

Please feel free to close this thread if it makes you feel awkward.

Its just that you feel awkward when a lay person asks you questions based on common sense, makes me sad and amused at the same time.

Since you are the admin you can execute your powers so go ahead.

>

How about believing Paul the "psychic" octopus then?

>

Please do indulge me and visit the Hare Krishna Hill as a layman and ask these questions to the devotees there. The propoganda of hatered against the GBC that those people are being fed on can rival North Korea s propoganda against the US.

As it has been a personal experience and I have not recorded any comments so I couldnot provide any active link. All I can ask you to do is to visit the temple and carry out the research yourself.

Yet to give you an instance of the high spirits there, I quote from this article :

(source :http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-09/editorials3891.htm )

" My biggest concern was with Nimai Pandit (who is in Bangalore now) and his Western friends (henchmen?). They made several statements which concerned me deeply and ultimately led me to the decision to leave the ISKCON Bangalore temple. That was, that specifically Mahapurush das and Chaitanya Simha told me that they had told Nimai Pandit when they arrived at ISKCON Bangalore that they were willing to "take out the whole ISKCON GBC", and specifically "Jayapataka Maharaja and Radhanatha Swami." They made statements about killing them. I found this to be extremely troubling and Nimai Pandit did not condemn it at all. In fact, he seemed to only encourage that type of talk and behavior. "

So , did the authorities in Mayapur tell that they were hatching a plot to kill Sri Madhu Pandit Das?

If they have, please let me know as this is definitely the mood in the camp of Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa.

>

Please go through my previous posts about the devotees.

>

I have quoted from articles from the internet which is open for everyone to see. I have absolutely no personal tussle with the gentleman and his organization.

Yet, if I am not blinded by the charisma and somehow point out something else which is not so good-looking about the person published by the newspapers and not concocted by me, why is it an anti MP exercise?

In my opening post I mentioned :

" It is very painful to see such a flagship temple severing its ties with the mother organization and so much time, energy and effort being spent which could be otherwise utilized in a good way."

Yes, it does pain me to look at the state of affairs in the temple and have started to ask questions so that I could be clear about it.

I have not seen one point-to-point answers to my questions and whats more, there is an attempt to close down the thread.

>

Such a profound understanding.

Please do the needful that your admin position urges you to do.

Please go through the posts again and think. It might be a tough call but please do indulge me.

Regards
Joyaditta

>Do you think these are the above-mentioned reasons for Sri Madhu Pandit Dasas leagal battle to seperate him and his organization away from ISKCON worldwide ?

Looks like you have lots of questions and you can get answer directly from the source http://struggle-for-truth.org/ at the bottom of the page there is Contact Address.

Misra-ji,

(I will proudly steal the line from maah!) Thank you for your good replies which are benificial for all. You can certainly close the question, using your own intelligence and authority.

Obviously, this is not a question. Please Joyaditta reads the rules.

The are many places on the Internet to advance and aerate your concerns but this is not the spirit of this site.

People tends to think that because pariprashnena.com is on the Internet can be used for anything, but this was never meant to be a propaganda instrument, not even veiled propaganda.

I hope you will understand our position, and from now on, please use this site to ask what you do not know in the spirit of pariprashnena.

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]I feel this question must be closed... I am asking opinions here. What the other devotees think?[/quote]

While I dont consider myself a devotee, I take an interest in those who apporach ISKCON and devotees.[br]
[br]So I think, based on the other threads he has started, that Joyaditta is someone who has some interest in getting closer to ISKCON and the devotees, and is showing this in a perhaps indirect manner; someone who wishes to know what all this is about and therefore asks some perhaps less obvious questions but which imply numerous other questions and issues.[br][br]
Some people, upon first learning about devotees, ask questions like "Why do you shave your heads?" or "Why do men wear skirts?". Some other people are interested in perhaps not so obvious things, or things that are considered "advanced". Myself, for example, my first concern was ISKCONs position on the original Fall and the nature of free will, but this was not met with welcome, as these are supposedly "advanced topics" that I should concern myself with only after I have successfully been a devotee for some considerable period of time.[br][br]
I dont think Joyaditta is trying to promote his position. I think he is coming from a significantly different perspective than the "average devotee aspirant".

> The ISKCON idea that gurus should attach souls to themselves and not Srila Prabhupada exclusively is wrong.

This is not ISKCON idea but a misrepresentation. Guru parampara is not about attaching souls to the guru, rather guru serves as a transparent medium all the way to Krsna.

> When the rank and file devotees begin to understand Sri Guru Tattva, all things will be beautifully clean and auspicious.

Understanding of Sri Guru Tattva goes deeper than we can delve. Our understanding will be always shallow.

Re the thread: We got both sides represented here, actually more from the pro-ritvik side, already amply discussed here, imho. One can call them both propaganda since its touchy political issue. If we wish to keep this site for philosophical and practical questions, questioners with this type of issues should be referred elsewhere.

I am not doubting the sincerity of the person or the right or wrong of his contention, but the valid approach. Imagine that everyone comes here with a "question" grounded in a preconceived answer just to start a debate to prove his point.
This kind of "questions" have been identified in the past here and as VEDA says referred elsewhere.

Dear Admin,

Your site, your rules.

I wouldnot contend with the spirit of your site.

Carry on with your fluffly discussions .

Regards
Joyaditta

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]I am not doubting the sincerity of the person or the right or wrong of his contention, but the valid approach. Imagine that everyone comes here with a "question" grounded in a preconceived answer just to start a debate to prove his point.
This kind of "questions" have been identified in the past here and as VEDA says referred elsewhere.[/quote]

I simply do not see this OP question was such a false question.[br][br]
I understood it to ask for an official statement by ISKCON on the temple in question and further temples and other facilities in a similar situation.[br]
[br]
If anything, it appears the OP question was by some posters interpreted as a false question, after which both sides got defensive and things deteriorated from there - which is no surprise.[br][br]
While the OP could simply be responded to by providing a reference to the requested ISKCON document, with little or no further discussion being necessary (and little or no hot blood).[br][br]

GBC resolution 1999, mentions Madhu Pandit d.

Having read this recent article prabhu submitted by joyaditta ...though you are personally involved mishra prabhu ,i sense you are genuinely mature enough to perceive things from a detached position .I welcome your personal veiws ...though they are different than my own .I feel blessed to have been witness to your siksa and have tried to assimulate your valid realisations.I personally do not feel this thread is in any threatening or off the track ..It seems essential for all of us to appreciate the blossoming of a possible christianity like break away movement! Sastrically inept but a vitalising group non-the less for those who share there hopes and appreciations....Thank you for allowing me this small opportunity to share...

> Sastrically inept but a vitalising group non-the less

This is an oxymoron.

Hi prabus and mathajis. im new.I dont know where should i discuss about this matter,could eveyone help me.I was told that every male iskcon devotees would become females and have sex with the lord krsna in the after life.Does anyone are aware about this?.thankyou

Here is the distinction.Ritvic philosophy is wrong but lot more right than that of the GBCs.They glorify Srila Prabhupada at every step and our Iskcon leaders like Radhanath cant even mention their spiritual master even once when interviewed on the FOX channel recently(see it on you tube).I suppose he was too busy with shameless self-promotion and shaking hands with the lady that he completely forgot to mention Srila Prabhupada and his books.That is the difference between Ritvik and GBC.

Interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WHzy3UephU

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qnFy8ljQiI&feature=related

> Ritvic philosophy is wrong but lot more right than that of the GBCs.

Just the opposite. If someone doesnt mention his guru, thats between him and his guru. (I saw a verse that one shouldnt reveal in public ones mantra and ones gurus name but dont remember the source. Anyone?)
Otoh, heresy is like a cancer, affecting the whole society.

I have listened to some of Radhanath Swami lectures, and what caught my attention the most was the way he reverentially spoke Srila Prabhupadas name, each time.

[quote][cite] Baker:[/cite]I have listened to some of Radhanath Swami lectures, and what caught my attention the most was the way he reverentially spoke Srila Prabhupadas name, each time.[/quote]

So did Harikesa,Satsvarupa,Jayatirta,Vipramukhya,Jayadvaita,Jagadisha and every darn superstar "guru" in ISKCON and each and every of their sleazy salaried "brahmana" minions .Have you not heard of these "stalwart" "dedicated" "humble""exemplary" "vaishnavas" yet ?

I can forward you some classes etc. if you will allow the history to teach you something Baker.

Dont be mislead.Snake can chant Hare Krishna but the venom remains.I hope and pray you dont get bit.

humbly

jd

I have also heard that Radhanatha spent millions of Srila Prabhupadas money on fighting with other devotees for power in courts.I have also heard that he ordered the murder of Sulachana.I have also heard about many many other suspicious things looming over his head such as sex scandals.I have also seen how he put Srila Prabhupada on the bottom of the list of his many gurus on his website.(see it for yourself)I have also never even once heard him utter the name of his spiritual master on the public television during his shameless self-promotional appearances.Clearly talking about his Jewish birth was more important to hear about for millions that were watching. He obviously uses his spiritual masters name and fame when and where it matters to him in his relentless pursuit of power.

In the words of one truly dedicated Srila Prabhupadas disciple(stated after he watched Radhanatha chanting japa in public with excruciating facial expression that employed just about every facial muscle available to man ):"I never knew that it takes so many facial muscles to chant the maha mantra sincerely".

I would add.It takes very few facial muscles to impress upon the Lord that you are sincere in your japa, but to get the money from braying materialistic asses you better use all the facial muscles youve got.Just to make sure to get every last penny out of them and perhaps more.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]> Ritvic philosophy is wrong but lot more right than that of the GBCs.

Just the opposite. If someone doesnt mention his guru, thats between him and his guru. (I saw a verse that one shouldnt reveal in public ones mantra and ones gurus name but dont remember the source. Anyone?)
Otoh, heresy is like a cancer, affecting the whole society.[/quote]

dont understand you Veda.What do you mean but "Just the opposite" and "the heresy"?

jagannath, as long as you have nothing good to say about devotees, you wont understand...

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]jagannath, as long as you have nothing good to say about devotees, you wont understand...[/quote]

Hey,just trying to teach my children by example by speaking the unpalatable truth.Perhaps than there is a less chance that my kids will take wages for their "devotional service" and worship vain power-mongers when they grow up.

You on the other hand , really faithfully practice arrogance and condescension that they have taught you .Kudos on that.

There are many devotees that i praise and glorify but it seems to become a big issue if i dont glorify a current pop idol guru that will come and go as his predecessors have done,with the bags full of money and beautiful woman under arm.And whats funny is that they are still welcome back and the ones that stood up to their nonsense are scorned and shunned.Real "vaishnava" humility in practice.

'93Our duty is therefore to be very, very careful. The venom is personal ambition.'94

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Satyabhama, January 11, 1970)

I dont believe jagannath is simply criticising for criticism sake its true all of the personalities mentioned have not demonstrated the qualities of vaisnavas and in some cases they have committed heinous crimes that have not all been accounted for and they have done a-lot of dis-service to Srila Prabhupada by bringing scandalous and illegal behaviour and destroying the faith of many bhaktas. Should they be forgiven? absolutely as we all want our sins to be forgiven, but they should recognise their position and be humble, not seek to sit on a big Vyasasana and lecture when their actions are so far different from their words.

jagannath is completely correct in his observations about Radhanaths website infact if you visit his website several things are apparent

http://radhanathswami.com/

- It is not obvious by his website that he is even a member of Iskcon the website purely promotes Radhanath as an individual
- After visiting every menu item I can only find a very small reference to Srila Prabhupada buried in the last menu item "About"
- On selecting Books from his menu one finds a massive promotion of his one and only book and NO links or reference to any of Srila Prabhupadas books
- When you select Projects on his website the "Midday Meal" project which was a project awarded to Iskcon by the Govt of India however Radanath does not mention
Iskcon once, in-fact you get the distinct impression he is solely responsible and running the whole project himself, this again is self promotion.

Infact after perusing his entire website I find only one small reference to the fact that he chose A.C. Bhaktivendanta as his guru in the About menu item. He even has the gall to state "In spite of his constant global travels over many years, Radhanath Swami established his spiritual headquarters at Radha Gopinath Ashram in Chowpatty, Mumbai." This belongs to Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada established everything in Mumbai, yes he doesnt say he built the Iskcon Temple in Mumbai but one could easily get that impression.

Radhanath is a big example of how some these Iskcon leaders place themselves above everything including Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, his website is a testimony to his attitude of self promotion, fame, adoration and distinction. No one can argue that his website is not pure self promotion its plainly obvious. There is no mention of the sampradaya and previous acharyas he follows or does not follow and not even a picture of Radha and Krishna.

I see no devotional or vaisnava humility here, no offerings to his Guru and Sri Krishna just all self promotion and this is a very poor example of Senior Vaisnava behaviour.

We have a duty not to needlessly criticize but we also have a duty to discriminate bad behaviour from good behaviour, all devotees of Krishna are simple and humble and award no merit to themselves, in-fact they award all success to their Guru and Krishna. We know this because that is how Srila Prabhupada behaved, if we follow Srila Prabhupada we cannot be cheated even by his own wayward disciples.

You can fool most of the people most of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time and you can never fool Krishna.

jagannath and manasi,

youre repeating what was already said many times over on this site, dedicated to a completely different purpose. Therefore youre OT.

Heres what one whos good at detecting faults of others should do:

1. Detect and correct ones own faults (beware, its more difficult).
2. Contact those erring persons privately and give them his well-meant feedback. See Narahari Sarakaras Sri Krsna Bhajanamrta 59-.
3. Avoid those who dont change for the better. If someone asks about them, tell ones own opinion privately.
4. Stop criticizing in public unless one wants to be also criticized in public (karma). Many online critics want to avoid that and therefore dont use their own names. Doesnt matter, they wont escape criticism when their karma ripens. Evaluate pros and cons.

If the first two arent done I call it a barking dog mentality. I havent seen it prominent in any other spiritual group nor recommended in any spiritual text. Rather, they instruct otherwise.

Specifically, I see criticism of SP disciples as an indirect criticism of SP. Since the critics dont want to criticize him directly they criticize his disciples. However, SP condemned criticism of his disciples.

"Actually," Prabhupada said, "this is a fact. One has to be blessed by a devotee to become a devotee. And he who is the servant of the servant of the servant'97one hundred times removed'97is not worse than one who directly serves the guru. If one thinks, Because I am direct servant, I am better than others, then he is not a Vaisnava. To offer ones respects to Guru and not to his disciples, this is wrong. This is not Vaisnava. One has to be humble and try to serve all Vaisnavas'97not some and not others." (Hari Sauri Dasa, A Transcendental Diary 1 - November 1975 - April 1976. TD 1-9: Sri Dhama Mayapur. January 28th, 1976.)

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Heres what one whos good at detecting faults of others should do:[/quote]

I would also add: Become aware of why one is bothered by other peoples faults and which ones, become aware of ones feelings, ones fears and concerns.[br][br]

If one formulates ones complaint like this:[br]
"This persons behavior [describe the behavior] disturbs me. I am worried that if I am supposed to look up/associate with this person, then I dont think I can do it, but I also dont want to become isolated and bitter and lonely either."[br][br]

In my experience, many people respond favorably if one expresses oneself this way, and it is also easier to find a constructive solution then.

This really is Kali Yuga we have people who present themselves as Goswamis that at the same time are into pure self promotion that is one thing, then we have people running around defending them. Amazing! I saw it all before in the 70s and its happening all over again, this time with very polished performances but performances none the less. The real Srila Prabhupada disciples do not engage in activities of self promotion.

VEDA when your old friend sgd started his blatant outlandish abuse of Narayana Maharaja (a true saintly vaisnava) which ended up getting him banned from this forum you offered up no statements against his outlandish abuse and in some cases you actually encouraged him. Now when someone points out an indisputable fact of a self promoting Iskcon swami you are all over the place with extended quotes. Its nice to see how you selectively apply your defensive reasoning. When a true saintly Vaisnava was being abused you helped sgd along with internet quotes that gave him heaps of encouragement, oh no there are no double standards around here.

manasi, I gave a general advice and I dont defend those who dont deserve it. Im promoting differentiation between devotees who want to correct themselves and those who dont. I follow this strictly whenever Im aware of a problematic person.

If youre around since 70s Id expect you to be a leader in words and actions, a transparent medium to see SP with natural authority encouraging everyone in bhakti yoga. Instead, juniors have to do your job in this forum.

Im in pains when I meet SP disciples who dont know the philosophy and ethics, do nonsense, etc. Then outside critics ask what kind of guru SP was if his disciples arent up to the mark? How to reply? I usually say that they have a free will to disobey him. Sure but misusing free will after so many years and even sometimes working against the mission? Imo, that takes lots of nondevotional influences to get to that level.

And why this addiction to public flagellation? Catholic Christians pray at the end of the Mass for their leaders. Even materialists feel ashamed to vent faults of their party leaders, etc. because it sheds a bad light on them too.

Re NM, his own statements are enough.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]And why this addiction to public flagellation? Catholic Christians pray at the end of the Mass for their leaders. Even materialists feel ashamed to vent faults of their party leaders, etc. because it sheds a bad light on them too.[/quote]

Buddhists express these concerns well too - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.073.than.html

VEDA>>Instead, juniors have to do your job in this forum.

Yep Im sorry I fail, I simply cannot help it whenever a so called emperor (of which there are many) walks past me with no clothes, I always blurt it out that he is wearing no clothes and it never ceases to amaze me how much manufactured philosophy gets thrown back at me to tell me "He is he is wearing clothes" I guess if I try really hard and get some more Iskcon association I could one day believe that these emperors are wearing fine clothing.

As far as bhuddist monks and their versions of integrity are concerned this is exactly what happened in the late 70s, 80s and the 90s even in the face of evil, the good people did nothing and swore black and blue the ones that committed these henious crimes were saintly people, they all stood by while nearly 2000 of Iskcons future (the children) were mentally and physically abused. Yes lets all be like the three brass monkeys or maybe the Italian version: "Non vedo, non sento, non parlo" (I see nothing, I hear nothing, I say nothing), expresses the Omert'e0, a code of silence enforced by criminal organizations like mafia, ndrangheta and camorra.

manasi, you either cant understand what I say or dont want to. Guess you should change your nick to strawmanasi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys from which you have quoted without reference shows that the old meaning was:

Early associations of the three monkeys with the fearsome six-armed deity Vajrakilaya link the proverb to the teaching of Buddhism that if we do not hear, see or talk evil, we ourselves shall be spared all evil (refer Three Vajra). This may be considered similar to the English proverb "Speak of the Devil '96 and the devil appears."

which is exactly my point, supported by the Sutta linked by Baker (thanks). As usual, this was perverted to turning the blind eye in the West which I dont support.

[quote]

If the first two arent done I call it a barking dog mentality. I havent seen it prominent in any other spiritual group nor recommended in any spiritual text. Rather, they instruct otherwise.

Specifically, I see criticism of SP disciples as an indirect criticism of SP. Since the critics dont want to criticize him directly they criticize his disciples. However, SP condemned criticism of his disciples.[quote]

So by that definition Srila Prabhupada was offensive and critical of his gurumaharaja when he publicly verbally criticized (and in writing) his godbrothers?

I find that your logic doesnt hold water Vedaji.

These people have hijacked the Srila Prabhupadas movement and they have been running it off course for the last 30+ years.They are not Srila Prabhupadas disciples any more.Why is it so hard to understand?

They are running this movement into the ground.Please refer to the book scores ,number of devotees joining etc. now and during the time Srila Prabhupada was with us.

You judge the tree by its fruits and not by your sentiment.

If they were faithfully following all of the Srila Prabhupadas instructions all these years we would be running this planet by now.That was Srila Prabhupadas promise.

Instead we are embracing old power hungry mad pedophiles like Kirtanananda and Bavananda and care not about the welfare of their many victims and people that left because of them.

Did it ever occur to you that you may be alienating thousands that would like to return to the house that their Spiritual master built but they cant because they would have to face their unrepentant abusers and their empty headed heartless supporters?

Those pervs should be in exile and not thousands of innocents hurt my them.

Why is your heart so cold Vedaji?

I managed to serve as an instrument in bringing my family and friends to Srila Prabhupadas lotus feet after exposing myself to extreme danger for a few years.I preached to them day and night only to see them,shortly after they joined and surrendered, being mislead,lied to,humiliated,robbed of their money,energy and proper guidance for years.Now they cant even utter the name of ISKCON without the disgust on their face.

They trusted me and they trusted the Srila Prabhupadas books and now that trust has been betrayed by womanizing,greedy,dishonest,materialistic "gurus" and "Swamis" .

Should I now go and print our all the illuminating quotes that you are so graciously sharing Vedaji and try to convince them that all the misgivings that they have are to be forgotten because vaishnavas are beyond reproach and would never do such a thing?

Do you think that would help?

Should I go to 50+ children that my predatory pedophile "godbrother" anally raped for years that is still roaming around the movement looking for more victims under the auspices of the very people that you are honoring as Srila Prabhupadas disciples and that you are trying to defend on this forum and tell them that Vedaji said that there should be no ill word uttered about the guy because he is a great kirtan leader and quite gentle mannered as well?

He is a vaishnav after all.He uttered the holy name more than once.so he should be honored as Vaishnav and carte blanche should be given to him for all the anal rape that he wishes to administer to underage kids as young as 5.

Do you think that Srila Prabhuada would condone this?

As far as I remember he was very clear as to what should be done with the rascals of similar caliber.He said that they should be killed.

Here is an example of how a kind-hearted vaishnava in the seat of supreme power is administering justice for similar heinous crimes(let this serve as a lesson to all silent and vocal supporters of the traitors of the Srila Prabhupadas mission):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEo7FbDvrjo&feature=related

Jiva Goswami praised Emperor Akbar in his Govindam Mandir Astakam (Eight Prayers in Glorification of the Govinda Temple), which is carved into the temple'92s stone. The inscription reads '93Emperor Akbar is a very kind-hearted person and a Vaishnava. I give my blessings to Emperor Akbar. In his kingdom all the Vaishnavas are living very peacefully.'94

Question remains: How can Vaishnavas live peacefully in Iskcon when questionable characters like Radanath are taking it upon themselves to forgive murderers,rapists and molesters of various sorts?

Vedaji turn your heart on,its not all in the head ji.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]And why this addiction to public flagellation?[/quote]

I think it is an example of "woundology" -[br]
brief description: http://www.halexandria.org/dward044.htm[br]
a chapter from Myss book, explaining the phenomenon in more detail: http://partners.nytimes.com/books/first/m/myss-heal.html

[quote][cite] Baker:[/cite][quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]And why this addiction to public flagellation?[/quote]

I think it is an example of "woundology" -[br]
brief description: http://www.halexandria.org/dward044.htm[br]
a chapter from Myss book, explaining the phenomenon in more detail: http://partners.nytimes.com/books/first/m/myss-heal.html[/quote]

Baker you are dismissive of others peoples pain.How gracious of you.Have you learned that non-woundology philosophy from Radhanath swami ?

He is so gracious that he takes it upon himself to forgive murderers of vaishnavas .I am not so sure that Sulochanas children would feel the same way about their daddy being shot by a coward and forgiven by _______(choose the adjective yourself).

Perhaps if you were anally raped as a child you would find it easier to understand "woundology" to the full extent.Pop psychology goes real well with impersonalism aint it Baker?

VEDA>>This may be considered similar to the English proverb "Speak of the Devil '96 and the devil appears." which is exactly my point, supported by the Sutta linked by Baker (thanks). As usual, this was perverted to turning the blind eye in the West which I dont support.

I simply chose the "todays" meaning which is also listed on the same link along with 6 other different meanings, because these are are not the old times, language and times have changed that is not a perversion that is a fact (its no longer Satya Yuga its Kali Yuga), and it so aptly fits the Iskcon we see today.

The Buddhist, Hindu & Vaisnava proverbs/stanzas etc apply to people who are genuine and sincere but have the common failings that we all do, it does not apply to gross evil acts of treachery, deceit and people who perpetrate physical and mental abuse. These people should suffer the full state laws of the day. As the other saying goes "Evil men prosper where good men fail to act" Just ask any Ex-Gurukuli that no longer believes in God due to the evil they experienced. Even Srila Prabhupada was very angry when bad things happened, not just angry with perpetrators but also angry at his disciples for standing around and doing nothing in the face of evil acts. Srila Prabhupada was not into ostrich mentality.

Iskcon even to this very day has an unwritten code of silence, those that openly speak out are shunned, physically attacked, banned and in some cases worse everyone knows this. Truthfulness, openness and transparency have been some of the biggest casualties in Iskcons short history.

jagannath,

re SP and his gurubhai, itd take some analysis what, where and how he said.
Whatever mutual criticism there was, it was among them. SP said we have nothing to do with it. Why? Because we can easily make aparadhas in this connection, not knowing the full picture.
Imitating ones guru is a sure way to problems. One should follow, not imitate.

If theres evidence, report to the police. ISKCONs absence of judicial and punitive system is a problem. Other religious group have them.

You overlook that ISKCON isnt a monastic group anymore so the numbers of devotees in temples is marginal to its full size. This is also related to the book distribution size. And books are nowadays available anywhere online which also contributes to lower sales.

Kirtanananda is out of ISKCON for years. I dont know the current status of Bhavananda. Certainly I wouldnt be embracing him but am ready to take into account his sincere apologies, reformation, etc. That doesnt mean to forget everything and act as if nothing happened.

> Did it ever occur to you that you may be alienating thousands that would like to return to the house that their Spiritual master built but they cant because they would have to face their unrepentant abusers and their empty headed heartless supporters?

For me ISKCON is in the first place the international society of devotees conscious of Krsna.
Thus I apply the above rules of viveka and do well. If someone equates ISKCON with problematic persons, thats his choice but shouldnt complain when he allows them to harm him.

My heart isnt cold although could be much warmer - for Krsna. I just try to think before speaking and put emotions where they belong.

> Now they cant even utter the name of ISKCON without the disgust on their face.

Thats a common mistake. Who harmed them? SP, his books, ISKCON... or specific persons? The same applies to gurukulis. Whom should they sue? Specific persons or ISKCON? The above rules help to avoid this pitfall, yet you criticize me and create strawmen one after another.

> ...taking it upon themselves to forgive murderers,rapists and molesters of various sorts?

Thats their choice and responsibility. You can write them and object. Who is forcing you to do the same?

> I am not so sure that Sulochanas children would feel the same way about their daddy being shot by a coward and forgiven by

Sulocanas son (?, same surname) is a well-known scholar. I guess he solved his trauma successfully.

> Perhaps if you were anally raped as a child you would find it easier to understand "woundology" to the full extent.

Id try to solve it but certainly I wouldnt be running around condemning ISKCON for actions of specific persons or trying to capitalize on my misfortune to grab Krsnas property. Many of the gurukulis didnt fall into this trap and deserve praise for that.

manasi,

these Suttas were spoken in Kali yuga, as you must know. I mentioned that this is an universal approach. In the Gospels its said that if you reveal the error of your brother, God will reveal your own. However, when the perpetrator is rightly judged, his errors are made public automatically.

> Just ask any Ex-Gurukuli that no longer believes in God due to the evil they experienced.

My above reply fits here. Was it God who harmed them or specific persons?

> Even Srila Prabhupada was very angry when bad things happened, not just angry with perpetrators but also angry at his disciples for standing around and doing nothing in the face of evil acts. Srila Prabhupada was not into ostrich mentality.

Therefore I dont support it as well.

> Truthfulness, openness and transparency have been some of the biggest casualties in Iskcons short history.

I agree that this should be much improved. Transparency is possibly the best approach to trust-building.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]manasi,

these Suttas were spoken in Kali yuga, as you must know. I mentioned that this is an universal approach. In the Gospels its said that if you reveal the error of your brother, God will reveal your own. However, when the perpetrator is rightly judged, his errors are made public automatically.

> Just ask any Ex-Gurukuli that no longer believes in God due to the evil they experienced.

My above reply fits here. Was it God who harmed them or specific persons?

> Even Srila Prabhupada was very angry when bad things happened, not just angry with perpetrators but also angry at his disciples for standing around and doing nothing in the face of evil acts. Srila Prabhupada was not into ostrich mentality.

Therefore I dont support it as well.

-------------------------------------------------

You have your emotions in "total control" Veda. Srila Prabhupada expressed his anger in these sort of situations because he cared about others and he clearly wanted us not to be aloof.
You juggle verbally to the point that all I can deduce from what you are saying is that the human suffering means nothing to you and civility and upholding social conventions means everything.
Your pain is yours and keep it to yourself-is the philosophy that you subscribe to.

If Srila Prabhupada was like that there would be no Iskcon,no books and me and you would be still eating steaks for dinner.

Luckily he was not.

Tell me Vedaji are you receiving salary form ISKCON?

Obviously you think that everyone that complains about ISKCON management and managers is a moron that didnt do his homework etc.

Well, I did call the cops,confront the leaders,their supporters,social services etc.

Guess what....nothing happened.

Pedophile is still running around,leaders responsible are still entrenched in their salaried positions and gurus are just as aloof as you are.CPO is made of the leaders that neglected the situation and on and on and on we go.

Since I have respected all the protocols and conventions and got nowhere,perhaps you can now take over and sort it out Vedaji.Maybe you get to the end of it without getting banned for life like i did.Maybe they will not give you a bad name and hang you as they usually do.After all you feel for them.You understand them.You are their supporter.

As a consequence I am not allowed to set foot in the temple as neither are my wife and children.Hilarious.

And that was good few years ago.

I still feel like the "leaders" have not paid their neglect and for punishing me for speaking the truth.I feel outraged that they let the predatory pedophile run away to India to continue his spree.CPO officer in charge was the buddy of TP and the TP and the GBC were the ones that covered up the situation.GBC is a slimeball that didnt even care about the case so he just orchestrated the escape of the perv to protect his neck.Needless to say he is still the GBC and despite the fact that nobody locally wants him to be so he is still holding on and so is the TP and the CPO in charge for the last 20 years.

Of course the victims family is not even considering uttering the holy name in this lifetime including the victim himself.No harm done.Right?

Is my family also responsible for my following the dictates of my conscience.No consideration is given to that.No harm done.Right?

They neglected to tell us that there was pedophile in our midst because he was a cheap labor they could not do without.Guy was willing to work hard for ipods and pocket change and do all the dirty work that salaried local "devotees" would not do.No harm done.Right?

I feel blessed that I am not associating with these crooks anymore but I know of many that were devastated for being treated in similar ways.

I can only pray that they get punished someday.But I am sure you will have solution in place that will sort everything out to everybodys satisfaction Vedaji.

Here is what would satisfy me.TP punished,discharged and banned.CPO punished,discharged and banned.GBC punished,discharged and banned for life.PERV dead.Just like the Akbar did,swift and fair.It would be good for them.For the society and for victims.

It would send a clear message to all so called leaders that they should not assume the positions that they cant manage in a way that everybody is protected adequately.If you slip you get punished.If you are not capable,step down.Let others do it.If you are crooked you will be punished.

It will not happen I know but you cant blame me for wanting to protect the innocents.

Would i come to the temple for the festival if they lifted the ban?NEVER!!!

Would I let my children go there? NEVER

Would I let my grandchildren go there? NEVER

Will I forgive them? NEVER

Would I be glad to be born again to avenge the innocent 8 year old victim as my service to His Divine Grace? ABSOLUTELY.WITH PLEASURE.

jagannath> as much as we understand your predicament and let you air it till now, this site was not created with this purpose.
We can advice you if you are not web savvy how to open a forum, website or blog and make a campaign if necessary but our terms of service and particular purpose are very clear.
Hope you understand and continue to use this your forum as what was intended, focused questions and answers.
This question is closed now.