Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Although Mahajana Bhishmadev had apparently lost the respectability of a teacher due to accepting financial assistance from Duryodhana (see Gita purport 2.5), many great rshis including Narada Muni and even Bhagavan Sri Krishna Himself came to listen to Bhishmadevs famous instructions he gave on his death bed. These instructions culminated in the worshipable Sri Vishnu-sahasranam. So if an apparently fallen guru/sannyasi is listed in sastra as a Mahajana and has the power of dying at will, I would definitely consider listening to his teachings.

> Are only those that he presented after the falldown to be dismissed, but those prior retain their bonafide nature?

The issue I have with this approach is deciding when the falldown began. Take for example the case of Satsvarupa. He admits his infatuation began in the late 70s. The subtle contamination was in existence and not addressed for decades. And the gross falldown happened years before the public found out. So when exactly is "after the falldown?" For me, I already struggle with limited intelligence so better to put the whole complicated and tangled lot aside and and focus on the many readily available uncontaminated teachings. Why make it harder for myself? Some may say, We can take gold from a dirty place too. Yes we can. And if you keep doing it, you will also get dirty.

Another way to look at this issue relates to the classification of the puranas in the different modes. We can read and benefit from those in rajas and tamas but are advised to ignore any statements that contradict those found in the puranas in the mode of goodness. However this work may be too complicated and bewildering for most, so for the least difficulty it is better to focus on those in the mode of goodness.

How do you know the guru/sannyasi was not fallen down to begin with? It would be a very difficult thing to pinpoint perfectly.

A teaching from any source in order to be accepted must be in sync with gss.

What if the person does not have a guru and is merely in the process of becoming familiar with sastra, so they cannot assess what is in accordance with gss and what is not?

Thats a vulnerable situation. He will need a siksa guru, the sooner the better.

But how can that person choose that siksa guru, given that they are so ignorant and incompetent?

I like Hari Sauris books and even lectures, because he represents Prabhupada. I discount the fact that he left the movement and was married after taking sannyasa and being a gbc.

By ajnata sukriti - then Krsna gives the guru and the guru gives Krsna.

Obviously, the teachings of the these fallen gurus and sannyasis did not help to remove their own ignorance.and prevent them from falling down . Its doubtful their
teaching will help anyone else. Therefore its wise to just ignore them and their
teaching.

sg, therere quite some reasons one falls down, not just ones own ignorance.

VEDA, whatever reasons these fallen gurus or sannyasis may have still
it all boils down to their ignorance.

I meant external factors.

K

The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. And who is a liberated person? One who knows Krishna. It is stated in BG, fourth chapter, anyone who knows Krishna in truth is immediately liberated, and after quitting the present body, he immediately goes to Krishna. That means he becomes a resident of Krishna Loka. As soon as one is liberated he is immediately a resident of Krishna Loka, and anyone who knows the truth of Krishna can become Spiritual Master. That is the version of Lord Caitanya. So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bonafide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka. Your next question, whether the Spiritual Master was formerly a conditioned soul, actually a bonafide Spiritual Master is never a conditioned soul. There are three kinds of liberated persons. They are called 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, and 3) nitya siddha. Sadhan siddha means one who has attained perfection by executing the regulative principles of devotional service. Kripa siddha means one who has attained perfection by the special mercy of Krishna and the Spiritual Master, and nitya siddha means one who was never contaminated. The symptoms of nitya siddha is that from the beginning of his life he is attached to Krishna, and he is never tired of rendering service to Krishna. So we have to know what is what by these symptoms. But when one is actually on the siddha platform there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha. When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic Ocean nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river. Neither is there any necessity to make any such distinction. Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha--the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter. You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated. The science of how one is liberated is explained above, but when one is liberated, there is no need of distinction whether he has come directly from Krishna Loka or from the material world. But in the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated. I hope this will clear up these points. I hope this will meet you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami P.S. I am very much anxious to hear from Janaki why she does not write?

Prabhupada didnt fell down. And many other spiritual masters like him. So I personally dont care about many falldowns... Did we ever got up? NO. If there is slightest pure chanting of Hare Krishna mahamantra (rising from flladown) - we would immediately go to spiritual world... Well, so we never have been there. So we are all fallen, right?

My thought is that better to preach to demons/atheists/mayavadis offenders - so in that case if if we fail - still there is some benefit... There are so many people who are against Krishna consciousness. And devotees - they accept Krishna consciousness, though they are of different qualification etc (but we should look on all of them with equal eye - as devotees)...

The problem - we always try to find Krishna consciousness in place where there is no Krishna consciousness...
And thus we remain on same level and do not grow spiritually... Life after life... Isnt it time to take everything seriously?
After many millions one gets creeper of devotional service from bona-fide spiritual master... But why we have to wait for another life? Some even have bona-fide spiritual master, but they do not use opportunity... Well, sukriti is there...
My personal conclusion (I might be wrong) - better to be in material world and serve here life after life, because ... everyone can serve in spiritual world... But who can serve in material world? We know many pure devotees like Narada, Prahlada - they serve in material world. For them it is no difference - material or spiritual world. There is no difference between fallen and not fallen, devotee and nondevotee... They do not discriminate between enemy and friend...
There are so many souls, jivaatmas, living beings in so many material worlds... So why we waste time discussing falldowns? Hare Krishna