Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Then more devotees should become involved and present the ideas to the GBC collectively. But even an individual devotee can do it, e.g. during yearly Mayapur meetings. But I guess itd be better to talk with an individual GBC member and convince him about the validity of your input so hed present it on your behalf. They would be more inclined to listen to their peer, no?

Until all temples include the Direction oif Management in their foundation documents as requested by Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON doesnt exist. Problem is that the DOM includes elections for GBCs, ;-)

"Does Iskcon really exist?"

interesting question.

Id say ..... yes. definitely.

1 - no
1 - yes

any more voters?

it will exist until there is a devotee trying to follow Srila Prabhupadas instructions. but I call it "internal" ISKCON to differentiate from the institution

yes and no. it exists as internal movement while only one person is trying to put Srila Prabhupadas instructions in practice, but externally I think it disappeared when the Zonal Acarya stuff took over the GBC. Deja vu of Gaudiya Math and Srila Bhaktisiddhantas instructions. So you have a c) option :)

ok
1 - no
1 - yes
1 - other

Literally - Iskcon stands for the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I dont think the international part is in debate. So what is the definition of society. One by Merriam-Webster says "3 a : an enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another b: a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests". We are a broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, collective activities and interests the most important of which is to be Krishna Conscious. To become aware of Krishna and our eternal relationship with Him as His eternal servants. And to reclaim those positions through devotional service. So literally I would say yes Iskcon exists. Now for more of a technical response that might address Direction of Management, global approach strategy, zonal acarya issues, I still say yes. "While only one person is trying to put Srila Prabhupadas instructions in practice" the soul of Iskcon, which is Prabhupadas body lives. With Prabhupadas mercy this soul will continue to animate the body and carry us past these infections and viruses that may occur time and time again. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!!!

I do think that ISKCON exists, because it means International Society for Krishna Consciousness and you have the Krishna Consciousness internationally. So yes I do think it exists.

At any given time on this planet, there is a devotee chanting the maha mantra, reading Prabhupadas books, remembering, worshiping and serving. Also, associating with other devotees as we are here on this forum. So yes, ISKCON exists.

I think that this question is related to the first question that the Constitution Committee has put out for consideration (http://www.dandavats.com/?p=4093):

"Defining ISKCON What is its purpose?"

I think that this is really two things. 1. Defining ISKCON. 2. What is its purpose.

Of course the two are interrelated.

I wrote an article about "Post-Congregational Preaching". In this article, which you can download from here: http://www.urbanmissionary.info/2004/12/23/operations-manual-for-world-domination/, I discussed the need to go beyond the "temple / congregation" metaphor that we have been using to conceive of ISKCON.

That was in 2004 - since then Ive come to recognize that post-Congregational metaphor as being "Community" - first there was an ISKCON temple with a monopoly on Krishna Consciousness, then it became a temple plus a "congregation", now it has become a "temple within a community".

Now, from this constitutional discussion, Ive come to the realization that ISKCON is a community of communities.

Heres an example: the constitutional committee is a kind of a centralizing point that can draw in all members of ISKCON to be represented and have their say in the formation of ISKCONs official constitution. It has the potential to be like the blind men feeling the elephant - contacting and exploring different parts of ISKCON - different communities in the community.

Ive asked for this process to be opened up and made more participative. I for one would be fascinated to take part in such a cross-community dialog.

Heres an example, its an email from Sesa das, the chair of the Constitution Committee, to Amara das, who is a leader of a sub-community within ISKCON composed of LBGT devotees. It came to light not through the Constitutional Committee, by through the Galva108 group on yahoo, a mailing list of the LBGT sub-community:

> Dear Amara Prabhu:

> Hare Krishna.

> Yes, of course I remember you. I hope that you are doing well. Are you still in Hawaii?

> A constitution for an organization like ISKCON certainly requires much thought to properly develop, and, in my mind would provide the type of protections for all devotees that you speak of. Of course, even if a constitution provides such protections that does not mean that much education of the ISKCON public will be required and that education may have to be combined with legal tests to insure the rights and responsibilities provided by the constitution.

> So, all in all I see it as a wonderful opportunity for all devotees to serve in the house that Srila Prabhupada built, but not without some effort.

> As we develop the document our plan is to have devotees around the world review it for the purpose of giving input about what is written and about what we may not thoroughly considered. I would be happy to share it with you when we reach that stage.

> Sesa das


So what is ISKCON? Its a community of communities of devotees bound together by common values and common ideology. What are the minimum and essential shared values to constitute membership of ISKCON? Well, thats really what the Constitutional Committee is trying to understand.

So yes, it does exist. Exactly what it is, is a conversation in progress, and I hope that this conversation is opened up further to allow us to further observe and participate.

Srila Prabhupada gave a clear mission statement for ISKCON which is outlined in the following seven points.

The Seven Purposes of ISKCON

1. To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all people in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the world.
2. To propagate a consciousness of Krishna (God), as it is revealed in the great scriptures of India, Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.
3. To bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Krishna, the prime entity, thus developing the idea within the members, and humanity at large, that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of Godhead (Krishna).
4. To teach and encourage the sankirtana movement, congregational chanting of the holy name of God, as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
5. To erect for the members and for society at large a holy place of transcendental pastimes dedicated to the personality of Krishna.
6. To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler, more natural way of life.
7. With a view towards achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, books and other writings.

----

To me its simple. Do you serve these seven purposes? Then youre in ISKCON therefore ISKCON exists.

Why to reinvent the wheel? To me the problems come from NOT following what is already there.

But as SP put it, westerners, we want to change it all, all times. That is our disease.

Again, if the DOM wasnt implemented at the given time, problems came and now we want to do it anew, from scratch?
Really, looping the loop.

And, Ill like to see how this "our plan is to have devotees around the world review it for the purpose of giving input about what is written and about what we may not thoroughly considered" statement is going to be achieved

I heard about a wiki, that as an idea is good but I am sure edit passwords will be scarcely given :)

Sorry to be doubtful of the collaboration skills of my dear GBC, but history speaks by itself, so far.

ISKCON as institution is broken to pieces.
Prabhupadas instructions still valid for whoever wants to follow.
Sorry wishful thinkers, get down to planet earth

Peterjiu, have you travelled around the world and seen how is ISKCON doing? I dont think so. ISKCON is different in every country - somewhere it runs well, somewhere less well - but that depends on its members, how they are willing and able to follow Srila Prabhupada and correct wrongs. Just complaining and criticizing wont do - thats the nature of a sudra, not a Vaisnava.

> I heard about a wiki, that as an idea is good but I am sure edit passwords will be scarcely given :)

Then anyone can use another wiki and give input there, no? The point is how much of that feedback can be used, i.e. quality.

Or as Krishna would put it, for someone who has some nads:

kutas tva kasmalam idam?
visame samupasthitam
anarya justam asvaragam
akirti-karam arjuna

Wherefrom have these impurities come upon you, O Arjuna? They are not at all befitting one who knows the value of life. They lead not to the higher planets, but to infamy.

klaibyam ma sma gamah partha
naitad tvayupapadyate
ksudram hrdaya daurbalyam
tvaktvotishta parantapa

O son of Prtha, do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not become you. Give up this petty weakness of heart, and arise O chastiser of enemy!

:-)

Yes, I have travelled to the satiation. No problem of blindness or uncouthness.

First you have to acknowledge an error to be able to fix it.

Problem is that you stop in "oh you are criticizing, you are shudra"

and then do nothing. I can tell you what I am doing, first thing try to show the plain truth, **ISKCON is down to smithereens**.

But it is more comfortable to put your head in the sand, and say, all is well, or not so bad... huh?

I want to help to fix ISKCON but that is just not done by being agreeable and condescend.

And overall "kill the messenger" because brings bad news.

Nobody promotes heads in sand. Everyone here knows that things are not ideal. But the consciousness counts.
Do what you are able at your position to improve things. And pray for others.

How can I expect my input to be received if in the first place I am not in the "club", I can write 10 wikis, probably a waste of time.

Openness is shown clearly from the beginning as in this site. Others just do say "I am open" lip service, then censor at hearts content.

Being there. Done that.

As you say, there is strong inclination to hear peers (whatever this means to them).

We should hear what is said not who says it, but unfortunately, "who says it" prevails and can have support of the elite.

If you try you will smash your dream like a flea in a windscreen. Try it, youll see what I mean.

Ive written to the Constitutional Committee chairman to request that the process itself be opened up, so that there can be discussion in the community and between the community and the committee around the submissions.

My comment requesting this on a prominent website was censored. :-)

Id like to think that a Constitutional Committee that aspires to represent the integrants of ISKCON would be open, and Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you have forgotten, Sesa das published a very nice article demolishing the basis of the dishonest collections not so long ago. He seems like a man of integrity.

So this is the classic, yes you can have an opinnion but no one will care about it and if you are against what we do you are out of the system.
It seems to me like what the illuminati do.

Here is the reference:

A Personal Reflection on Virtue and Values in the Krishna Consciousness Movement

http://www.prabhupada.org/rama/?p=3932

Please read this, and I request that everyone refrain from passing premature judgment on either the Committee or the people on it. How can there be any positive change if we insist that everything must remain the same? I personally feel that Sesa das *is* the man for this job.

Is that your Constitutional Committee message? I was about to ask you to upload it as an attachment or something.

earlier I said: "Ive written to the Constitutional Committee chairman to request that the process itself be opened up, so that there can be discussion in the community and between the community and the committee around the submissions.

My comment requesting this on a prominent website was censored. :-)"

After some discussion on this matter with the admin of the website, it was "uncensored". You should be able to find it easily enough. :-)

Ill upload my Constitutional Committee message after theyve had time to consider and reply to it.

..of course it does.