Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Maybe its the nonsense thought: if i surrender........ what would happen???? 2 ME!!!!!!"

...and book distributors burnt themselves telling lies, half truths and a whole array of stupid techniques meant to squeeze peoples money away,

Of course I do not really blame them, I blame the leaders that instituted such a rajo guna money maker schemes and consciousness. Names withheld.

For one that tasted book distribution with truth in his lips, there is no question of ever leaving the service.

Devotees agree that there is very little taste in such fake sankirtana and tend to leave it sooner or later... Its better to support the temple by a honest business venture than this, imho. Did you know that many Catholic monasteries run such businesses (usually selling agro products or handicrafts)?

and forget about bd? easier it is...

Strawman. I just compared a cheating bd with honest business.

You know what SP said about honest street sweeper vs. spiritual business like showing deities (which can degenerate into extorting money for darsanas and pujas; I guess youve seen that going on in India).

it isnt, you only think it is, see : " N O R T H A M E R I C A N S A N K I R T A N N E W S L E T T E R " just posted on Dandavats

not dead, just agonizing, see chart:
[p]
[img]http://jaganat.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/sankirtan2.jpg[/img]

I hope it gets higher and not lower

What about putting in practice whats in the books?
Wheres cow protection?
Wheres FFL?[No one should go hungry at a 10 mile radius of a temple!]
Wheres harinam?
Wheres self-sufficient communities?
Wheres good Deity service?
Wheres gurukulas?Everyone sending their kids to "slaughterhouses"!
Where are the real brahman community?Most go to work!
Wheres honesty?Transparency?Cooperation?
What can we show to the "karmis" as a better society?

Its good to distribute books,but best if devotees gather to discuss their contents together:istagosthi!

Not best and worse here, all good. All comes together with a sane mind. problem is....

revised Gita

Also, we must take into account when viewing the chart above, that there are many book distributors who do not send in their scores. Dont get me wrong that is not to say that sankirtana activities have not diminished since the 70s but..just a consideration.

Because the Books have changed, the shakti of the author is no longer present, therefore resulting in decreased numbers of distribution.

Its not dead. Depends on a place.

visaya 1: All Eastern bloc countries have books translated from 2nd editions.
visaya 2: There are thousands of devotees there and increasing.
siddhanta: Your theory doesnt hold water, Priyavrataji.

Maybe devotees there just dont know the books have no shakti. That would explain it...

The internet is not on that chart. So many Krishna conscious sites are there and people read that.

[quote][cite] Priyavrata das:[/cite]Because the Books have changed, the shakti of the author is no longer present, therefore resulting in decreased numbers of distribution.[/quote]

as Veda-ji pointed out, that is not really it. Maybe some devotees do not go out with these books on sankirtan because they feel strongly about the changes? But old books are available too and some devotees distribute only those books.

Books are not very popular these days. Today the brihat mridanga is the internet - a fact not very well understood in Iskcon.

All in all devotees distributed well over 100 millions of Prabhupadas books, yet our movement is still barely visible on the worlds religious scene. Other religions are growing much more rapidly and we are barely holding our ground.

The movement is growing in places where there are enthusiastic devotees. In the US devotees are very divided and engaged in bitter disputes - who is inspired by that? There are so many Prabhupadas disciples here, yet the movement is dwindling. If it was not for the Indian congregation most of the temples would have closed down years ago. Books dont make devotees - devotees make devotees.

> Today the brihat mridanga is the internet - a fact not very well understood in Iskcon.

This is a big topic: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/site/nethistory.htm
The cause is acintya to me.

> All in all devotees distributed well over 100 millions of Prabhupadas books, yet our movement is still barely visible on the worlds religious scene. Other religions are growing much more rapidly and we are barely holding our ground.

As per WSN its well over 400 millions.

To analyze this comprehensively would be very interesting. Organization-wise one of the big factors is a secondary status of follow-up and congregation development - in past and in some places until present. To illustrate:

JPS once told how during one Kumbhamela he overheard a talk of some swamis in their groups tent. They said that ISKCON is great since its sowing and theyre harvesting...

> Books dont make devotees - devotees make devotees.

Both do. Therere people who got a book somehow, started to practice on their own and met devotees only later.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Organization-wise one of the big factors is a secondary status of follow-up and congregation development - in past and in some places until present. To illustrate:

JPS once told how during one Kumbhamela he overheard a talk of some swamis in their groups tent. They said that ISKCON is great since its sowing and theyre harvesting...

> Books dont make devotees - devotees make devotees.

Both do. Therere people who got a book somehow, started to practice on their own and met devotees only later.[/quote]

Yes, we are good at getting people interested in Vedic culture (with books and preaching), but for various reasons our follow-up leaves a lot to be desired. It is not just poor organization that is to blame - there are much more serious reasons as well. People may start with our books but they often end up in another camp or give up their interest in KC after learning more about our movement.

All this being said, book distribution is still a very essential element of our preaching and should be encouraged by all means.

Personally Im internally conflicted because I want to distribute Srila Prabhupadas books, but Im afraid of what I would be getting innocent people into. I dont think Srila Prabhupada would be pleased with what ISKCON has done since he left his body. There has been so much abuse, and although I try to get beyond it, I am repeatedly reminded of terrible things that have happened to nice people. We can say its their karma, but I dont think its devotees job to dish out karma to those who have come to engage in devotional service. Im afraid of the leadership.

A few years ago I questioned the lavish glorification of an unrepentant child molester invited to our temple community by some of the most popular gurus in ISKCON, and instead of getting a reasonable explanation, I was threatened, condemned, and ostracized. These gurus had reputations for being proponents of child protection, but were glorifying this child molester just after we had auctioned off most of our farm equipment to pay our share of the child abuse settlement! Our community has many debts with local businesses, and I think the locals expected to get paid after the auction, but of course that didnt happen. Instead we are taking on more debts for frivilous purchases. Therefore if we want to preach, we have to go far away to do it. Only once in the five years Ive been here has a harinam party gone out less than 45 miles away, and that time one well-known devotee got so scared that he got out of our car and walked a mile back to the temple.

After I had my conflict with the temple authorities, I had to accept all the fault and beg forgiveness so I could come back. It was quite sick, really, how I had to twist my mind. Devotees in leadership positions were making arguments completely contrary to statements in Srila Prabhupadas books, but I was simply taken as offensive because I had found fault with "gurudev," although really I was just asking for an explanation consistent with Srila Prabhupadas teachings. If they had greater spiritual knowledge, I wanted to be let in on it, but they took it as an attack and retaliated. The mind games are insane and the politics can get very dirty. If I regard "gurudev" as a pure devotee and feign appreciation for everything his disciples do to deify him, everythings cool, but if I question anything, then my family and I get treated like demons. Srila Prabhupadas books are inconceivably wonderful, but how can I hand a book to someone when the politics at my local temple is so freaky? Thats whats holding back my book distribution.

Good point Kula-pavana prabhu, you say "All in all devotees distributed over 100 million of Prabhupadas books, yet are movement is barely visible on the worlds religious scene". The distribution numbers are there to some extent, yet the results are not. People arent flocking to the temples to join up, as it once was while Srila Prabhupada was physically present. Do you think it responsible to honestly ask ourselves why that is prabhu? Its a very important matter. Is it not? Why is this happening? Theres something wrong here. It just doesnt add up. Something is obviously missing. The results are not there despite numbers. As Srila Prabhupada said so many times; "We judge by the results". The truth of the matter is that the results of Iskcons activities over the years have apparently fallen short of what Prabhupada had hoped for after His physical disappearance. Actually, He knew what would take place in His movement after His departure. The Jagat Guru knows past, present and future. The only choice we have at this point is to ask ourselves why? Why is this? Thru sincerity and the grace of Prabhupada and Krsna, we will come to the realization of whats happening..

[quote][cite] Priyavrata das:[/cite] Do you think it responsible to honestly ask ourselves why that is prabhu? Its a very important matter. Is it not? Why is this happening? Theres something wrong here. It just doesnt add up. Something is obviously missing. [/quote]

Yes, I think we must analyze this situation with real honesty and utmost humility - it is perhaps the no.1 issue facing our movement. Different devotees have different answers to that question but the real answers can only be verified in practice. There is no use creating myths or twisting the historical facts about our movement.

I do not think that there is just one reason or one answer. Much more than one thing went wrong in our movement and many of these problems manifested themselves even when Srila Prabhupada was still here.

It is not that only OUR books are not being sold.

* 58% of the US adult population never reads another book after high school
* 42% of college graduates never read another book
* 80% of US families did not buy or read a book last year.
* 70% of US adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years
* 57% of new books are not read to completion.
* Most readers do not get past page 18 in a book they have purchased.

some more
http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____192617.asp
people are reading less and less books WORLDWIDE

people read less books but we read a lot of stuff. forums, news etc.

ironic article
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/16/if-jobs-says-people-dont-read-anymore-does-this-headline-rea/

... this is the age of Kali,self-realization is not too much of a priority in peoples lives,there are far fewer devotees today than there was in the late 60s and 70s,most books are sold to Indian life-members as a novelty.

There is one simple root cause. The same one that Srila Prabhupada indicated caused all the trouble in the Gaudiya Math. It is -- Disobedience of the Order of the Spiritual Master. Every problem may be traced back to this.

I would like to thank the cont so-called leadership in Australia and esp those very very very "compassionate" leaders in saffron who of course can renounce everything!!! even devotees!
its probably just part of the process - we get preached at by them.....
cuz we all know its a act of process, not love or intelligence/knowledge

"ITS A PROCESS"

if we intro a book like Srila Prubhupada introduced the practice like intro a process/science akin to the way HDG did thats one thing, but to describe it AS A process seems like its reduced lessened and causal.
Every other devotee (esp a lot of their disciples and book dist) i get around to listening to, also spout the same conditioning its a process. if i was new i would think - process equals slow or something, based on mechanical endeavor not Gurus mercy.
When its intro by great teachers it becomes a symptom of BHAKTI not a excuse or somthing devotees "explain" when discouraged
:-)

its a process listening to these great knowers of the truth Devamrita/Riami/Prubhuvishnu Swamis

Hare Krsna.

www.sastradana.com
(book dis)
---------
anyway maybe ppl not like buyin books generally.

maybe we can open a bookshop.

Book are not distributed because the leaders dont emphasize book distribution any more.They want easy money for decadent lifestyles and Hindus are easy to cheat so they go on getting money easy way instead the way they used to.Most of their followers are not reading Srila Prabhupadas books hence there is no enthusiasm.

I heard the story recently from one devotee that joined Haridas Shastri group about his visit to the local ISKCON temple where he was accused of betraying Srila Prabhupada after being top sankirtan devotee and TP for a many years.He had enough good sense left to point out to the accuser that he is not sure about who is disobeying Srila Prabhupada more since all the bookshelves in Iskcon temple were lined with the books of various gurus but there was not even one of Srila Prabhupadas book being displayed anymore.

Despite changes these books still have some potency( I am very much against changes btw.) since Srila Prabhupada said that if they read only one line their life will become perfect.So there are quite a few lines unchanged there.Some potency remains.No doubt.Just as in Bible,albeit less and less.

Most people amuse themselves with rubbish like that written by Satsvarupa or shameless self-promotion like that of Radhanatha and numerous others to be able to find the time to immerse themselves in the nectar painstakingly written and given to us by Srila Prahupada.

Others choose to read books of Narayan M. and since he is quite different to Srila Prabhupada they soon loose the taste.Dont argue me on this because I will give you such preponderance of proof that you will have to remain silent.

For some Srila Prabhupada was to strong in stating the truth as it is so they avoid his books except when trying to find faults in it.Mostly for feminists,lesbians,gays and their lackeys like Hridayananda das.

GBC is too busy changing and "perfecting" the words of their guru to be able to sell them as they are.How can you sell something you have no faith in?Hard indeed.They rather try and push their own books thru their disciples while Srila Prabhupadas ones are being "perfected" by characters like Jayadvaita.Perhaps when Jayadvaita finishes with his job they will be ready to go again.

To every proponent of "living guru" theory they hold little or no value coz who needs a dead guru when they can have a live one telling them what to do.Odds are that those "live ones" will not last very long , but still "live ones" are so adamant about knowing it all and having to digest and "perfect" every one of Srila Prabhupadas words for you so what is the use of you reading and thinking for yourself anymore.What was the use of Srila Prabhupada writing the books in the first place as the law books for the next 10 000 years if they are so easily replaced by Satsvarupas nonsense diary(read:mental vomit) advertizing poems of homosexual lunatic Francisco Lorca and listening of Jazz music during early morning hours for better japa concentration.

In order to distribute Srila Prabhupadas books someone would need to be acquainted with the content within them but that of course will threaten the GBCs current agenda.

Living in US and involved with the book distributors and book distribution I say for myself that I see not only is the books scores increasing, but more importantly the number of book distributors is increasing. We have a very large number of book distributors here, almost all are grihastas, and many of such scores are not reported.

One reason of the increase in the US is due to the mercy of Vaisesika Prabhu and others such as His Holiness Radhanath Swami who instructs many of his disciples and aspiring disciples to go on book distribution.

For example the large Toronto temple is doing better with book distribution then they practically ever did in history.

The factual numbers does not support the assumption. Since the decline after the centennial which ended in the year 2000 it has been only increasing.

If one person due their sincerity can make such a huge difference then why cant you and I do the same?

We can ask ourselves how can we facilitate ever increasing book distribution and act as well.

Aindra dasa who left recently said, that in heart of book distribution - aim and purpose of books - is to engage on in sankirtana yajna - harinama sankirtana. Chant Hare Krishna mahamantra always...
So I think it is better to do world sankirtan - in every town and city...
We simply have to buy some 7 000 000 000 karatalas and give them to each and everyone person in this world...
This is order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu - that everyone within this material world -
to become Krishna consciousness... And make these Ratha-Yatras in every town and city all over the world... Why not?? ;-)))
Hari Bol! Well, and books can go along with that (in my humble oppinion)...

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite]people read less books but we read a lot of stuff. forums, news etc.[/quote]

If we look at the history of reading (an interesting, informative and easy-to-read acount is Alberto Manguels "History of reading"), the culture of reading is connected with a culture of talking about what people have read. There has to be an interactive element between the readers themselves, and between the authors (or other authorities) and the readers for there to be a living culture of reading. Reading is both a solitary as well as communal activity.[br][br]

Traditionally, schools and book clubs or reading societies have fulfilled those needs.[br]
Lately, the internet is doing so at least in part. Many websites are built exclusively for this purpose (such as forums), others (like blogs and news sites) have a section for comments.[br][br]

But with devotees, Im afraid that reading is more of a solitary culture, as talking about what one has read is limited and can quickly earn one the accusation of "mental speculator" or takes place in a chop-chop style, ie. how to silence the other person asap.[br]
Maintaning a solitary reading culture is difficult, so it is not surprising that people read fewer books, less of anything that would really make them think and about which they would like to talk with others.

Baker, you describe only the kanistha devotee reactions.

Then if book distribution is struggling this is because there are so many kanistha devotees.
This is not necessarily bad, in the sense that a kanistha devotee is still better than someone with no devotional inclinations.

(Although the question then is how to appreciate kanistha devotees.)

I meant the mental speculator and silencing.
Yes, better something than nothing.
By realizing that they do for the mission of Sri Caitanya as much as their conditioning allows. (This is rather an universal thing.) They need encouraging association of more advanced devotees teaching them both philosophy and ethics by personal example.

I mean with 7 m. books sold it is hardly "dead" -- is there any author that sells 7m. books after he stopped writing 30 years ago. It is doing rather alarmingly well. All glories to books distribution started by Srila Prabhupada himself. Jay!

Book distribution is so much fun. A group of us went out last weekend and I approached this family. I was turned down and asked if they would just like to give a donation as they left, rejected again.

Second later a 8 year old boy in the family ran back to me and handed me a dollar as I handed him a book.