Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

1. Already defined by Srila Prabhupada
2. Difficult one, GBC appoints gurus, gurus have the absolute power given by divine grace, hmmmm
3. That comes from fear of splits and authority crisis only. Fix that and the rest will be OK.
4. All things clear, no responsibility beyond the fair one and no encroaching of newbies assets on their arrival.
5. I think the problem comes in the "rights" part. Overall make the leaders accountable (TP and GBC elections might come handy for that one).
6. Judges are paid for that, you know. Just let the police do their work and never whitewash some "Prabhu" illegal activity. We will be doing OK then..
7. Srila Prabhupada set it up nicely, now we want to change, OK, if you insist, but do not come to me crying after :)

Iskcon Law is sufficent for now,but Iskcon Law is not being administerd or enforced,because if it was the GBC would have to follow it,something they refuse to do.
Sesa is just looking for something to do with his time.So what if they make a "constitution" this is totaly meaningless endeavor,I am sure it will be full " GBC...GBC...GBC..." who cares?

If to follow something or not depends on a voluntary decision then it may be called a directive or so. Laws are enforced.

But arent constitutions supposed to be made by the people and for the people and not to benefit those already at the top?

Constitution means "make up". have a look at the questions again - they are questions about how ISKCON is made up - who makes it up, and what kind of structure does it have? The idea is to align the official organizational structure with the reality of the situation in order to further facilitate the growth and organizational evolution of the movement as it evolves into a society.

how is this developing?

All institutions, no matter how well studied they are, are not better than the individuals that compose them and use them as tools.
Sorry, we are not going to discover magic ah'e1 formula here. We depend on the spiritual advancement and mature managerial abilities of the elite.

so what is the use then?

mishra:
"All institutions, no matter how well studied they are, are not better than the individuals that compose them and use them as tools."

...in other words, its up to you. :-)

"7. Over the past thirty years there have been many committees formed to write a constitution for ISKCON but they have all failed to come to fruition. It has to be assumed that the reason for such failure is that the GBC does not really want a constitution that would hold them accountable to Srila Prabhupada'92s instructions; therefore they relegate the task of writing it to bureaucratic shuffles and endless equivocations. Otherwise, why are so many stalwarts of ISKCON publishing book after book and yet the whole movement remains powerless to write a constitution? An ISKCON constitution is a relatively simple affair to write since it consists more or less on simply formalizing Srila Prabhupada'92s given instructions. So why should all the Vaisnava pandits of ISKCON be unable to write such a document after thirty years? Now the writing of the constitution is being brandished by the GBC as part of a much-vaunted '93Strategic Planning'94 brainstorm. Unfortunately, it is little more than another public relations ploy meant to stoke the flagging enthusiasm of an increasingly despondent membership. A proper constitution will not see the light of day unless all those who will give their lives to its fulfillment have a voice on what it should contain. That voice should be as a vote on ratification."
from Vishvambhara das participating ex-member of the subcommittee for writing Iskcon constitution http://jaganat.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/open-letter-to-the-committee-for-an-iskcon-constitution/

constitution: "the fundamental law of a nation, state or organization, which may be written or unwritten, establishing the character and conception of its government, laying the basic principles to which its internal life is to be conformed, organizing the government, and regulating, distributing, and limiting the functions of its different departments, and prescribing the manner and extent of the exercise of sovereign
powers. such a charter of government derives its authority from the governed."

source: Blacks law dictionary

constitution:something Sesa das does with His spare time that will not change anything or improve Iskcon in any way.

constitution: the way in which a thing is composed or made up; makeup; composition.

source: dictionary.com

Just went to Sesa Prabhus house two days ago when Radhanatha Swami was there. Lots of devotees went. He opened up his house and hired a devotee caterer. There was standing room only in order to see the Maharaja who spoke in the living room. I didnt count the cars or the devotees but maybe 100 cars or more? Afterwards H H Radhanatha Swami spoke at the Sunday Feast too in similar packed circumstances. Somebody has to maintain the status quo. He seems to be loved by the devotees, Radhanatha Swami.
While a devotee was waiting to use the bathroom after prasadam to wash up he told me that Radhanatha Swami was in India before he joined and was sitting at the back of a pandal program and Srila Prabhupada saw him sitting there with his long beard. He told the devotees to invite him up on stage to chant Hare Krishna with them and that is how he joined.
Apparently it was quite a large pandal program and Srila Prabhupada wasnt in the habit of always inviting just anyone with long hair and a beard up onto the stage during programs so who can understand the activities of a pure devotee?

He is patita- pavana, most merciful TO THE MOST FALLEN....

...readers may recall Sesa dass " Interview with chairman of the GBC constitution committee " of July 13th posted in Dandavats,we seen an update August 14th,but havent heard anything since then.most likely we will necer hear from Sesa again.

hariharibol, hello... Sesa specifically said that you wouldnt hear anything further until March 2008.

"October to March 2008 - revising the initial work based on comments received March 2008 - Presentation to the GBC Body of revised initial work Post March 2008 - Period of Public Comment, Revisions, Final product GBC Body for Final Approval."

ref: http://www.iskconconstitution.com/node/73

PS: Whats with the CAPS?

Caps corrected by admin.Please remember cyber courtesy.

..thanks for that update Sitapati Prabhu,
I dont believe that letter was posted on Dandavats and until now wasnt aware of the web-site link you have provided

The caps were used to emphasize the lack of communication by the GBC on Constitutional progress thanks again for sharing your
correspondence with Sesa Prabhu.

I just discovered this site re managemant:

http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/PresiContent.html

I think it might help...

Thanks but I had to personally bust into a safe and dig out "Srila Prabhupadas will" from Hansaduttas safe in 1985, and when I copied it and circulated it, no one else had seen it. The first problem seems to be that important documents were not circulcated or discussed. thanks puranjana dasa (aka pada)

http://blog.myspace.com/52199499

PADA music:
http://www.myspace.com/trancelooper

PADA music videos:
Hare Krishna (Hip Hop mix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBi_Qj9cJko
Hare Krishna (Take me higher mix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wqSLwNX8HQ
Hare Krishna meditation (slow jam mix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIsUnAOt_w

History of ISKCON videos:
Hare Krishna history pt.1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxKzh1FwdHw
Hare Krishna history pt.2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WvcT5wmykU
Hare Krishna history pt.3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MStIkmbtcj0
Hare Krishna history pt.4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS0k9dCpVVo

PADA'92s current artworks projects

Krishna
"http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e282/pada1008/krishna-1-1.jpg"
Baby Jesus
"http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e282/pada1008/Baby-Jesus-1.jpg"
Laksmi (not finished)
"http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e282/pada1008/lakshmi-1.jpg"
Ganesha (not finished)
"http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e282/pada1008/Ganesha-1.jpg"

List of Prabhupadanuga centers:

http://www.prabhupadanugaspress.com/PrabhupadanugasContactlist.html

...I have just read " Report from the 3rd day of the GBC meetings 2008 "

Iskcons Justice Minister Sesa das says : " ISKCON needs a constitution: ISKCON is complex international society with many projects and people bound by a grand mission given by Srila Prabhupada. To give shape to that, a constitution is necessary. Srila Prabhupada has also talked about a constitution for ISKCON. The present paper is not intended to be a legal document; but is rather more inspirational and foundational."

Isnt it more important that Iskcons already existing Iskcon Laws be enforced and applied to the management of all Iskcon temples ?

The willingness to follow ISKCON laws (or constitution for that matter) is not all pervading in ISKCON, which lacks ways (and esp. willing leaders with an up-to-date and multi-sided information on the situation) to enforce them. This is the main problem in this regard, imho.

So this is all a waste of time then

...yes Abhiram Prabhu,its all a waste of time,Sesa says it will be " inspirational and foundational " who do these people think they are fooling?
Sesa has the audacity to call himself the " Justice Minister " year after year,meanwhile he makes no attempt to see that Iskcon Law is respected and followed in all of Srila Prabhupadas temples.The Constitution Comitee is just another GBC joke.

Its a volunteer movement, so it cant be anything more than inspirational. As soon as you start trying to force people to do things (they way you want them to), youll suddenly find more people standing outside your "institutional boundaries" than inside.

The way to gain influence is through helping people. Brahmanas give good advice and people have better lives by following it. Thats what Srila Prabhupada brought, and thats what we need to continue. We need to give good guidance to individuals and communities to help them to grow organically in a healthy way. This is the function of the output of committees such as these.

...has anyone heard anything about this wonderfull Constitution the GBC is working on ?

yes, what happened to all this?

They are discussing it now in Bombay Juhu - they can not agree on what is spiritual and what is managerial authority and how to change Prabhupadas will, so that ultimate managerial authority (GBC) will become supreme spiritual authority of ISKCON. Hard one to crack...

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]They are discussing it now in Bombay Juhu - they can not agree on what is spiritual and what is managerial authority and how to change Prabhupadas will, so that ultimate managerial authority (GBC) will become supreme spiritual authority of ISKCON. Hard one to crack...[/quote]

That should be simple if they considered the varnashrama model: spiritual authority brahmanas, managerial authority - kshatriyas. But they want to be both.

Actually, most of them are vaishyas at best. Where is their kshatriya honor and sense of justice, where is their brahminical purity, austerity, and truthfulnes??

[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite][quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]They are discussing it now in Bombay Juhu - they can not agree on what is spiritual and what is managerial authority and how to change Prabhupadas will, so that ultimate managerial authority (GBC) will become supreme spiritual authority of ISKCON. Hard one to crack...[/quote]

That should be simple if they considered the varnashrama model: spiritual authority brahmanas, managerial authority - kshatriyas. But they want to be both.

Actually, most of them are vaishyas at best. Where is their kshatriya honor and sense of justice, where is their brahminical purity, austerity, and truthfulnes??[/quote]
I did not mean hard one to crack in theory I meant hard one to crack in practice.. Tell us more about the sense of justice - does it mean that brahmanas do not have as much and are too objectively following the sastra? Anyway it will be interesting to see how they will come out of this one, it will be so obvious -- so hard to hide

Sometimes the brahmanas are too merciful to have a sense of justice. They are too humble, too forgiving. It is not their mood to dispense justice in a cold and calculated way, which is the only way that benefits society in the long run.

Can you imagine a true kshatriya sense of justice applied to Iskcon child abusers for example? It should have been there, but all kshatriyas in Iskcon were reduced to the role of vaishyas and sudras, or kicked out of the temples. Crooks can only prosper in the absence of kshatriyas and brahmanas. Brahmana role is to expose the crooks (truthfulnes), and kshatriya role is to punish them properly. These are natural divisions of society created by Krsna and nobody (not even GBC) should interfere with that.

...doesnt really matter what GBC does , they are half crazies and half demons,proffesional cheaters being bank-rolled by thousands of foolish indians.

"October to March 2008 - revising the initial work based on comments received March 2008 - Presentation to the GBC Body of revised initial work Post March 2008 - Period of Public Comment, Revisions, Final product GBC Body for Final Approval."

...just what i thought , the cheaters and the cheated.

There is a draft now out for your comments. Write to pancharatna@gmail.com to get your copy for comments.