Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

do you know this?

http://www.iskcontech.com/

[p]

this forum has a wiki available too:
[p]
http://wiki.pariprashnena.com
[p]

[color=red][b]Preaching Strategies special wiki is now located here:[/b][/color]
[p]
http://www.pariprashnena.com/pmwiki

That one I had on my mind. Now lets see if there is any interest. Using internet for talking and sharing is nice but imho Srila Prabhupada would be esp. interested in using it for organized preaching (like we have organized skt, etc.).

"We should always be eager to find out such nice ways to spread this Movement. This will automatically bring joy to the devotees as well as to the nondevotees." (SP letter to Jagadisa - Bombay 17 November, 1970)

Dear Veda

How do you see organized Internet preaching working

A while ago there were a few attempts to use Skype, internet conference telephone calls (which are free), for preaching. It seems to have stopped now.

Thanks. I know about the Skype thingy, took a part in few sessions. Nice attempt.
The namahatta.org attempt to have a space devoted to this also lacked participation.

Few ideas from my friends expanded:

- many temples and projects repeat the same basic information about history, philosophy, practice, etc. These could be easily linked to articles at krishna.com, thus saving rented webspace and increasing traffic
- they also rent domains, sometimes expensive ones, while they could be hosted at one place like Krishna.com (that was the idea of iskcon.net). These domains often end up as expired.
- until that happens, interconnect online projects in a webring hosted at Krishna.com
- listing of devotees willing and able to help with ideas, design,tech support, promotion, etc.
- proactive presence in forums, blogs, etc. (first ascertaining current situation and then making plans and assignments)
- increased presence at Wikipedia (ditto), not only in Hindu section
- etc.

After accumulating some initial but solid ideas in a wiki a handful of volunteers would start to promote the wiki and contact webmasters (webservants) and other online devotees and asking them to take part. Itd have to be a grassroots effort, not a company like in the past.

It does seem that the internet is strewn with failed or abandoned attempts at online preaching. It takes a long term commitment and an ability to keep up with the technology if you want to keep up with the internet.

There are many sites around the world wide web that provide information about Krishna consciousness but as you say they mainly contain the same basic information. There is little structure and in some there is misinformation.

what about a Krishna.com that has templates for web sites, hosted by Krishna.com with graphics and other resources available to help people make them.Then the people making the sites have imediate access to bonafide information. just a thought anyway.

l like the idea of experts to answer questions and encourage interested people. I have a concern about the quality of the party providing the answers and encouragement. You couldnt just let anyone provide the answers, or perhaps you would need guides who help people move toward the correct conclusions. What does anyone think about that.

A lot of effort has already been wasted in the experiments that have already been tried. Blogging seems to be very popular. Its one thing to post slabs of information but whether people can access and make use of it is another.

In business they call it quality of service. Planning to deliver your service in a shape that best fits the requirement and continuing to monitor it and changing it when it isnt hitting the mark anymore. This is the nature of Internet based services.

Thats why the idea of Krishna.com as a hub which allows people to find other related services is interesting. In that way at least you could ensure some standard as well. I think that is a called a portal.

It would be interesting to hear of anyones actual ideas on possible projects that the teams and resources Veda outlines above would participate in.

this site (and wikipedia is a huge example of it) is based on trust. If someone says something trivial or nonsensical, we trust people will filter out as self-evident.
And in the midtime we take advantage of the worldwide sadhu sanga huge potential.

There has been discussion on some of these issues in threads here: http://groups.google.com/group/worldsankirtan/

Personally I think that a principle that we can adopt to foster coordination in internet preaching is that projects should be conducted in the open. This way others can learn from them and build on them. It can help people to discover potential synergies and identify duplication of efforts.

[cite] abrennan:[/cite]It does seem that the internet is strewn with failed or abandoned attempts at online preaching. It takes a long term commitment and an ability to keep up with the technology if you want to keep up with the internet.

Exactly. Most ISKCON internet projects Ive seen were of a rajogunic type - initial enthusiasm evaporated after few weeks or months. Most of the long-term (5+ years) successful projects are one-man shows and they are few.

[cite]l like the idea of experts to answer questions and encourage interested people. I have a concern about the quality of the party providing the answers and encouragement. You couldnt just let anyone provide the answers, or perhaps you would need guides who help people move toward the correct conclusions. What does anyone think about that.[/cite]

Right. This site works fine so far. Also many gurus have websites and questions can be directed there.

[cite]A lot of effort has already been wasted in the experiments that have already been tried. Blogging seems to be very popular. Its one thing to post slabs of information but whether people can access and make use of it is another.[/cite]

There are tons of them and its hardly possible to see any structure. But a devotee presence in topically-related and busy blogs would be valuable. Some devotees do it already now.

[cite]In business they call it quality of service. Planning to deliver your service in a shape that best fits the requirement and continuing to monitor it and changing it when it isnt hitting the mark anymore. This is the nature of Internet based services.[/cite]

Yes. Feedback and constant upgrade.

[cite]Thats why the idea of Krishna.com as a hub which allows people to find other related services is interesting. In that way at least you could ensure some standard as well. I think that is a called a portal.[/cite]

Yes

[cite]It would be interesting to hear of anyones actual ideas on possible projects that the teams and resources Veda outlines above would participate in.[/cite]

Definitely

we could add ideas in this thread and then organize them here:
http://wiki.pariprashnena.com/index.php?title=Internet_Preaching_Strategies

centralized place for all audio from Srila Prabhupada... how? dunno

[p][b]very good idea![/b][/p]

[p]to organize internet preaching, and to use a wiki for this purpose. i had the same idea earlier, but didnt reach the right people, or didnt reach them in the right way, whatever. here it seems some enthusiastic devotees came together.[/p]

[p]a lot has been said earlier and im too lazy to fetch each statement and comment to them. here are some thoughts i had reading the earlier posts:[/p]

[p][b]why does it have to be krishna.com hosting templates, etc?[/b][/p]

[p]i have no problem if they do, but i imagine its not a very easy process to get them to agree to the idea, and do it in a way thats as easy and open for others to contribute as this one (wiki.pariprashnena, or other web services that can be hosted here if needed)[/p]

[p]re. the articles at krishna.com you want to link to, about basic philosophy, SP life, etc.: do they already exist? and would krsna.com agree to their articles being used out of context? i dont like the fact that pages at k-com often take a long time to load, and anyway would prefer to present the info. within the layout & formatting of the existing site.[/p]

[p][b]re. open planning and development of web sites[/b]/[/p]

[p]each site that wants to participate could have their own section or category in the wiki, where they write what they are doing or planning to do, and how they want to achieve it. others can read and give their input. people who want to do similar things could do them together and make the result available for others as well.[/p]

Krishna.com as the major site would be the natural choice with many advantages like high traffic. The quality and recency of websites is very varying now and it could be improved when under such an umbrella site. But obviously it cannot be forced, just presented as a better alternative to what exists nowadays. No need for a strictly unified design. Look at sites hosted at iskcon.net (pity it didnt expand more). And aside that main page, they could also have some other pages or blogs if needed. The whole point is not to do something which has been already done elsewhere but link to it.

Yes, Krishna.com has all basic info covered. Esp. now with veda.krishna.com. ;)
Out of which context? One can link to any content in or out of context.
They load slowly due to a slow connection. There could be a mirror in India too. If someone would want to do it I dont see a reason why Manu & Co. would object.
Yes, working wiki space seems ideal. It just needs to be taken advantage of in the spirit of cooperation.

[p]i dont see high traffic as a major advantage: devotees wholl come to this cooperative / organization effort wont come via a google-search, but because they have been approached by someone.[/p]
[p]of course, whatevers already there doesnt have to be done again. im thinking of the present idea of some devotees here to start this cooperation-effort. if he have to wait for the BBT to discuss and agree to the idea, this will take a while. why not start here, right now? we can link to anything on krsna.com, of course.[/p]
[p]i didnt know veda.krishna.com existed. will look at it right now. with "out of context" i mean can i use the information, with or without pictures, and stick it into my own content? in the context of presenting something on namahatta.org i dont always like to send people off on a link; quite likely they wont come back again. (im always stating where i get the information from, though, so they can go there, but they dont have to.) if resources are prepared with that in mind they can be linked to inside your own articles, which doesnt require to send readers to other sites.[/p]
[p]and a slow connection is a disadvantage. why does a high-profile site like krsna.com have to use a slow connection?[/p]

[quote] phani:[p]i dont see high traffic as a major advantage: devotees wholl come to this cooperative / organization effort wont come via a google-search, but because they have been approached by someone.[/p][/quote]

I meant the future visitors, not devotees coming together to work on this.

[quote][p]of course, whatevers already there doesnt have to be done again. im thinking of the present idea of some devotees here to start this cooperation-effort. if he have to wait for the BBT to discuss and agree to the idea, this will take a while. why not start here, right now? we can link to anything on krsna.com, of course.[/p][/quote]

I meant two things (which wasnt so obvious) - both direct hosting at krishna.com and linking to krishna.com content or just linking to it and hosting elsewhere. For the first option you obviously need to have it figured out with krishna.com staff before advertising it to webmasters.

[quote][p]i didnt know veda.krishna.com existed. will look at it right now.[/p][/quote]

Thats just a mirror of Vedic Encyclopedia section.

[quote][p]with "out of context" i mean can i use the information, with or without pictures, and stick it into my own content?[/p][/quote]

Quotes with sources in the fair use mode (not extensive) are ok.

[quote][p]if resources are prepared with that in mind they can be linked to inside your own articles, which doesnt require to send readers to other sites.[/p][/quote]

Thats what we have now - duplication of the same info over and over again.

[quote][p]and a slow connection is a disadvantage. why does a high-profile site like krsna.com have to use a slow connection?[/p][/quote]

I meant your connection, not theirs (which is quite fast but I didnt measure it).

I did organize a little the wiki:

Preaching Strategies (Main Page)

Brainstorm Page, (just pour in ideas)

Resources, Collect here resources

Devotee_List Participants, please enrol

[quote]Thats what we have now - duplication of the same info over and over again.[/quote]
[p]not really, since its the same content, automatically updated when the resource changes. ill only accept the extra trouble to format it into my own pages instead of posting a link.[/p]
[quote]I meant your connection, not theirs (which is quite fast but I didnt measure it).[/quote]
[p]oh, i thought you were talking about their web server. true, i cant really judge these things because my connection is deadly slow - which makes me feel the impact of flash animations and other fancy stuff more than you guys ...[/p]

The general reality is that KC material is scattered all over the net, with poor design, slow connections and lots of split parties all over fighting for supremacy.

Not very attractive for prospects.

So, in some way, centralize (what, did I say that word? he he) resources, work on putting latest tech and the high quality design Krishna conscious philosophy and lifestyle deserves.

The devotees that have energy and desire but poor skills (like me) have to take aid from the expert ones and then all this can come to good end.

san-kirtana all-together, we can do well

it comes to me that devotee wikis can be the digital sankirtana party, collaborative effort to spread the Holy Name.

Mishraji, can you make this thread sticky and rename it as Interested in online preaching coordination? ? This should help to get more devotees involved. Thanks

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Mishraji, can you make this thread sticky and rename it as Interested in online preaching coordination? ? This should help to get more devotees involved. Thanks[/quote]
done.

anybody knows a RSS addon or hack for our wiki ?

Closed thread and subject matter transferred to new category *hidden but open* : "Preaching Strategies"
Just ask here * pariprashnena [at] gmail [dot] com * and we will give access to any interested Prabhu or Mataji:

"Hidden but open" ???

the idea was to make a category that is not in the way of average users... changed now to open and open :)

Wiki is inaccessible already for some time. What happened?

looked like some network prob, seems all right now

Better to use this thread/category if discussion is needed and then add the work/ideas to the wiki.

Wiki is not very practical for conversations isnt?

installed another wiki for Preaching Strategies here:

http://www.pariprashnena.com/pmwiki

Contact me at pariprashnena [at] gmail [dot] com for more info.

not really much written yet,hehe..
I know, I know you have just started it...:)
Was too curious to look at it....:P

Mishraji, why another wiki? It may be confusing to those Ive sent the letter to. Can you put there an announcement of the new one as well?
Also, why are the Resources psw-protected there while still public at the former wiki?

I did not know you already sent the letter. Mediawiki is great software but was a pain when coming to some of the functionalities we expect.
I already deleted the Resources page there and put up a link to the new wiki.
Please tell me about anything that has to be fixed in the midtime.

>I did not know you already sent the letter.

I mentioned it in my comment under it yesterday.

> I already deleted the Resources page there and put up a link to the new wiki.

Thanks

>Please tell me about anything that has to be fixed in the midtime.

Will do. Please send me the psw to my email at VEDA.

"I mentioned it in my comment under it yesterday."
it comes to me that the wiki will not be a good place for "communication" in the sense of messages and discussion, but a place to enter somewhat "predigested" stuff.
For communication we can use this thread. What do you think?

Agreed.

what do you think about creating a separate mailing list instead of using this thread, Prabhus?

Id wait until more devotees show up (if that happens, that is).

Like the idea...
:)

Preaching Strategies. I like that term because it tells us what we need: A Strategy.

I know, I know, why

heres why

because an effective strategy will turn a group of otherwise random attempts into a focussed effort.

to develop a strategy you need to agree to some high level objectives

So already we are working together, thinking on the same things, instead of enacting our efforts as individuals.

This is the first part of our strategy I think: "Teamwork" We need a high level statement about working as a team that we all agree with and that becomes the first part the framework for how we approach things together. what about this

Strategy 1: That we use the available internet services to communicate ideas with each other and that we will make decisions together on which ideas to develop

Agreeing to this together means that we dont rush off and invest in some ideas and expect the team to take it up, but rather that we discuss our ideas together and agree which ones we follow up based on our skills and abilities and resources.

The benefit of this strategy is that it serves to give form to the ways that we use ideas. We understand and agree to what we are trying to achieve even in the early stages of conception of things. This kind of focussed discipline reduces the risk of failure and makes success more likley.

Anyone interested in a few more related strategies for consideration toward an agreed strategy document.

Problem comes when someone wants to encroach the hard earned success of an individual by the strength of the group vote. (And it happens, do not doubt it.)

To talk and to make rules is easier than to put energy to create something worth.

If we centralize, then a person or group will sooner or later tend to take over the collective mission

So, instead of trying to subject the individual to the group, make the group a bunch of individual coordinated efforts, keeping the individuality.

This will keep the egos abreast and will foster the effectiveness.

I am not sure if the idea of centralizing everything in krishna.com or similar strategies will get somewhere for the reasons said.

So, I am happy if the devotee willing to help agrees to the same basic rules this forum has, and then lets work cooperatively but in our own field of activity.

And if someone wants to make a separate page for classes or pics, what is the problem? Will happen anyway. .So, we go and help this devotee to make a professional presentation or integrate it in a greater project if she/he is happy.

This is the motto of IskconTech and I think is the way to go.

At the same time we can create projects with coordinated efforts among ourselves.

I see this cooperation like the process of building a wiki. Someone contributes formatting, someone links, someone contents, references, etc.

The idea isnt to centralize _everything_ on krishna.com but to use all its advantages of a hub as far as possible.

If we want to use a mailing list, why not use the worldsankirtan googlegroup (http://groups.google.com/group/worldsankirtan)? Its already there, and then were not fracturing into yet another mailing list for the same purpose. Phani and I are both administrators of the group, so its "friendly territory", and it already has 50 or so devotees on it.

Tell me about the motto of Iskcon Tech please Mishra

from this site press release:

> Pariprashnena.com has been developed by ISKCON Tech, ( www.iskcontech.com )
> a worldwide devotee group of programmers, designers and web developers whose
> aim is to modernize Iskcon sites and use the latest technology in Krishnas
> service. Pariprashnena.com is the first of a series of websites that are now
> in the works. Stay tuned!

btw, will be very nice if devotees from worldsankirtan help promote this site sending emails to webs and bloggers they know.

Hey thats not a motto : )

This is a motto:

Viribus Unitus

It means something like - we achieve success though unity

What would that be in Sanskrit

that would be a good motto

Dear Phani

In the Wiki you ask if there is a better resource for the story of Srila Prabhupada, there is the book Your Ever Well Wisher. I think it is Lilamrta condensed into one book. It covers all the highlights. It is probably in Vedabase.

I cover pariprashnena on my blog at atmayogi.com. I use the promote code. Its still kind of broken though, because it has these hard carriage returns in it that I have to take out manually.

Its on Planet ISKCON (www.planetiskcon.com) as well.

what about this kind of preaching?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gaurangapada/1034034175/

I ventured in secondlife for a while, did not convince me as a regular preaching activity, but we do have to have a presence there, like a virtual temple

I checked out secondlife for about a day. It reminded me too much of a video game. I like the wiki idea and this forum much better.

how about changing "Resources" heading in the wiki for "Preaching Venues" I see that is what we are posting there. It can be divided in "forums" "IMs" etc

>how about changing "Resources" heading in the wiki for "Preaching Venues" I see that is what we are posting there.

I vote for "Preaching Venues and Resources" or "Resources" as another separate page.

>It can be divided in "forums" "IMs" etc

Ok with me.

From a recent exchange with Tamra P., Krishna.com manager:

"We a preparing to re-launch Krishna.com in Drupal. If you check Krishna.com you will see the announcement. Would love to get your feedback."

(I already answered, suggesting some changes and pointing out some defunct links.)

Regarding our online preaching wiki:
"We are trying to do a similar thing with our connect section in the new Krishna.com, I wonder if we can find more ways to work together."

What do you think about that?

Heres the Connect forums at the new Krishna.com

http://connect.krishna.com/forum

this link takes you to a page that tells you last month Krishna.com drew 77,000 hits

http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://www.krishna.com

This site will draw a large crowd.

I want to help

Imho, our wiki could be featured there as a sticky link or something.

I have time to get into some sort of coordinated preaching online if anyone comes up with something.

adikavi: ask admin for password through email.
link for this page of the thread, just in case:
www.pariprashnena.com/pmwiki

I think...

that it would be good to move exchanges such as these out of information silos and into an open mailing list, like http://groups.google.com/group/worldsankirtan.

It already has 60 members, so we should leverage it and continue to build shared momentum.

VEDA, we can make you an admin of the list, along with Phani and myself.

Theres a practical step.

I was referring to this post, in my previous post:

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]From a recent exchange with Tamra P., Krishna.com manager:

"We a preparing to re-launch Krishna.com in Drupal. If you check Krishna.com you will see the announcement. Would love to get your feedback."

(I already answered, suggesting some changes and pointing out some defunct links.)

Regarding our online preaching wiki:
"We are trying to do a similar thing with our connect section in the new Krishna.com, I wonder if we can find more ways to work together."

What do you think about that?[/quote]

so, see if I understand the proposals for Preaching Strategies: wiki at pariprashena and discussion at wordsankirtan google group.

I dont have to be an admin to contribute, right? ;)

If you think the http://groups.google.com/group/worldsankirtan is a better place than krishna.com forum we can discuss there and the specific facts could be gathered in a restricted area of our wiki. Or do you want to do everything in open and provide all our arguments to our opponents to be ready for them?

www.pariprashnena.com/pmwiki I have installed for this specific purpose and nothing else, and as you can see there, the participants can "lock" a desired page very easily, amen of other functions like email notify, etc

I dont understand, what exactly is the coordinated preaching going on? Are there sixty devotees all doing something together at one place? Ive heard that at Krishna.com there are several devotees computers who answer questions during the day here in Alachua.

I just went to Krishna.com and saw what is happening there so dont bother answering me I guess.

Here is some interesting text re posted on Vaisnava Blog Feeds

http://www.prabhupada.org/rama/?p=4078

What could we do - and what could we do together - that would attract more souls to take up chanting the Maha-Mantra, the study of Bhagavad-gita, and the principles of spiritual life?

regarding the wiki page:
http://wiki.pariprashnena.com/index.php?title=Popular_Questions

the idea is to put short effective answers that you could fire in 1 minute or less.

Phani, thanks for the promo article.

Why is this thread no more sticky?

19 days w/o posts, redundant as sticky. Note that this is not an announcement or recruiting site.
For that go to:
http://www.nectarshare.com
or to find and work with IT devotee preachers:
http://groups.google.com/group/worldsankirtan

Apologetics - FAQ updated with a reply to a super-missionary Mr. Ravi.