Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

If you feel like that write to the current GBC chair: Bhanu.Swami (at) pamho.net

...how do you feel,what is your opinion ? why refer me to Banu Swami ? what do you mean by " if you feel like that " ? am I being offensive ?

I referred you to him since hes the person to get feedback about GBC members. This forum is not exactly about GBC in/efficiency and stuff. I wouldnt say you are offensive in the sastric sense, just allowing yourself to become frustrated and spreading this to others regardless if they want to listen to it or not. Since you got hardly any response so far, it seems devotees are not very happy about it but they are politely tolerating it.

How I feel wont change anything. Hes promoting his health business. Most devotees have some businesses to support themselves and I dont know if there is any related ban for GBCs. Ive never met him and dont know his asram - is he a grihastha or a vanaprastha? Vanaprastha should run no business anymore.

Im more interested to know what Tulsiananda das does - where is his website? :-)

[quote][cite] sitapati:[/cite]Im more interested to know what Tulsiananda das does - where is his website? :-)[/quote]
???

I clicked through the link and had a look at Harivilasas website, but I wasnt very interested. I dont know Harivilasa and have had no contact with him. Then I thought, I would be more interested to know more about Tulasiananda das and see his website if he has one.

Tulsiananda prabhu, its rude of me to talk as if you werent here. I apologise. Do you have a website?

...sorry to get back to you so late,I posted my question,then went to work,I am presently back home for lunch.I work as a customer care associate for AT&T Wireless for the past 5 years,paying my taxes etc.No I do not have a web-site. " This forum is not exactly about GBC in/efficiency and stuff." I belive the "social " categorie does allow for such questions about Iskcon and its managers.I havent recived any feedback from our site administrators,so I guess my questions are ok.Will be back on line 6 pm est...see you then !

I dont think there is anything wrong with such a site. He may be a GBC member but I guess he has some other existence. He is public about it. If there were more qualified people maybe they could take over his responsibilities. As long as such activities are public it is good. Devotees in ISKCON know what the GBC are doing and if there are more qualified people they can take over. I think it is better than deifying the gbc.

i think putting this web site together took him all of 3 or 4 hours; the silly stories arent formatted, just copied / pasted from some story book. if hes able to make some money with the herbal body-care products he sells via this site, whats wrong with that?

theres nothing offensive or contradictory to our philosophy. far as i know harivilas pr. is a grhastha, entitled and supposed to maintain himself with honest work. i dont see how this is dishonest, and it leaves him more time for KC than working 9/5 in some office or regular job.

..its nice to see so many sincere replies to my question.

The purpose of the site His is contained in the opening paragraph: " What has prompted me to publish this collection of Armenian proverbs is to create a web gathering of Armenians and other interested persons. As the Armenians are spread all over the world, there is a need to gather in a forum to live, share, and evolve our culture "

Would Prabhupada approve of one of His GBC men promoting maya on the www ? Harivilasa as spent hundreds of hours over the past 2 years writing his purports
for over 300 armenian proverbs.this isnt a cut and paste affair.Harivilas should choose bettween spreading Krishna Consciouness and Armenian Consciouness.

Alamaragura says " Devotees in ISKCON know what the GBC are doing " , not so my freind,several recent NA GBC meetings minutes are being kept secret
by the NA GBC,so what is it that they are hiding from the rest of the devotees?

There is a link to His business on the side-bar,but the purpose is to enlighten the public with Armenian proverbs,is that what the world is lacking today,Armenian proverbs?

Veda Prabhu has said : " I referred you to him ( Bhanu Swami ) since hes the person to get feedback about GBC members " where does it say that ? My SP Gopal Krishna Maharaja and Praghosa dasa ( Dandavats ) suggest I take any complaints to " NA Leadership " so I posted my request to find out whom they might be on
PAMHO.NET, their adminstrators removed my simple request from the site 2 hours later.

Harivilas has recently banned the Iskcon Vancouver temple, New Gokula, from having a temple board,the temple has not had a Temple President for almost 6 years,He also had the devotees there sign a mysterious transfer of powers document,Prabhupada would never allow such nonsense.How can a temple function or attain its maximum potential without a Board or Temple President,answer me that one ?

so if this was about something more than just the website thing just could have said it from the very beginning.

..one question at a time prabhu, one question at a time .

hehe. ok

Who cares about Armenian culture then? What is this world coming to?

[quote][cite] Tulsiananda das:[/cite]..one question at a time prabhu, one question at a time .[/quote]

I am sorry about being so straightforward, but it sounds more like there is some personal grudge behind your expressed concern for Srila Prabhupadas wishes and benefits of his society. Of course, I do not know the details, but the mentality "he did something to me, and I am going to tell the rest of the world how bad he is" is all too familiar... I think what Veda suggested about contacting Bhanu Swami is a very sensible thing to do if you are really disturbed with the website contents and the happenings in ISKCON Vancouver temple.

we generally shouldnt mix facts with sentiments but shouldnt dismiss facts on the grounds of being tinged with sentiments either.

ive written to the contact-address of that web site, asking if this is in fact harivilas prabhus site, and if he would like to comment on its purpose. lets see ...

regarding that vancouver-temple issue (which would have to be a different question, of course): does anybody here have direct experience or friends involved in the vancouver temple? before even thinking about this id like to see others opinions ...

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]we generally shouldnt mix facts with sentiments but shouldnt dismiss facts on the grounds of being tinged with sentiments either.[/quote]

Yes, that is very true. That is why it would be a good idea to contact a GBC member, who will look into it and is empowered to do something about it if there is a problem. Surely, more helpful than trying to seek justice in this forum, in my humble opinion.

And yes, I still have trust in GBC. :P

phani:
good that you contacted him. tell him about this thread so that he can defend himself then.

>Veda Prabhu has said : " I referred you to him ( Bhanu Swami ) since hes the person to get feedback about GBC members " where does it say that ? My SP Gopal Krishna Maharaja and Praghosa dasa ( Dandavats ) suggest I take any complaints to " NA Leadership " so I posted my request to find out whom they might be on
PAMHO.NET, their adminstrators removed my simple request from the site 2 hours later.

Its a common sense to approach a boss (here GBC chair) in case of an employee (GBC member).
On pamho there is a conf. called NAGBC (North American GBC). Organizer (email): Bir.Krishna.das.Goswami at pamho.net

Sorry Prabhu,this is your speculation only.

I had contacted Bir Krishna two years ago,He suggested I contact Iskcon Reslove,I explained to Him I had already spent 10 months going back and forth with Braja Bihari and got no where,rather than contacting Harivilasa immediately to " mediate ",He was talking about my issue with the local crack-pot,but didnt bother telling me.

Braja Bihari told me He would present my case a the next GBC meeting,He lied to me.

I was then harassed by Iskcon Torontos lawyer via email, I was unable to open the email,perhaps because I was using a public computer,so I do not know what nonsense was contained in the email.

Jai Nitai das,Iskcon Ombudsmen,then took over my " case ",I had Him contact co-gbc Bhaktimaraga Swami,the question put forth to Maharaj was " How much was Mr. Sheckter ( the lawyer ) paid and from what souce did the funds come from ? " Bhakrimarga Swami refused to answer Iskcon Ombudsman Jai Nitai,
what do you suppose Maharaja is hiding ?

I had contacted Iskcon Justice Minister Sesa das,with much teeth pulling we slowly started to get somewhere,so I thought,He gave me 5 questions to answer,I answerd the questions perfectly stateing my case,so perfect in fact He didnt bother to get back to me.

Once more I had contacted Sesa das Iskcon Justice Minister and asked the question " is it legitimate for Harivilas not to make any effort year after to year to see that Iskcon Vancouver has a Temple President ? Is it legitimate for Him to ban the Temple Board and have them sign some wacky " transfer of powers " document,something being kept secret ? "

He then refferd me back to that silly Iskcon Resolve guy Braja Bihari,He wouldnt answer my email this time,its all bull-crap.

I have also contacted my SM, Gopal Krishna Maharaja,also co-gbc for Vancouver,as usually He wont get involved or answer my email,He never does.

So you see Veda Prabhu,you are living in an imaginary Iskcon that simply does not exist.Harivilas has money and that is all that matters in todays Iskcon,money.

Any suggestions ?

I think that regardless of the "passion" showed in the message, the Prabhu needs and deserves some explanation and real resolve. Be it even "that is not your business" or "there is no proof of your statements" or something. Administrative silence "merry go round" is never good and never works at least for the thoughtful devotees. Then we wonder why nice devotees leave us.

hmm, some ugly story tulsiananda.

but try to state your arguments with less passion otherwise they wont take you seriously and think that you are just one more critic/ritvik...you know.

Suggestion: Tell all this directly to Bhanu S. and as many GBCs as possible.

[p]here is harivilas prabhus reply to my inquiry via the web sites contact email:[/p]
[quote][p]Uncle Harrys Natural Products or uncleharrys.com is the webpage of my
business. It is self explanatory.[/p]

[p]Harryterhanian.com is a webpage that presents traditional Armenian proverbs, stories, and philosophy, history, spirituality, etc. Everyone is welcome to read it. It is an attempt to establish a voice or platform for presenting traditional wisdom through proverbs and also the authentic Vedic philosophy as I have learned it from Srila Prabhupada. [/p]

[p]When I was initiated in 1971, Srila Prabhupada wrote in my initiation acceptance letter that I should preach in the Middle East and especially Armenia. This webpage is an attempt to present myself to the greater public and especially the Armenian public as a voice of culture and philosophy. I am beginning to get very positive feed back that will enable me to communicate on a cultural and philosophical platform with these people. [/p]

[p]In the past I translated and printed Srila Prabhupadas books into the Armenian language as well as some of His Divine Graces books into Turkish and Arabic. I am attempting now to connect with these people in cultural ways. Not everyone understands this attempt. It is unfortunate. I am also working on a book of proverbs and teaching stories used by Srila Prabhupada. [/p]

[p]If you need more information, please contact me.[/p][/quote]
[p]i dont see anything offensive, alarming, or in any way contradictory to his being a GBC for ISKCON in any of these web sites or his reply. i must admit that i didnt read many of the [i]traditional stories[/i] and dont want to try to judge how effective this approach of preaching to the armenian community is. since harivilas prabhu seems to be a member of this community, i assume that he knows how to approach them.[/p]
[p]tulsiananda prabhu, i think that your impression that publishing these web sites constitutes some major offense or grave error on harivilas prabhus part, is wrong.[/p]

[quote]Who cares about Armenian culture then?[/quote]
[p] ... i guess many armenians do ... [/p]

Kudos to Phani Prabhu on His excellent investigative reporting.

I just finnished scrolling throught all 31 pages of " harryterhanian.com " with its 460 Armenian proverbs with Harivilass commentary.Give me a break man.
This site is 99.9 % material world content,I dont think I seen any mention of Krishna or Prabhupada more than a half dozen times.

This has to be the most peculiar way to present authentic Vedic philosophy ever, or is it meant to drum up overseas business for Harivilas?

Harivilas says in His sites introduction: " I hope to have a section of Armenian folk music, cooking, health, spirituality, marriage advice, and literary comment. Imagine learning culture by proverbs, stories, cooking lessons, music, poetry, discussion, and downright good old time one on one exchanges. Please join in the fun, open your heart and mind to share and embrace this wonderful culture." Enbrace this wonderfull culture ?

Is this how Srila Prabhupada would expect one of His GBC men to spend their time ? You people cant be serious.

Since Phani Prabhu has struck up a nice relationship with Harivilas Prabhu,perhaps He can ask Harivilasa what He has been doing to find Iskcon Vancouver a Temple President,and what about dismatleing the Temple Board,Jai Govinda das confirms there is no Board,and what is this rumour about members having to sign this
mysterious " transfer of powers " document.

deal or no deal ?

[quote]Since Phani Prabhu has struck up a nice relationship with Harivilas Prabhu,perhaps He can ask Harivilasa what He has been doing to find Iskcon Vancouver a Temple President,and what about dismatleing the Temple Board,[/quote]
[p]ill do no such thing just because you say so. until i hear some people i consider trustworthy and cool-headed tell me theres something wrong in vancouver, ill not even think about this issue.[/p]
[p]and since youre so eager to show that harivilas prabhus preaching efforts are useless, id like to hear something about your own efforts and successes in this regard. if, as i suspect, all you do is criticize others, im not surprised that none of the GBCs and other ISKCON officers wants to listen to you. and, frankly, im getting tired of listening to you, too.[/p]

Tulsiananda Prabhu - I think youre giving criticism a bad name here. If youre going to do it you need to do it right - state the facts as clearly separate from your allegations, assumptions or suspicions.

Im not surprised that nobody has taken your complaints seriously. It comes across as a personal grudge. Even if you have a case you are making yourself ineffective by your methods.

.... maybe i should do an online e-course on how to criticize properly ? ....

I would to thank all the members of Pariprasnena for contributing to my question : " Is it ok for Iskcon GBC members to promote material culture ? "

I would have been nice if there where more thoughtfull and insightfull comments on the actual question it self,rather than "why is He asking this question? ".

If anyone has any ideas on how to rectify the tragedy that is unfolding at Iskcon Vancouver, please use my email.

I now humble request our administrators to close this question.

[quote][cite] ekendra:[/cite].... maybe i should do an online e-course on how to criticize properly ? ....[/quote]
[p]im not sure if you are serious; but if you are, ill sign up for the course.[/p]

Yeah me too, I think there is a need for it

especially an e need

it is easy to fall into the communication traps that internet presents.

an : ) although a bit silly can go a long way with someone who has a bad time and reads the wrong thing into a post

how to criticize without offense. It takes two, as they say but there must be some principles.

...and now a word from Srila Prabhupada :

uc0u346 ru299 mad Bhu257 gavatam 1.5.10

na yad vacau347 citra-padau109 u769 harer yau347 o
jagat-pavitrau109 u769 pragru803 nu803 u299 ta karhicit
tad vu257 yasau109 u769 tu299 rtham uu347 anti mu257 nasu257
na yatra hau109 u769 su257 niramanty uu347 ik-ksu803 ayu257 hu803

TRANSLATION

Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows. Since the all-perfect persons are inhabitants of the transcendental abode, they do not derive any pleasure there.

PURPORT

Similarly, there are different kinds of literature for different types of men of different mentality. Mostly the market literatures which attract men of the crows categories are literatures containing refused remnants of sensuous topics. They are generally known as mundane talks in relation with the gross body and subtle mind. They are full of subject matter described in decorative language full of mundane similes and metaphorical arrangements. Yet with all that, they do not glorify the Lord. Such poetry and prose, on any subject matter, is considered decoration of a dead body. Spiritually advanced men who are compared to the swans do not take pleasure in such dead literatures, which are sources of pleasure for men who are spiritually dead. These literatures in the modes of passion and ignorance are distributed under different labels, but they can hardly help the spiritual urge of the human being, and thus the swanlike spiritually advanced men have nothing to do with them. Such spiritually advanced men are called also mu257 nasa because they always keep up the standard of transcendental voluntary service to the Lord on the spiritual plane. This completely forbids fruitive activities for gross bodily sense satisfaction or subtle speculation of the material egoistic mind.

I rest my case.