Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

The power of the Material Energy - Maya

...of course we never really reffer to Maya as a " sinsister movement ".Maya always works in the service of Krishna only.

The GBC has caused the degregation of Iskcon by accepting the association of Maya.

Srila Prabhupada said This Movement, Lord Caitanyas Movement cannot be
defeated from outside but only from within.

I like this page, I like to read the devotees interesting opinions, but what I really dont like to read, when some type of devotees are coming and criticizing even the devotees in the function of GBC... It is very easy!

I absolutely agree with lalitagopi. Instead of criticizing we should simply "be the change we want to see".. I can never have enough information to rightly judge someone others behaviour. Therefore I would rather let it on Yamaraj and other competent persons ;-)

...its good to expose devotees who have exploited Prabhupadas movement for personal gain,thus degrading the reputation of Iskcon.

Several years ago in Canada a Temple President was thwarted in his attempt to defraud the government of money.now this devotee is a guru.

I think the main thing to do is to be the change you want to see.

But then you can also speak to help others see too. This can also be an act of love and care.

Does a parent avoid telling their children to avoid a particular person whos association could be damaging for fear of being accused of fault finding?

I dont see the problem with identifying bad examples of behavior and pointing them out in an educational way to others. Of course this would have to be done with discretion, maturity and humility and if ones own example is not much better then they should make that clear as well.

It is well known that the CIA or KGB and secret cults infiltrate every powerful organization,in order to destroy them and steal their wealth and reputation,while spying on its members,knowing all their characters and faults of the past,in order to enslave them into submission. As Iskcon is a threat to consumerism[self-sufficiency/bullock carts!],spreading such philosophy means the end of Walmarts/McDonalds etc...The assets of Iskcon as well as the BBT and work power at the time were quite significant[$60,000/day for book sales only],and must have been regarded as easy prey by skillful predators,who also had control of gurukuls with tempting and vulnerable kids!
The New Vrndaban history confirms this!

is govindas108 suggesting that new vrndabans gurukula was controlled by the CIA ???

I agree with Ekendra prabhus opinion, to point things out when required is educational and responsible. Otherwise you are implicated in propogating an untruth or at least a half truth about someones spiritual status.

Conspiracy is not usually intentional. Usually its unintentional and unconscious and is facilitated/aided by neglect, miserly weakness of heart, by not standing up at the right time, by being silently compliant. Unfortunately, many devotees take these things as signs of humility, just like Arjuna. Krishna called him a fool and then proceeded to persuade Arjuna that because his superiors had compromised their position, they were fit to be killed. This is the heavy reality of Bhagavad-gita.

[quote][cite] janmastami das:[/cite]is govindas108 suggesting that new vrndabans gurukula was controlled by the CIA ???[/quote]

The CIA is only a part of powerful secret societies,who are controlling the world or trying to control it,as eventually Sri Krsna is the ultmate controller.As I said,vaisnavism is a kind of communism,that can destroy the materialistic establishment,based on maximum profit,no matter how dangerous/ungodly the means are.Its difficult to know exactly who were in these secret societies,but by the way one behaves,we can distinguish who is asura,and who is divine...Either one serve Krishna or maya!

it is been more than 30 years we are not so influential and important, CIA has worthwhile targets to tend to.

Why would someone say ISKCON is degrading? I think for a very young movement ISKCON is doing extremely well. Of course many mistakes have been made and are to be made, and many improvements are needed in different fields, but the importance of this movement in spreading Krishna Consciousness cannot be underestimated. So many wonderful preaching programmes are organized by ISKCON devotees each year and bring so many people to Srila Prabhupadas and Lord Chaitanyas lotus feet. Yes, the mistakes made are worth being discussed in CONSTRUCTIVE manner, so we can avoid them in future. But intense meditation on the shortcomings of a person (or a society), instead of meditation on the Lords lotus feet, doesnt help improve anything.

Dialog and different views of devotees should be discussed even if painful.
Balance should be attained for the benefit of our movement: not mindless yesmen nor enraged destroyer vandals.

...sorry Mishra Prabhu, I am afraid free thinkers are in a minority when I comes to discussing Iskcon affairs.

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]Dialog and different views of devotees should be discussed even if painful.
Balance should be attained for the benefit of our movement: not mindless yesmen nor enraged destroyer vandals.[/quote]

Yes, youre surely right. I was thinking more of the optimistic vs pessimistic view of the ISKCON society and related events.

The question is silent about the source and the questioner.The question is irrelevant. Does it need any answer?

[quote][cite] Neelima Ghosh:[/cite]The question is silent about the source and the questioner.The question is irrelevant. Does it need any answer?[/quote]
there is a sector of devotees that firmly believe in a conspiracy theory on ISKCON so imho it is worth to discuss and try to clarify

My husband had a soubhagya to meet Sreela Prabhupad personally at Raman Reti and Damodar Mandir at Brindaban sometime during 1972/73. Sreela Pabhupad had a great vision of bringing all the Vaishnavites and like minded people of the Globe on one platform and he succeeded in doing so. Not only this, He succeeded in pervading the Krishna cult and the importance of Geeta among the people all over the world which no other organization has been able to do it so far. Today all the bhaktas are only following his footsteps and the objectives of The Great Visionary are being emplanned to succeed. The objectives have even been improved by way of Food for Life and Akshay Patra.
It is also true that the success of an organization partly depends on its critics also. The growth of the ISKCON is so huge which invite critics to peep deeper into it and for that we have to set our home right. This is in fact the pious duty of all we bhaktas.
Now let the above answer maniac bhaktas tell me whether the question was relevant? Why have we been breaking our heads so far?
Neelima Ghosh

...I was also suprised by the question suggesting there is "sinister movement" creating internal disturbance within Iskcon, I feel the idea is somewhat far-fetched,
but on the other hand I dont know everything so I gave it some credance.I can say that in the early 80s there was a rumour that a bhakta ( a man in his mid 30s)
was actually a member of Canadas federal police,back then the stories of criminal activity ( New Vrindavan ) was just begining to surface,Iskcon Vancouvers
Sankirtan Team was collecting about $ 50,000 weekly,mostly in cash,so it would not be unusual for the government to plant an informant within the community to see what was going on.Several years later there was an American devotee living in one of the temples many little rooms that were created by partioning off several car-ports,it was rumoured that he was a member of an American law enforcement agency,he had a map of north-america on the wall in his room with many push-pins in it and was over heard using a ham-radio carrying on strange converations.

There is also the story that during the persecution of the devotees in the former USSR by the KGB that one of their investgators had been chanting Hare Krishna as an experiment,it was reported that He had actually experienced trancendental bliss.Many organizations have been interested in Krishna Consciouness over the years,and for all the wrong reasons.

Perhaps Govinda 108 could have worded His question differently,but after all...its only a question.

Informants (easy to discover by prasna, etc.) and an alleged sinister influence are very different things.

...not so, any " sinister influence " would likely use informants,agents,or call them what you like, to infiltrate an organization to gain access to information etc.,after all ,the GBC is very secretive with their meetings etc.,so its no wonder govinda108 would ask the question that was asked.

I meant state informants. A state doesnt have an interest to take over and control a spiritual organization, but to monitor it for possible criminal activities.

The most dominant faith in the world,at present, is the Catholic faith,that grew super powerful during history,by means of forced conversions,invasions of nearly all countries of the world,helped by the official military powers of Europe.Such power doesnt like any opposition,though they may concede some tolerance,in the name of democracy.In USSR, communism succeeded to erase such immense power,during its reign,but as soon as this regime stopped,the church showed its ugly head again,and the Head of the Orthodox church,recently blasphemed Lord Krsna,saying He is a Demon! It is known that President Bush is under the influence of evangelical missions...and all these people dont like the rise of a faith,that is opposite to theirs: in the name of freedom,they preach meat -eating,intoxication,free sex and free gambling,whereas the vaisnavas preach the contrary!Idol worship is also an abominble thing to them!
They actually use the holy Name of Jesus,to push their satanic agenda,that is turning some into super rich people,with loose morality.
Just as they treated communism as a big threat,it is not unwise to suspect that they see the vaisnava philosophy as a similar threat also,and in order to destroy it,they just infiltrate the Society,disguised as devotees,while leading secretly,and ordinary life,which,after some time,was exposed. As the Society was quite wealthy,with a number of sentimental hippy type devotees at the feet of His Divine Grace,it was not difficult to get rid of most of these sincere ones,and control the whole Society,as a big business,as any organized cult or religion generates a huge amount of money,mainly when the Founder created the necessary goodwill when alive.
The main directions of the Founder,named the Directions of Management or DOM was just recently revealed,and the actual authority of the established leaders are being challenged by a new lawsuit from Long Island devotees,accused of ritvikism,and harassed since a long time.
Just imagine a world full of devotees, needing no more cars or McDonalds,Coca-cola,items from China,no drugs business,no casinos etc...and living peacefully among nations!
What will happen to the weapons industry as well as all other industries mentionned?
So,thats why I think the ones in power have all interest to destabilize any society that preaches as we do,and will do anything to stop further progress:just see how difficult it is to build a temple in Moscow,[or Kazahkstan] and to keep even some cows as religious pets[USA.-Angelica]
So, I thinks the sincere devotees should gather together and try to implement the orders of the Spiritual Master,in an organized way,and even become politicians and big businessmen,so as to counteract the agents of Maya.they should be able to uproot any evil that has infiltrated in the Movement,so as to reinforce it spiritually.
Some devotees on this forum,probably newcomers,have not experienced the period when it was inimaginable to hire pujaris or cooks from abroad,so as to keep the temple going,just as they cant imagine how temples were like beehives full of enthusiastic devotees,not empty and dull,except for some sunday feasts or festivals!
Not an easy job!

..i agree,it would be nice if govindas 108 could tell us why he posted his question,does it have something to do with the poison theorists? does he or anyone else believe Illuminatians are among the ranks of the GBC ?

note: i did not get to read the above response by govindas108 before my last comment.

[quote][cite] Tulsiananda das:[/cite]..i agree,it would be nice if govindas 108 could tell us why he posted his question,does it have something to do with the poison theorists? does he or anyone else believe Illuminatians are among the ranks of the GBC ?[/quote]

Its the story of the dog,that accidentally turned blue by drpping in a bucket of blue paint:everyone thought it was krsna..and started to worship it..till a she -dog passed by! The blue dog immediately showed its true nature!
The recent exposition of yet another leader devotee-on Dandavats,following the other ones in the past,is a sign of great deviation,that is plaguing the Society,and there are many other cases like this all over the world,not yet revealed:I recently read about he case of the devotees of Costa-Rica,who also are qui furious about the project of selling their farm,that could be turned into a self-sufficient community:the responsble person for this is also a strange character,unwelcome by the local devotees.
Srila Prabhupada was never satisfied when a project is terminated!
It is difficult to know what secret society has infiltrated Iskcon...or whether Prabhupada was poisoned!What is sure is that power is intoxicating!

TIME OUT !!!
exceptions with a few things that have been posted here:

VEDA states:

Informants (easy to discover by prasna, etc.) and an alleged sinister influence are very different things.

RESPONSE: the devious nature of a spy, acceptable for killing even under the geneva convention, is EXACTLY the same thing as "an alleged sinister influence".
many of those of us affiliated with ISKCON for three or four decades now are very saddened to see the cooptation of the radical revolutionary standard of Lord Caitanyas, Srila Prabhupadas, Movement to and by the U$A government and her minions. and this:

" I meant state informants. A state doesnt have an interest to take over and control a spiritual organization, but to monitor it for possible criminal activities."

response: what "state" are we talking about here? would that be kazakstan with no interest? the australian police are no longer "checking"? indian charitable trusts act are not enforceable on ISKCON? U$&A still has its informants in the KRSNA
consciousness movement and are looking for more.

To Janmastami dasa:

I suppose you are the devotee involved in the murders of New Vrndaban?
Not all,on this forum,are aware of such distant events-though still with unresolved mysteries] and disturbing visits of present swamis to the murderer in jail:police dogs sniffed concealed drugs on them!
The murderer is in for life,was awarded sannyasa while in jail,and is now head of Iskcon Prison ministry,with own website!
The head of the cult-like ashram,Keith Ham,got away with 7 yrs,and is now free:many other murders remain unresolved,notably the sons of Sulocan and another devotee,found in a refrigirator.
Secret societies nowadays are not limited by states or nations:they have international members all over the world,and if you read the links I gave in the beginning,youll see how all fits in!
They are all asuras,greedy for money at all costs,and loving all sorts of sexual activities:they will never respect any servant of Krsna,as He has opposite plans for the world!
The pure devotees have nothing to fear from them,just like Pralad Mahraja,who was always protected from his powerful asura father!
Paying a million dollars means there has been blackmail,meaning the payer/payers are guilty of something very serious!

From Sampradaya Sun:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-06/editorials1063.htm

Dear Neelima Ghosh:
No mail has been sent to you by this admin up to this date.
Please send copy of that email to us: pariprashnena@gmail.com

Dear Janmastami das:
There are certain character limits for the sake of forum clarity and usability, and if someone wants to post large text we have the attachment facility for that.
If you have a specific problem with a post please tell us. One of your posts in this thread contained specific US police address, phone and email involved in a court case and THAT part was removed for irrelevant and even legally binding.
If you cant understand this simple points and still think that the admins here are biased, etc, then why post here? Certainly know that well apply our non-debatable neutral policy at all times, permitting any question and answer, but we will curb individuals using the forum to advance ANY particular stance, be it anti, pro or whatever denomination.

Hare krishna and Hari Bol
Thanks for the information and making me wiser.
Neelima Ghosh

Hare Krishna and Hari Bol,
Soon after posting my observations on the above refered to question, I received a mail from pariprashnena.com, whose reply was as below. It is really not that that I did not know the various episodes which have been narrated by ten very senior bhaktas through their posted observations on my comments in a very short period of one day
( possibly a record that there had been ten vociferous reactions in just one day and one was even edited) but it must have saddened we bhaktas that we have washed dirty linen in public which possibly could have been avoided and in any case was not warranted. From the various observations posted, I really feel that I had hit the hornets nest.
May I kindly request the admin to close this question and let we all bhaktas work in unision for the upliftment of KRISHNA-CULT WITH THE OBJECTIVES OF ISKCON and pay our obeissance to the Lord and Shrila Prabhupad.
There can not be two opinions that the Lord has to protect His bhakta as he has full faith on Him like Prahlad Maharaj saying that Lord exists every where, was questioned by His demon father Hiranyakashyap that, does His lord exist in the pillar? Prahlad Maharaj had saidyes. His father then hit the pillar with his sword and Lord Narsimhadev appeared. Let us have faith in our Lord who is our saviour.
HARE KRISHNA
Neelima Ghosh

Hare Krishna and Hari Bol
Thank you very much for commenting on my observations. Bhaktas have realized that the question was not framed properly. It was rather a damaging one. I apologise for hitting the hornets nest.
Neelima Ghosh

Your servants at Pariprashnena Support <pariprashnena@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello

the question, as it was framed, contains a number of implied premisses that not everyone is willing to accept. in fact, the vast number of implications is so great that doubtful anyone would agree to all these suppossitions. some of the principle implied conclusions (shades of the logical fallacy of begging the question) included in this question are these:

1. ISKCON has suffered degradation.
2. an outside organization infiltrated ISKCON
3. that outside organization was sinister by nature
4. evil (sinister organization) truimphed over good (ISKCON)

there are many others, but suffice it to say, these alone are enough to rile some hackles. the editing of partial or entire submissions also seriously alters the direction of the thread, at the express desire of the admin and apparently, to the surprise of many readers and posters.

"any questions or comments?", no longer as ubiquitously asked at ISKCON centers as it once was, is now seemingly only offered rhetorically, if it is even asked at all.

character limits on submissions also limits expressive freedoms to quite an extent.

[quote][cite] Saryu:[/cite][quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]Dialog and different views of devotees should be discussed even if painful.
Balance should be attained for the benefit of our movement: not mindless yesmen nor enraged destroyer vandals.[/quote]

Yes, youre surely right. I was thinking more of the optimistic vs pessimistic view of the ISKCON society and related events.[/quote]

optimistic or pessimistic view could easily mean out of touch with reality. I vouch for realistic and always work for better :)

[quote][cite] Tulsiananda das:[/cite]...not so, any " sinister influence " would likely use informants,agents,or call them what you like, to infiltrate an organization to gain access to information etc.,after all ,the GBC is very secretive with their meetings etc.,so its no wonder govinda108 would ask the question that was asked.[/quote]

How the French Yatra was destroyed:-

The Roman Catholics of France,headed by the Pope, are still very powerful in this country,and any other faith is viewed as a cult to be destroyed. The Inquisition is still going on,but while they are not burning heretics,they do not like any genuine faith to grow there.Its no more a question of love of Jesus,but of financial interests and freedom to live in a demoniac fashion:Catholics love meat-eating,wine,champagne,cognac,ciagerettes,casinos,lotteries,night clubs and more and more freer sex!
So,any faith condemning or advising pure living is a threat to these industries mentionned,generating billions of Euros and so,conversion to vaisnavism would be a catastrophe to the trades.
They sure did send informants or even could have joined Iskcon,which was easy to do,so as to have all informations about the Movement:The Emperor guru,who was there,did the fatal mistake of violating Frances internal revenue laws,by selling rugs,paintings,records so as to buy Ermenonville castle,near Paris.His silver coated vyasasana was just a little smaller than Prabhupadas! After the inauguration of this temple,where they destroyed the interior walls of the main hall-illegal!- the army,simultanously invaded all of Frances Iskcon centres at 10 am,with guns pointed at the devotees:all documents were seized,thus revealing that Iskcon was being run like a money making cult,and not a religious organisation.
The GBC,at that time,knew everything that was going on in France,as they were doing just the same in other parts of the world:Gods representative was revered just like Krishna...so it was normal to give him the best of cashmere sweaters,pure silk dhotis,cutlery in gold etc...but all this was detrimental to Prabhupadas image as journalists just reported the Movement as any other successful cult,based on money making and adoration of guru.

We can imagine how the Movement would have evolved if the gurus lived a simple life,with only book distribution/donations as revenues,training people into vaisnavism,promoting cow protection and self sufficient farms,thus attracting the sincere seekers of Truth.They would have gained more and more good reputation,people would have surrendered even all their wealth,bodies,mind and souls,and we could have bought several catholic churches,now abandoned by the congregation,due to pedophile priests and more awareness of people.

The sad truth is that France now has about 20 devotees[Im not sure] living in the temple,while most others went to the Gaudiya Matha.The remaining castle is now sheltering pigeons[reincarnated "devotees?] in some of its upper rooms,while the 100 hectare property,which could have been home to all devotees,is nearly desert.It was before a 500 devotee community,with about 300 cows and organic agriculture.

There were,in those days,many Prabhupadas disciples,who didnt like the Emperors way of mananging,but they were considered nearly as demons,creating obstacles to the adored guru!With the present wrecked yatra,we should learn through history how not to repeat mistakes again,and the young recruits should also learn through these mistakes,if we wish to please Srila Prabhupada.

France yatra is one story among many similar ones around the world.