Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

...of the 323 questions posted so far,very few concern critizing the GBC,theres nothing wrong with an open forum to discuss Iskcons GBC,the good and the bad.

Often it is the strict ISKCON devotees that are the ones on the fringe of reality.

There is a little too much focus on "institutional issues" here for my liking. If you have a problem with it, go do something about it and get back to us with a report on what you did. Thats Prabhupadas personal example. I dont read books of him continually harping on about problems in the Math. :-)

The other day someone sent me a link to an interesting article. Dont visit this site if youre a brahmacari:

http://www.cracked.com/index.php?name=News&sid=2417

It takes the guy a little while to get to his point, but its a good one. A lot of the talk that people call "criticism" is to me the sound of disempowered people complaining about their inability to change things to conform to the way they want them to be. If we just made a slight adjustment to the way we see the world our wheels stop spinning in the mud, and we can start moving forward, and feeling happy.

If you want to see a change, then be the change, and help others to do so. Too much focusing on "the problems" and blaming "the man" and "the system" is really unproductive.

I think there are different types of devotees with different approach. There is the type, they think anything said except for Hare Krishna, Haribol is maya, what to speak of analyzing or scrutinizing our movement. The ones that say "you are like the flies, etc"
Others that they might have some grudges and actually like to throw stones to help our movement somehow collapse, many times heavily pointing out the (many) irregularities for the sake of it, and a third that is moderately critic to gain insight how to help improve (not possible otherwise) personally and thereby globally.
Imho pariprashnena gives a chance to all of them to express themselves although those who actually benefit from it are the moderate open minded that have no fear to know and use that for the advancement.

if it is true that no censorship is done here, then the denomination of the site will be made out of the posts, not the personal opinion or likings of the owners.
More critics post that will make this site a critic one, more nice informative devotional posts, likewise etc.
Am I wrong?

please Bhakta Corey take me off your list of "strict ISKCON devotees who want to avoid becoming contaminated".
I am not a born again Krishnian, thank you.

Internet can be utilized to uproot evil individuals who are plaguing this Movement!
As new bhaktas do not know all the history of Iskcon,they tend to see the rosy picture of the Movement,and do not wish to look in the cupboard for any skeletons.There have been betrayal in the past to the Founder Acarya,who gave all his love to the devotees,and with time such people have already paid for their crimes.But there are still materialistic devotees in this Movement,not really interested in the spiritual side,but can easily pretend,as they are surrounded by new disciples,and yes men.If only Pariprashnena could be used for such uprooting,then it is doing a good job.....
Now ,for constructive part,it can also be a brainstorming site to promote Srila Prabhupadas dream!

the attack dogs of dogmatic theocracy, posting such begged questions as "is this a ritvik website?", "is this a fringee website?", and other such inquiries, seem to be nothing more than a thinnly veiled pejorative but pathetic search for internet allies, with scant respect for the sadhus need to speak the Truth, even if It be unpalatable for some. sad!!!

The only way to defeat evil is to advance in good. So lets hear about what you are actually doing. Its not following Srila Prabhupada, the Acarya, to spend time meditating on the faults. He didnt do that - he got out there and did something. If you want to follow him, and join the real essential ISKCON, then get on with fufilling the seven purposes, and inspire the rest of us with your reports of progress.

yo check it:

http://www.sankirtandiary.com/2007/10/warning-about-pariprashnena-website.html

ROFL!

:)

On a slightly different note - the conception of "fringie" belongs to a rapidly outmoding conceptual model of ISKCONs constitution.

It used to be a valid sankhya back in the day, but its less useful today as we transition from cult to real community, with all the diversity and breadth that this implies.

Things are more complex and multi-dimensional now, and dont reduce down into the same neat categories that accurately described our demographics at an earlier stage of evolution of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

btw: "attack dogs of dogmatic theocracy" - r0cks! Put a phat beat behind that and do it spoken word style.

[quote][cite] ekendra:[/cite]yo check it:

http://www.sankirtandiary.com/2007/10/warning-about-pariprashnena-website.html

ROFL!

:)[/quote]

This will bring in more visitors and probably more members! :)

There are so many forums out there that are either far left or far right. It is nice to have a forum where people can express themselves with censoring themselves and being concerned of attacks from either side.

The internet must be a very difficult place for Bhakta Corey.

Yeah great, but what kind of people are going to respond to that?

I disagree with most of what Janmastami prabhu says, but I love the way he says it. If its about the search for Internet allies, Im not keen for Pariprashnena to descend into a mosh pit of ISKCON controversy and complaints. I prefer to keep focusing on moving forward.

Sure weve all been ripped off and disappointed. However, thats not a function of ISKCON, thats a function of the material world. Theres no sense in being a cry baby about it - man up and go back home, back to Godhead.

We can learn the lessons from our past without having to dwell on the details. And we dont need to keep dragging out the same old tired stories either. People change, and we should give them the chance to learn from their mistakes and to move forward, and we should do the same thing.

Admin: Please inform us how many people sign up from Bhakta Coreys referral. He is definitely enthusiastic to distribute books so it is very nice.

Sure, people change. lets give them a chance to move forward.

My concern is when devotees have made serious mistakes in their devotional life such as supporting serious deviants, peadophiles and those implicated in murders of devotees, and in the name of giving them a chance to move forward become gurus or GBC members when they return to the fold. Does anyone find this a strange?

Im not for useless harping on the faults of others, but when there are devotees in positions of authority who have given extended ongoing support to known criminals, peadophiles and murderers, I think people should know about it. The torchlight of knowledge shines in all directions, not just on the good.

Unfortunately, history shows that if you be the change you want to see, man up and speak the historical truth for the benefit of others so they can make an informed judgement about someone, you are censured or called a warmonger or a crybaby. Despite speaking historical truth, you are told you are denigrating others. Perhaps those who speak this way are so emotionally invested in our choice of guru that our judgement is skewed, just as Arjunas judgement was?

SKC: Aspersions, insinuations, doubts, suspicions, "guilt by implication", "guilt by association", "what people were up to twenty years ago", are no substitute for real personal experience of present realities.

Id be interested in hearing from you about your day to day life. About things that happened in the past I speak first hand to people who were there, whom I know personally. That way I know who I am hearing from, what their actual first-hand experience is, and something about their perspective and agenda.

So you can tell as many stories as you like, but I doubt you can tell me anything that I havent already heard from people that I know who were there and saw it first hand, and again, Im personally focused on moving forward.

If you want to be credible, then be credible. We already know what happened. If you want to influence people, then be yourself, dont rely on stories about other people. It detracts from the credibility of your posture to be all about demanding accountability of others while you have none yourself. Im sure youre a great person - so why not be yourself and let that speak to the world?

My day to day reality is.....

I see young devotees shouting "Jaya Gurudev, saviour of the three worlds" to devotees who have given more than 10 -20 years proactive support to known criminals, peadophiles and murderers.

My day to day reality is.....

I asked the authorities how someone who supported serious deviants, peadophiles and those implicated in murders of devotees become gurus or GBC members? Their honest answer was I dont know. I appreciated their honesty.

My day to day reality is.....

I ask others for an answer. Im told there is an answer but that Im not credible, or Im anonymous, or dont dwell on the past, or you werent there. And after all is said and done and I dont actually get an answer.

Did someone say something? Or was that digital wind whistling through the trees?

Anyway, SKC, Ive given you some advice on how you can get some traction. Do the same thing, get the same result. Dont make any changes if youre happy with the way things are going. However, it seems to me that youre not happy with the response that your current approach is getting. If you want a different result, then try something different. You have my ten cents - collect a few more from others and youll have enough change to buy an ice cream cone, or enough advice to make some real changes to the situation, starting with yourself - its up to you what you choose to do.

Dear friends I think we should find some internet site award and vote for Bhakta Coreys site.

http://www.sankirtandiary.com/

I had a look its pretty good. Well there is that unfortunate thing about this site, but putting that aside for a moment, Its an interesting site with some good articles. They read well and they are informative. I like it. What do you think of a score from between one and ten. where 10 is th best. I think in the blog catagory it is a six. (6)

The counter says hes only had 5000 people visit he needs our help in that department. I looked at many pages.

I notice the story about the dogs now that was a bit weirdwith that photo of a dog dressed up and this text:

"I simply think about dogs and realize that the sex desire between humans is no different than the sex desire of two dogs.

Yes, and what a beautiful dog you are. I love your small thin ears that just hang down, they are so beautiful. Also, your soft white fur... Lets spend the rest of our life together, and be happy!"

I think that beats anything here hands down. Its just the unfortunate juxtaposition of the text and photos but it just seems weird to me

Im sticking with my six anyway how would you rate the site?

Funny thing is there are lots of sites that actually do openly criticize for no other purpose than attack and damage, why single out this site?

[quote][cite] abrennan:[/cite]Funny thing is there are lots of sites that actually do openly criticize for no other purpose than attack and damage, why single out this site?[/quote]
yeah. at least on this one we can criticize back! :) (just kidding here) (kinda)

[quote][cite] abrennan:[/cite]Funny thing is there are lots of sites that actually do openly criticize for no other purpose than attack and damage, why single out this site?[/quote]

No need to list them here...

SRI ISOPANISAD

mantra 12, from the purport:

Sri Isopanishad advises us not to bother with any destination within this dark material universe, but to try to get out of it and reach the effulgent kingdom of God. There are many pseudo worshipers who become religionists only for the sake of name and fame. Such pseudo religionists do not wish to get out of this universe and reach the spiritual sky.

(full text below as attachment)

[quote][cite] sitapati:[/cite]

If you want to see a change, then be the change, and help others to do so. Too much focusing on "the problems" and blaming "the man" and "the system" is really unproductive.[/quote]

I tried that philosophy for a while when I was a participating member of ISKCON. It took some time before I realized all the talk about pro-activity and affecting change was just jargon and not reality. It sounds good, and it keeps the dream alive so to speak, but when push comes to shove the good ole boys club stands firm in their proprietorship.
[br][br]
The example of Srila Prabhupada is a good one. It would be better off to start your own group.

[quote][cite] abrennan:[/cite]Funny thing is there are lots of sites that actually do openly criticize for no other purpose than attack and damage, why single out this site?[/quote]
There is a danger that pariprashnena is sucessful. Sucess if normaly the main reason for putting others down. Nobody bothers with failing projects or people who can not do anything. So its a compliment I take for pariprashnena.com

It could be a proof that openness works and THAT is dangerous. No more need of censors to save the KC web world.? Somebody could be fired from their job.

openness is good. anonymity i find disappointing though. the combination can be sickening sometimes.

the very nature of the Internet allows people to participate without fear of repression, public harassment or just to keep confidential out of shyness.
those who use the anonymity to throw the stone and hide the arm are easily identifiable and best is to ignore them, they are just cowards.
non-anonymous heavily censored sites are almost useless in my view (and boring because you already know what you will find, no plurality)

Sita-pati prabhu, you havent given me even ten cents worth of advice. So far my concerns are fobbed off as digital wind, Ive been told to get traction, change myself, become a man, stop being a crybaby, been called unaccountable, unable to move forward, had my personal experience invalidated, told Im unworthy of a response because Im anonymous. The current market rate for dysfunctional avoidance techniques is a dime a dozen my friend.

Why is it so hard to answer the question? What is the value of discoursing on leadership when all we do is dodge and weave an answer on, shock horror, standards of leadership? What happened to the 2014 "Sita-pati School of Leadership and Preaching where You feel personally accountable for the welfare of your community and the people around you."? What happend to your "area of talent and contribution: to provide clarity and direction in situations of confusion and uncertainty."

By the way you speak (write), Im guessing yourre in management. Correct? Id also guess you have an authority who is referred to in my question. Correct? If so, perhaps yourre not the best person to provide an objective answer.

If you have heard from "people that I know who were there and saw it first hand" as you say, then why not provide clarity to this unfortunate soul and summarise their answers? Is it so hard? Im not demanding accountabilty, not calling for revolution, Im just asking how devotees who have given more than 10 -20 years proactive support to known criminals, peadophiles and murderers can, within a decade, become gurus and GBC members? Given your considerable research on leadership principles, I would have thought this shouldnt be a hard question for you.

And if I cant get an intelligent answer from Iskcon, where can I get I from? If I cant get an intelligent answer from someone in Iskcon who writes extensively about leadership, where can I get it from? Tell me and Ill go there.

Pariprashnena does not mean "absurd inquiries" which are rhetorical in nature and are a veiled means to promote an agenda. It means sincere inquiry from persons that you accept as qualified to give you the definitive answer.

I think that this site should refocus on its original intention and drop the gramya-katha aspect. I like hanging out here and hearing ccd and VEDA answer philosophical questions. Im less interested in hearing people complain, "warn the new bhaktas", or "hold other people accountable by posting on a website read by a handful of devotees". Im not against that stuff, its just that there are other sites for that kind of katha.

SKC, if you sincerely want an answer then you should first work out who you accept as an authority to provide that answer, then you should ask there. Dont go around "asking" people that you dont accept as an authority. That is not Pariprashnena.

Whether or not you accept me as an authority to answer this question for you, I am happy to speak with you about it. I was there when the GBC / guru thing happened and for a number of years before that, and I have asked these same questions myself.

Send me an email to sitapati (at) worldsankirtan.net and we can speak on the phone, as human beings and fellow devotees. Not as outraged internet personas :-)

Im going down to New Govardhana this weekend for the Sunday Feast, so Sunday is out, but I can call you tomorrow, Saturday, at my cost. No problem.

your servant,
Sita-pati das

So after Ive been told to get traction, change myself, become a man, stop being a crybaby, been called unaccountable, unable to move forward, had my personal experience invalidated, told Im unworthy of a response because Im anonymous, now my query is grouped in with absurd inquiries, rhetorical questions, veiled agendas, insincere, outraged persona, gramya-katha, and complaining. And then Im invited to "speak as human beings, fellow devotees." ???? Wow. I dont think Ill be taking up that offer.

And thank you for your invitation to discuss with you whether or not I accept you as authority or not. You can pass that mercy to some other blind follower.

Why is it so difficult to post an answer to my question?

[quote][cite] SKC:[/cite]
Why is it so difficult to post an answer to my question?[/quote]

Are you "Bh Gorey" then? Should it be a different question then. I guess your question is: whats wrong with you ppl?

SKC, imho Sitapati was speaking mainly in general. Its your choice to reject his offer but in my eyes it makes you significantly less relevant.

I think skc raises very fundamental questions which someone should be able to answer and should answer, after all we are supposed to be in the business of honesty.

So Janmastami, it seems that no-one here can answer your question. I wish you all the best as you continue in your quest to find somewhere where it can be answered to your satisfaction. Goodbye.

lots of love,
your servant
Sita-pati das

it is not "my question", but rather bh. coreys (all glories to his service to distributing Srila Prabhupadas books), "is Pariprashnena website is a fringie website that should be avoided by all strict ISKCON devotees who want to avoid becoming contaminated?", that was asked here. i posted no "questions" on this thread.

by posting, you have seemingly answered him with a resounding "NO!", in your opinion, but outside of some new age organizational info, as youve said, " no-one here can answer your question.". the bums rush off the website is not accepted, unless you have placed yourself in some position of censorship or unless you yourself are leaving this forum. either way, "good bye" to you also.

and also. good luck to you in your spiritual quest. may you find The Absolute Truth,
and hopefully then you will be able to answer some of the abundant questions others may have when you do.

Last messages pertained to a different new possible question and became at one point personal attacks. For your convenience we are putting the deleted posts as an attachment in case you want to read it. Please stick to the question at hand and avoid personal quarrel. Thank you.

Canto 7: The Science of God
Chapter 8
jahy asuram bhavam imam tvam atmanah
samam mano dhatsva na santi vidvishah
rite jitad atmana utpathe sthitat
tad dhi hy anantasya mahat samarhanam

Prahlada Maharaja continued: My dear father, please give up your demoniac mentality. Do not discriminate in your heart between enemies and friends; make your mind equipoised toward everyone. Except for the uncontrolled and misguided mind, there is no enemy within this world. When one sees everyone on the platform of equality, one then comes to the position of worshiping the Lord perfectly.

is bhakta corey a fringie guy?

just kidding!
:)

I am not happy about ADMIN deleting those interesting posts, seems like a little bit of unrequired censorship. I thought this site was very interesting because it allowed most questions, even well deserved constructive criticism of the gbc.
It seems that ADMIN are unable to practise the ccd quote regarding Prahlada Maharajas great siksa, when it is applied to devotees who they dont agree with. Please can you put them back.

kes: please read above, is a problem of form not content. we are keeping the posts as attachment. The theme can be added as a new question (without the personal petty quarrels :)

I think "skc" should start a new question, because it was a very deep question which got me thinking and I would like to see if someone can answer it for the benefit of all, unlike "sitapati" who is willing to answer in private only.

Question for Corey. Are you the same Corey who send an email on PAMHO dated 25 July, announcing the launch of Pariprashnena?

PARIPRASHNENA IS A WASTE OF TIME

how would you see it better used Tulsiananda das?

Pariprashnena is doing the job that writers/reporters did before in order to denounce frauds,corruptions as this is not reserved now to newspapers,thanks to internet.So,it is very useful,if weeds can be uprooted from a Movement founded to save the world!
Its a waste of time if one has closed mindedness,or does not wish that the Movement progresses.
As any forum,positive suggestions as well as glorification of sincere devotees are good for this Movement.

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