Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

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Hare Krishna and Hari Bol
We all have only one Maha Mantra! Where is the scope of improvisation? The question is not clear. Who has to pay for course/seminar, organizers or the participants? Where from and why at all shall the particiants come?

Are you talking about the retreat given by Bhurijana prabhu?

Japa Workshop

Becoming Friends with the Holy Name

* Discover where your chanting needs most improvement;
* Develop positive japa habits that will stay with you for life;
* Gain greater insights into Lord Caitanyas Siksastaka prayers, and see how to apply them in your life;
* Increase your faith in the Holy Name;
* Taste the nectar of the Holy Name in new ways;
* Become inspired to make japa a top priority in your life;
* And much more.

MAHA MANTRA WASHES WHITER!

http://bhagavatlife.com

PS.The participants:from the deep ocean of blooped devotees after departure of gurus with female[or male] disciples!

Bhurijana dasa has japa retreats in Vrndavan.

Hare Krishna and Hari Bol
I fully agree with the OBJECTIVES as stated by Prabhu Govindas108 for the seminar/workshop for Japa Mantra. We have highly skilled and experienced devotees among us, who can be the tutors for the workshop. Let the duration initially be only two hours and the workshop can be on a very modest payment. Can we organize this on Sunday feast days? We can have a good no of participants on this day as mostly members come and attend Sunday pravachans. But before this the concerned Brahmacharies shall have to be trained for the itinerary of the workshop.

I mean, identify faculties. bhagwatlife.com - really a good site to browse
hare krishna

[quote][cite] govindas108:[/cite]Some devotees are making a business out of the Maha Mantra,which imho is not bonafide![/quote]

Seems to me they are paying for the facility of the retreat centre. Crazy world.

In regards to having a japa retreat, great idea. Get away from responsibilities and simply focus for a weekend, and try and improve your chanting. Nothing wrong with that.

IMHO, the room,board and transportation should be taken care of by the participant and not the facilitator. The program, seminar, retreat or whatever else you want to call it should, indeed, be free of charge. The program should take place at the temple or perhaps even a place donated by a well-wisher.

Sometimes, tho, the temple authorities ask for "rent from the programs. A couple of years ago there was a free of charge (donations if you could) bhakti sastri course at the Washington DC temple. I forget the facilitators name now. But he was very good and was giving very nice course.

Then the ball dropped, the temple authorities decided that rent was to be charged for use of the room etc! The facilitator mentioned it and but did not at first require payment then it got to be too much for him and he had to ask for money or you had to drop from the course. Many had to drop out due to inability to pay.

My point is that sometimes it is not the facilitators who are asking for the payment for the courses or retreats etc but the temple authorities are requiring "rent" or the program goes out the door.

[quote][cite] dave:[/cite][quote][cite] govindas108:[/cite]Some devotees are making a business out of the Maha Mantra,which imho is not bonafide![/quote]

Seems to me they are paying for the facility of the retreat centre. Crazy world.

In regards to having a japa retreat, great idea. Get away from responsibilities and simply focus for a weekend, and try and improve your chanting. Nothing wrong with that.[/quote]

Price:$290 for couple...guarantee money back!

This statement may come accross as a bit heavy but, it is my honest opinion. I hope it is not taken in the wrong way. Many times I devotees prefer to have things free. It takes money, time and effort conduct a seminar. In my opinion some form of payment should be given whether agreed upon or voluntarily. It is part of our culture to give reward to the brahmanas for giving us knowledge. Not that it is our business, but I am seeing that, that part of our culture is being lost. Everyone else regards what other devotees do as, "They should do it as a service." But isnt it part of our service to give something back in return.

If there is some genuine inablility to pay something on the part of a devotee a concession should be made.

Of course there should be no charge for vedic knowledge, but another point is that everything cost money.

I have been teaching a bhagavad Gita course at out temple for over the last one year and a half and I asked for a donation of at least $30TT per month ($4.50 USD). This would help to cover the of a little prasad, printed materials and other incremental expenses. The result was that on several occasions I had to put out money of my own pocket to get material for the devotees.

if devotees feel it is something valuable, why should they hesitate to give some contribution. So much money we pay for mundane education and mundane pleasures, why should we hesitate for giving some contribution for spiritual knowledge.

I hope I have not made any offense by these statements..............that was not my intention..................if so please please forgive me.

brahminical is let people know you accept donations but no fixed fees charging
brahmanas do not charge they accept whatever is given even service or gift
try this way depending totally on Krishna and you will see the magic

What you say is true Mishra, and your point is also good santa.

The hen has two halves - brahmanas should not charge is one half. You should give charity to brahmanas is the other half. So I think to have credibility in saying: "They should not charge!, one should also put their money where their mouth is and give donations to brahmanas. Maybe if everyone did that, then there would be no need to charge for any of these things?

At the same time the facilities angle is also there. We charge for our programs at Atma Yoga, but no-one makes a profit or even a living from it. We are all donating our time and energy, and our money in many cases to make up the shortfall, but at the end of the day the rent and utilities must be paid. So the guests pay as much as they would for either dinner or a yoga class anywhere else, and get both, plus association of devotees and the opportunity to come for kirtan, Bhagavad-gita study group or philosophy nights.

You have to be practical. If you have something else that works then please share the success story.

best is volontary small monthly membership program to support temple/preaching center. This way you do not have to charge for your service and you can keep your brahminical approach.

I agree with mishra....donations from congregation etc. to support these types of fundamental programs supplied by temples.

Charging fixed fees rather than living on the Lords mercy shows a materialistic mentality. With such a mentality, one cannot be qualified to teach anything from our philosophy, including the practice of the maha mantra. Hence the only result will be that ones chanting will be comtaminated, not enhanced, by taking instruction from a deviating materially motivated so-called devotee.

Probably it is not as light and normal as some want to be and not as dramatic as others explain.
Just that the mode of goodness platform has some characteristics and the mode of passion other.
And mode of goodness is the absolute minimum wherefrom one can advance in KC.
Passion tinged programs will bear passion effects. Like I was hearing about the japa retreats that people do "well" in the retreat and then return to their life to the same, wanting more retreats... clearly mode of passion motivated and no substantial advancement.

Probably it is not as light and normal as some want to be and not as dramatic as others explain.
Just that the mode of goodness platform has some characteristics and the mode of passion other.
And mode of goodness is the absolute minimum wherefrom one can advance in KC.
Passion tinged programs will bear passion effects. Like I was hearing about the japa retreats that people do "well" in the retreat and then return to their life to the same, wanting more retreats... clearly mode of passion motivated and no substantial advancement.

Personally if I had to pay to be taught everything I was in the beginning of my Krishna Consciousness I would have. But since I got all that knowledge for free I am against the idea of paying anyone anything for knowledge.

For supplies and other things I wouldnt mind. But when a devotee charges one hundred dollars for a class I wonder what the one hundred dollars really is going towards, and since I have never found out I have never gone to a class like that, nor would I ever want to in the future, no matter what they are teaching.

here you go another course, "only" $199 http://www.krishna.com/ecourse
I would understand a small monthly fee like $10 subscription as long as you are enrolled and willing, but this is going out the board of a brahminical approach imho

One justification I have often heard is to quote Srila Prabhupadas saying: people dont value anything unless they pay for it.

Deena: I think that refers to books. With that I agree.
There ere are hundreds of examples of the contrary, like the Holy Name should be taught free of charge.
Problem is real brahmanas teaching liberally and depending on the Lord are scarce and being replaced by vaishya devotees trying to squeeze a few dimes from the basic teachings copying (unsuccessfully) new age venues. to make a living.

There is a difference between paying for material or material of the spiritual things (like book production costs) and charging for the mantra. One can not charge anything for the mantra or instructions or Bhagavatam readings (elements of bhagavata viddhi). One can charge for material facilities such as place to sleep and catering during such festival or seminar, for printed material given and for administration fees if any... basically do not change for the things you got for free as they do not belong to you... ysccd

Here is an interesting looking seminar on prasad distribution.

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=7742

Some interesting specifics in the seminar advertisement: "Only devotees who are actually going to cook and distribute prasad may
apply. No managers please. There is no charge for the course. Knowledge cannot be bought."

Srila Prabhupada writes in uc0u346 ru299 mad Bhu257 gavatam purport of 1.11.23

"The bru257 hmanu803 as in society were never attentive to banking money for future retired life......"
So sometimes when people read this they think, oh lets have a ishtagoshti, to make sure that no brahmanas have a bank account. Because having a bank account would be against the teachings of Srimad Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada.

but for someone who reads the rest of the purport they may have a different idea.
".......When they were old invalids, they used to approach the assembly of the kings, and simply by praising the glorious deeds performed by the kings, along with their wives, they would be provided with all necessities of life. Such bru257 hmanu803 as were not, so to speak, flatterers of the kings, but the kings were actually glorified by their actions, and they were sincerely still more encouraged in pious acts by such bru257 hmanu803 as in a dignified way. Lord u346 ru299 Kru803 su803 nu803 a is worthy of all glories, and the praying bru257 hmanu803 as and others were glorified themselves by chanting the glories of the Lord."

So the question is where are those praiseworthy kings that the brahmanas should go to, to glorify and thus receive donations so that they may receive the necessities of life?

I find it strange, and some sort of envy, that some individuals are willing to give their hard earned money to mundane educators (colleges) but when a devotee is involved we dont want him getting a cent.

The problem of ungrateful people exists, but that should not change the principles the brahmana lives with in sattva and give the needed shakti, depending on whatever arrangement the Lord sends (except any type of salary or fixed fees, thus becoming an employee).

For me, those principles still hold in the real modern world. I am practicing them, but then again you cannot expect becoming rich or well off with that kind of approach. A brahmana doesn'b4t care about that anyway.

Say, What?
BY: JANMASTAMI DAS
related: http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-09/editorials5178.htm

The incredible amount of effort and planning that has gone into ISKCONs guru school cannot be overstated. A list of the ISKCON stalwarts who have combined their spiritual shaktis for this effort is given -- Radhanatha Swami, Jayapataka Swami, Bhakti Charu Swami, Prahladananda Swami, Ananda Vrindavanesvari dasi, Rukmini dasi, Ravindra Svarupa dasa, Braja Bihari dasa, Rasamandala dasa and others -- and by ISKCON standards, these must be the most qualified persons in "the entire world", albeit "the ISKCON world".

The vision for this institution, clearly an afterthought that has taken these concoctors over thirty years to conceive of, reveals to us the organizational approach to dealing with the inconsistencies that were manifest as a result of earlier deviations from their Gurus personal instruction on these matters.

When the bone is thrown on the floor before all the candidates for guruhood, it is known that only the real dogs will flinch. Having flinched (or other types of falldowns) in the past is still not a disqualification for admittance to this wonderful school ,as it has been seen that even past flinchers have reclaimed those lofty perches blamed for their original falldown. Simply the friendship of those currently occupying such posts is sufficient for reinstatement, and, as in all ISKCON cases to date, return of the funds you took on your departure is not even required. Who knew that the demand for "gurus" was that great?

These "facilitators" have decided that twice yearly classes will accommodate both those needing an ongoing supply of "in good standing" gurus, as well as to "accommodate the growing interest and demand" by those in or considering entering the guru business. By failing to distinguish between siksa and diksa gurus, only general instructions pertinent to both classes need be discussed, thereby instantiating their foregone conclusion that each of these assuming the diksa role was qualified to do so at the time their names were brought forward. As an "all knowing bona fide, pure devotee link with The Absolute Truth", surely they were aware of their eternal relationship with their multitudes of disciples (hence their "eternal" relationships) even though they have not yet happened, just as Srila Prabhupada was familiarized with the ashram /temple scheme that KRSNA had set for his future, even as early as His first days on arriving in New York.

Subordination to your teacher, long the test of the validity of the Vaisnava sampradayas, is not clearly explained, neither is there any mention of the "superiority" of any of these "parallel lines of authority", because clearly by accepting these conditions, one admits that their knowledge is not yet complete, as one might have assumed that it would be were they in a bona fide "representative" arrangement with The Absolute Truth. Neither is the subject of guru dakshina discussed, nor the cost of the instruction, nor the acceptable rates to charge disciples in various countries at the current time. Surely a guru regulatory agency is somewhere in the future plans.

Various concerned parties have suggested prior to enrollment, these prospective guru school candidates might want to talk to some "alumni" of other ISKCON schools, as one might with any bona fide institution of higher knowledge, and see how its former alumni have fared. We are uncertain if this proposal has all the ISKCON support that it might need in order to be widely advocated, but it must certainly not be dismissed as "just a thought", because these matters are highly relevant to the direction the movement is taking these days -- at least the portion of "the movement" that is currently affected by ISKCONs leaders.

Any GBC mandate to change the direction of the movement, as after the Zonal period, must be predicated on the assumptions that although previous errors were made, somehow or other, now everything is correct, and the repeated failure to find this confident situation, more than the allure of materialism, has led many of those former ashram dwellers to modify their lifes behavior and in many cases, to leave the day to day association of the other ashram dwellers.

Statements like these:

"Srila Prabhupadas vision of thousands of gurus working cooperatively within a single institution is unique and bold. The attendees discussed both the successes and failures in ISKCONs past as a means to build a clear roadway forward to fulfilling Srila Prabhupadas vision."

show the complete breakdown of touch with reality by those who would mold the behavior of a pure devotee representative of The Lord. That they cannot even reconcile the basic tenet of the final instructions on the matter of "succession" within ISKCON leaves little doubt as to whether one of these "enlightened individuals" holds the spiritual candlepower to be anything more than a firefly in the darkness of kali-yuga.

Understanding that leads persons from their rightful inheritance as servants of The Lord, no matter how well intended it once was, does no one any spiritual good. Simply "daily meals supplied by the ashram" does not "a successful spiritual life" make.

Very nice sentment mishra prabhu....actual qualified brahmana are indeed rare...charging for classes i find this awfully mundane

[quote][cite] NityanandaChandra:[/cite]
So the question is where are those praiseworthy kings that the brahmanas should go to, to glorify and thus receive donations so that they may receive the necessities of life?

I find it strange, and some sort of envy, that some individuals are willing to give their hard earned money to mundane educators (colleges) but when a devotee is involved we dont want him getting a cent.[/quote]

I agree. The system of support for brahmanas and elderly women is not as it was in the society some two thousands years back. Educators needs to live and survive, thus because there is absolutely no culture of charity to brahmanas in the West; because people feel that giving to others should be done annonimously and not directly to the teacher or educator, in fact charity is limited to church and to poor, thus educator accepting charity must be poor or should take it only on belhaf of the church. The pinciple that one is independent, as a brahmana is more critical then not having a bank account, Prabhupada had personal bank accounts thus it is fine to have one.

"Prabhupada had personal bank accounts thus it is fine to have one."

jaya!

Never have i heard that paying money or attending seminars will improve Maha Mantra chanting.

'93No, they are not brahmanas. Those who give education in exchange for money'97they are not brahmanas. For instance, we are lecturing, educating people. We don'92t say, '93Give us a salary.'94..We are not asking money'97'94First of all pay the fee; then you can come and learn Bhagavad-gita.'94 We never say that...That is dog'92s business.'94
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, April 28th, 1977)

Nice quote.Most of the time devotees who joined did not give a fee, they gave all the money they had and some even gave away all credit they had, and went bankrupt. So a small fee will not do..

It costs money to fly Sacinandana Swami , Mahatma prabhu and others around to organize these workshops

.It also costs to rent the retreat center facilities, cover the etra prasadam, etc...

If you try to do this workshop in the temple , Ive seen it done , by Bhakti Brhat Bhagavata Maharaja in Montreal, so it seems to be doable on ISKCON property , but others prefer to have it done off the property, so you need to pay more for that.

Donations are great, as long as they end up covering the cost of the expenses.