Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Yes, I have seen sometimes a bit too much disfunctionality in man/women relationships within our movement.

One thing is the mutual respect and distance we owe to renunciants and mothers; another is the inner fear caused by our own frailties that makes some devotees "hate" or dismiss the opposite sex as dangerous and evil.

Usually the only "evil" is our own fragility in the matter, our own unbalanced and immature consciousness and that makes the things even worse for us and our fellow devotees.

I have seen renunciates that truly do not hate women and that is caused by their inner true joy, they are not renouncing for whatever reason else than because it is natural for them.

On the other hand I have seen hateful brahmacaries etc ... making derogatory statements about women, matajis, etc. Usually they are the ones that marry sooner and many times with a "sergeant" type of women. :)

As for the women, the other side of the pendulum here would be the ones that adore sannyasis in an improper way.

I will explain now. Attraction between different sexes is the same drive, but happens for different reasons.

As we all know men are attracted mainly to external features of women. The same attraction women have is for different reasons and the main is women seek intelligent men, leaders of the pack, to put it bluntly.

What are sannyasis but leaders of varnashrama society, so here we go.... That is why is so important to make arrangements to protect the renunciates and on the other hand keep the atmosphere free of women hate for the sake of it.

If we fail to understand these psychological aspects, men devotees could end hating women or women elaborate on worshiping sannyasis in a shameful non vaishnava way.

I seem to disagree on some points of what attracts some women...What you said may be so, for some, but not for all. Although women might seek intelligent men, it does not matter if they are leaders of the pack, so to speak. I believe alot of women have needs such as friendship, companionship, protection, understanding, and a common bond on our spiritual path. Without that bond, it makes it very difficult to come together in unity in our daily duties. It is always kind of like a tug-of-war. Women may be attracted by external features, as well, but what is most important to me is the heart within...spirit soul.

Please try to understand that I speak of atraction in general terms.

Of course not all people is summed up with my examples and there are myriads of other things to consider.

I used the not so subtle points to try to illustrate a problem that undoubtely is affecting us.

Problem is when we mix the spiritual and the material concepts. On one hand sometimes we seem capable of seeing the spirit soul through the covering, on the other we are still materially affected and that is why there must be some limitations and rules on gender association.

The point I was tryng to make is the deep disfunctionality we find too often in temple enviroments and it'b4s possible mend. With those immaturity problems would be almost impossible to find all the shelter we are looking for.

Dear Lionheart:

You said:
"If we are not the body, why we are so conscious of it when it comes to social contact? Can you please clarify this for me? "

The proper behavior is to not associate with brahmacaris (renunciates, guys wearing the orange colored cloth) if you are female. Sadly, in the west, this point seems hard for a lot of people to accept.

Also, Misras comment about men hating women:
Women are not to be hated. That is childishly fanatical, and anyone who is that averse to women is obviously in trouble.

Now, we should not confuse the two-
1. Understanding the importance of separation of men and women
2. Blind fanatical hatred towards women

There is quite a lot of difference between the above two points. They should not be confused with one another.

The problem starts when we try to mix in our own ideas about society and culture (which are generally based on our own modernistic conditioning) with the Vedic culture which Srila Prabhupada prescribed for us.

Perhaps most of our problems are caused by our own unwillingness to let go of our previous attachments (western modernistic conditioning), and surrender fully to Srila Prabhupada (that means accepting his teachings "as it is", not choosing which parts we want to follow and rejecting which parts we dont want to follow)?

Lionheart:

Here is a scriptural statement regarding restricting association between women and renunciates:

The Vedic civilization, being based on spiritual understanding, arranges association with women very cautiously. Out of the four social divisions, the members of the first order (namely brahmacarya), the third order (v'e4naprastha) and the fourth order (sanny'e4sa) are strictly prohibited from female association. Only in one order, the householder, is there license to mix with women under restricted conditions.
-Srila Prabhupada, Srimad-Bhagavatam, 3.31.35 Purport

Now, should anyone misunderstand my position and start slurring me with labels such as "fanatic", "extremist", "woman-hater", etc, Id like to repeat the above point that I made earlier:

Now, we should not confuse the two-
1. Understanding the importance of separation of men and women
2. Blind fanatical hatred towards women

There is quite a lot of difference between the above two points. They should not be confused with one another. To understand the difference requires a little bit of maturity, as well as proper discrimination (which seems to be in short supply these days).