Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

nowhere. they become ghosts.

ghosts? does the dutas, yama or visnuduts work before the absolute government to spare them them own jurdgemnt and palce ?

their punishment by nature is to stay in this word in a disembodied form, so they suffer in this way for some time. The movie "Ghost" was based on this understanding and if I was not misinformed they took advice from a devotee, perhaps Giriraj Swami.

Yes !
hari Bol, Dear Mishra Prabhu,
got a question now, for example here, if i myself had this issue of my father committing suicide.. and i seen it affected us as a family, in the same way in that case, i had heard that "initiation" will ultimately deliver almost seven generations of past and coming ones inside the family where the candidate is applying for example, how would i know when he could be (my father) delivered ? i had heard of ekadasis for giving them entrance on heaven for example, or for in this case, be freed from that suffering condition and the one the family is in ??

can we as perfected devotees of krsna be so merciful ?

we should be merciful to all living entities what to speak of our parents. Be certain that the best service to your father is to be a devotee yourself.
If you feel like, offer from time to time some maha prasadam to your father and that will be a powerful means to purify his present existence, wathever it may be.
I repeat, being you a devotee, Krishna will arrange expertly the best course for your fathers spiritual advancement, do not worry too much.

I think what Mishra is trying to say is "Just chant Hare Krishna"

huh?

[quote][cite] Suryavanshi:[/cite]Yes !
hari Bol, Dear Mishra Prabhu,
got a question now, for example here, if i myself had this issue of my father committing suicide.. and i seen it affected us as a family, in the same way in that case, i had heard that "initiation" will ultimately deliver almost seven generations of past and coming ones inside the family where the candidate is applying for example, how would i know when he could be (my father) delivered ? i had heard of ekadasis for giving them entrance on heaven for example, or for in this case, be freed from that suffering condition and the one the family is in ??

can we as perfected devotees of krsna be so merciful ?[/quote]

Your father may already have taken birth again...in your own family:as a child,a four-legged entity[plse dont be offended...this can happen to anyone!] or some other form of life...
But if you become a pure devotee,then 7 generations will be liberated form this samsara[cycle of births and deaths]
The problem may be to get a good guide or living spiritual master,as they are rare!
Otherwise,Srila Prabhupada is still living ..in his books!

Ghosts are no longer limited by material obstacles,so they can reside everywhere,from airplanes,trains,castles,in the bodies of people[of weak character:drunkards,drug-addicts,mentally instable people,who then are described as schizophrenic:multiple personalities in one body]
As they still have plenty of material desires to satisfy,but without a body,they cant and so the suffering is worse.So,there are rituals that can be done to give them their favourite whisky or cigarettes....and sex!
But eventually,they will all get another body,according to their karma!
So...chant intensely and do as much service to vaisnavas!
Only delivered souls,those who can control their senses,can deliver others...

very much Thanks, hare Krsnaaa !!

Thanks all. Do all suicides become ghosts? For example, if a very advanced and "good devotee:" should become discouraged and kills himself will he be a ghost just like the regular man?Also does the reason why the person kills himself make any difference? I think I heard years ago that very great saintly devotees in the "old days" such as a sanyasi were told to "commit suicide" if they had a falldown. Of course, I heard that Srila Prabhpada made it clear that his devotees were not to commit suicide if they had a falldown. I have heard that suicide is the" greatest sin" that anyone can commit. I have heard of suicides in ISKCON and it very heartbreaking.

Some people throw themselves under the heavy wheels of the Jagganatha chariot;others at the junction of the Yamuna and Sarasvati rivers:they are supposed to get liberated....but the best is to face the problem,which is insignificant,when seen and analysed expertly by a spiritual master,as time cures everything.Suicide is like trying to escape from jail:as soon as you get caught again,the sentence gets longer,and security is tighter!
The intelligent soul accepts his ordeals,which is,if he is a devotee, greatly reduced by the Lords mercy,and his prayers gets more intense and sincere towards the Lord,who will magically extinguish the fire of suffering.
Many attempts of suicide do not succeed,and the persons body gets even more problematic or paralysed,prolonging the pain.
We should always remember how much suffering we caused to other living entities before meeting the devotees,by destroying their bodies and eating them,and we may still be the cause of suffering to others at present,so isnt it justice to experience some suffering also?
We do not know what rascal we were in past lives,and what horrible actions we did then,but those in charge of our karma know everything,and give us the right punishment.Some great pains could be also the last ones in this material universe!

In dharma sastra there is a principle higher knowledge - heavier karma. Therefor a brahmana gets much worse karma for the same sins than a sudra. And also a much more severe penance is required from him.

Black cat, what you heard sounds like a distant description of the final lila of H.H. Visnujana Swami.

Visnujana Swami was married when he came to Krishna Consciousness, and had a daughter that he delivered with his own hands. Things didnt work out and his wife didnt want to join the movement. Visnujana got more and more involved, and later on took sannyasa.

In 1975, after 7 years as a devotee, if memory serves me correctly, Visnujana Swami spent about an hour talking with his ex-wife after a Ratha Yatra in New York (?). Later he went to Mayapura. Whether he considered this conversation to be a falldown, whether he did something else, whether he was contemplating his ability to continue on in the sannyasa ashram is not known for sure.

What we do know (its recorded in the Vedabase, you can look up the conversation), is that on a morning walk with Prabhupada Visnujana Swami asked about what happened to Chota Haridasa, who had been banished by Lord Caitanya for associating with a woman, and who committed suicide. Prabhupada affirmed that he had atoned for his falldown by committing suicide.

After this there is a minute or so of other talk, and then Srila Prabhupada said that this is not our way, that if one of our men falls down he should pick himself up and carry on.

However, Visnujana had fallen back and dropped away from the group by the time Prabhupada explained this.

He was not seen again. His passport was left in his room there in Mayapura with his things.

Later villagers reported that a white sadhu had paid brahmanas to chant mantras so that he would not become a ghost, and had then had a boatman take him out into the Ganga, where he tied stones to his cloth and jumped into the water.

My personal thoughts on this are that on one level Visnujana Swami realized that he couldnt continue in the sannyasa ashram, and rather than face the dishonor of a falldown to grhasta life, gave up his body.

On another level, he could not stand separation from Srila Prabhupada or the changes that were to come in ISKCON, so his manifest lila finished before that of his spiritual master, as did Jayananda Thakuras.

Those are my personal feelings. Both of these are to me, exemplary.

Of course humbly continuing from another position is also exemplary. To fall back and continue the fight is acceptable. To make a stand to the death is also acceptable.

About a year later, in Mayapura again (also in the Vedabase), Tamal Krishna Goswami is speaking with Srila Prabhupada during his massage (if memory serves me correctly). He says that Visnujana has not been seen in India or in the West. TKG says: "I know he did not go back to material life". Srila Prabhupada says: "Wherever he is, he is chanting Hare Krishna".

H.H. B.V. Tripurari Swami was once asked: "What can I do for a relative who has become a ghost".

His reply: "If you are dear to Krishna, then whoever you think of favorably, Krishna will be merciful to. So you become dear to Lord Krishna, and in this way help your relative".

In the Manu Samhita ritual suicide is mandated for brahmanas in order to purify their body if they contaminate it, for example by taking water from a clay pot that previously held alcohol. Lord Brahma also "committed suicide" by giving up his body after chasing his daughter. You can also give up your mental body by releasing your attachment to mental states and conceptions of the self.

When devotees asked if they should try to implement Manu Samhitas instructions Srila Prabhupada told them that if they did, they would all have to die. :-)

Execution by the state or scripturally mandated ritual suicide performed as a duty are understood to nullify offenses and future karma, thereby granting the criminal or offender a clean slate in their next life. Thats the idea.

Suicide in the mode of ignorance, done out of misery or a desire to escape responsibility is renunciation in the mode of ignorance. The idea is that this will lead one to a ghostly existence. It may, or it may not, however the fact is that it is not recommended, and is not favorable.

So some people will become ghosts, and some will be reborn as brahmanas or other human personalities, with a clean slate from their previous offenses. It is like Krishnas answer to Arjuna in the 17th chapter: Suicide is of three types - depending on the consciousness of the performer it is said to be of the nature of the mode of passion, goodness, or ignorance.

I would use the descriptions of renunciation, probably, to understand the distinctions.

Thank you so much for this very interesting information.

[quote][cite] Gaurangaliladas:[/cite][quote][cite] Suryavanshi:[/cite]Yes !
hari Bol, Dear Mishra Prabhu,
got a question now, for example here, if i myself had this issue of my father committing suicide.. and i seen it affected us as a family, in the same way in that case, i had heard that "initiation" will ultimately deliver almost seven generations of past and coming ones inside the family where the candidate is applying for example, how would i know when he could be (my father) delivered ? i had heard of ekadasis for giving them entrance on heaven for example, or for in this case, be freed from that suffering condition and the one the family is in ??

can we as perfected devotees of krsna be so merciful ?[/quote]

Your father may already have taken birth again...in your own family:as a child,a four-legged entity[plse dont be offended...this can happen to anyone!] or some other form of life...
But if you become a pure devotee,then 7 generations will be liberated form this samsara[cycle of births and deaths]
The problem may be to get a good guide or living spiritual master,as they are rare!
Otherwise,Srila Prabhupada is still living ..in his books!

Ghosts are no longer limited by material obstacles,so they can reside everywhere,from airplanes,trains,castles,in the bodies of people[of weak character:drunkards,drug-addicts,mentally instable people,who then are described as schizophrenic:multiple personalities in one body]
As they still have plenty of material desires to satisfy,but without a body,they cant and so the suffering is worse.So,there are rituals that can be done to give them their favourite whisky or cigarettes....and sex!
But eventually,they will all get another body,according to their karma!
So...chant intensely and do as much service to vaisnavas!
Only delivered souls,those who can control their senses,can deliver others...[/quote]

so mainly, prabhus can then in my case be i having for adopting his Divine grace srila Prabhupada as my Father missing figure? this really affect many people in the absolute context of the modes being us surrounded by this nature. i think that God Krsna blesses us all on those unfortunate events in life which in a sense can be very very beneficial on the ultimate promotion to the spiritual sky .. as the saying thus indicates; "God is as sure as Death".

hari bol.