Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

That would be the answer, no? 8)

I know two practicing monks and heard of several others at least appreciating KC, including a former bishop from Austria. Even more are probably not willing to go public. They will be mostly Catholics.

In Ukraine there is one priest that goes to the temple with black robes and chants and dances in the kirtan.

We should be aware that most christian leaders are agents of Maya,pro meat-eating,intoxication,gambling and sometimes abortion,unjustified wars around the world,pro bull-fighting and against "idol" worship,and thus against Krishna.They are doing all they can to christianize the whole world.
There are better christians,who are truly twice born,meaning they are living just like devotees,but worship Jesus,whereas there have been ,and still are"devotees",wearing tilak,who have been,and still are, agents of Maya!

We can judge someone by his actions!

Are you asking about a person
A) who was/is a Christian minister who is becoming a Vaishnav? Or
B) who has been devotee for many years who, for preaching, wants to act in capacity as Christian minister?

If A), KC, as taught by Srila Prabhupad, is a science and is non sectarian. One need not give up his current religion to take up the science of love of God taught by SP or LC. However, as part of the science we do learn that Krsna is the original form and name of God, so as one takes up more and more this great science, automatically one develops tendency to give up lower things for the higher taste.
And, when one realizes the original form of God is Krsna and the highest worship is Radha-Krsna, then one naturally wants to give those he ministers to the highest thing.

If B), then once one has the highest information of Krsna, and Gita, why would one want to preach to others about Christ from the Bible? When i first came to KC I heard devotees say how only Vaishnavs were qualified to understand the Bible. So, I wrote Srila Prabhupad and asked him if we, as Vaishnavs, should get a church and preach the Bible to the Christians. Eventually bringing them to Krsna. SP replied (letter was lost and not in Vedabase) that it was not recommended. That since we have got the highest thing we should give others the highest, we should give them Gita and Krsna directly, not indirectly...

---- On a last note, back around 1983 I was visiting Bhagavan in England and we had dinner with the then Arch Bishop of Canterbury, who is leader of the Church of England. He was very nice, elderly, gentleman, and mostly he just spoke of the coronation of the Queen which he presided over in 1951.
But, the person who got the Arch Bishop to come was his apprentice, a man named Rowan, who had been coming to the temple for some time. Rowan came that night with his Christan priest attire, AND a Hari Nam Chadar AND his JAPA Bag. He was regularly chanting Krsna JAPA. Since then the elderly Arch Bishop passed away and Mr Rowan is now currently the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, head of the Church of England, and he was for a while practicing KC and chanting the Maha Mantra on beads.

now i go like, can do Robert Nesta Marley become a nice devotee of Krsna throughout his extrovertness ? becouse He'b4s allready is. so its not a matter from an outsde world but from the Inside. why couldn'b4t it be compatible ? vaishnva true vaishanv are most gloriouss than a pope, i beleive.

There used to be a brahmacari/priest here in Australia...he wrote some valuable material about Christ in relation to Krsna...

Then there are followers of KC who are on the scholarly platform and try to reach the academia by presenting their vedic version of "other" religious movements. I try to avoid reading them as such because I find it dry and redundant.

> We should be aware that most christian leaders are agents of Maya,pro meat-eating,intoxication,gambling and sometimes abortion,unjustified wars around the world,pro bull-fighting and against "idol" worship,and thus against Krishna.They are doing all they can to christianize the whole world.

Then they are false leaders/followers of Christ, rejected by him. Krishna is also against idol worship, as opposed to murti worship.

> Then there are followers of KC who are on the scholarly platform and try to reach the academia by presenting their vedic version of "other" religious movements. I try to avoid reading them as such because I find it dry and redundant.

Any examples?

I personally dont see any negatives in a genuine devotee who is able present Christ in relation to Krsna, Srila Prabhupada himself mentions Christs relationship to Krsna many times in his books.

...perhaps it depends on what christian sect the minister may belong to,isnt the Bible described as " scripture for meat eaters " ?

I know a devotee who is minister and I spoke with him as I was interested in his experience.
He told me he was covering a segment of people, like old christian people and his preaching was very basic, like meat eating etc, but very effective because all this people will never heed a Hare Krishna, but they do follow his minister.
He and his wife are quite happy and they love Jesus and Krishna and Srila Prabhupada w/o a problem. Seen with these two eyes at their home . :)

I guess the only problem I see, if the initiated devotee will have to drink wine during a ceremony? Otherwise its an interesting preaching strategy. I have heard of devotees doing the mass, in Africa, instead of the local preacher, who was sick or away. Of course you will not talk about rasalila to those people... what is his name, Bhakiananda Swami, she is a monk with full vows.. what is wrong with that? I guess I just ask the question rather then aswers.

I totally agree with Govinda das. My sentiments exactly. Thank you prabhu.

Regarding wine, Bhakti Ananda M. commented:

"Wine does not always mean old wine. Wine that moved in the cup by itself was not to be consumed. In fact, old wine was often used in the Mediterranean and elsewhere in the ancient world like clorine, in very small amounts to kill the germs in possibly dangerous ground water. If there was so much fermented old wine (vino just means grape juice) in the mix. that it moved by itself (bubbles could be seen) it was too much and not to be taken.

"The sacramental wine itself consumed in Jewish rites and the eucharistic sacrifice was also not at all like modern wines. Its alcoholic content was not great before offering, and during offering, it was frequently mixed with water, becoming negligible. In fact, the Catholic eucharistic wine is always mixed with water, which renders it no more alcoholic than the juice of a very ripe piece of fruit. The incorruptible wine represented Christs divinity and the water represented his humanity, both of which were united completely in the incarnate body of the Lord. Then too, once offered, this mixture was
believed to be the blood of the sacrificed cosmic Purusha (soma, ambrosia, the nectar of the gods, the nectar of immortality, amrta, etc.).

"At the beginning of Vishnu sutra, in Bhumis prayers to Vishnu, soma (as in the Vedic sacrifices), is refered to as the blood of the Purusha. I saw this in an English side-by-side text of the Vishnu sutra while I was in India, and asked people about it. Those I asked explained that the Rig Vedic Purusha-sukta-based Vedic sacrifices of the fire and soma priests transformed the food and drink they offered into the body and blood of Purusha yupa dhvaja! Thus prasadam was the Purusha-ida or remnants of the sacrifice of Purusha. Soma was also apparently a potentially intoxicating drink, and strictly regulated through sacramental use."

Regarding rasalila in the Catholic and other monotheistic traditions he wrote much more. Here is an intro:

http://tinyurl.com/2omcr4

http://tinyurl.com/2qtbxn

ok. I gotta chuck in my 2 cents here. I havent thoroughly read all the comments - Im just addressing the original question: "Philosophy: Is it compatible to be a christian minister and initiated devotee at the same time?"

I think it would be a lot of work to maintain such a profile but I dont think that theres something totally wrong with it. In general though, I think devotees should strive to simplify their lives and live in as straightforward a manner as we can. When we complicate ourselves we have to live with a complicated approach towards the different facets of life.

Having said that, Ive seen some devotees maintain interfaith marriage relations quite successfully. Still I think that if such complication can be avoided it makes the mind more peaceful to genuinely approach bhakti.

Haribol, Dundavat pranamas to all.
I only wanted to briefly respond to Govindadas108 remark that "We can judge someone by his actions". Since this is a discussion relating to Jesus Christ, perhaps it would be good to consider, that the Lord Himself remarked concerning judgement, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." --Matthew 7:1-5. It appears to be rather common among those of us striving (with varying success) toward pure sattva, that (we) tend to take pride in ourselves and our practices, notably in comparison with others. This mood is clearly visible in this discussion in various comments about Christianity and Christians. First of all, our goal must be suddha-sattva. Secondly while it is extremely important to understand how to be our own best critic, which is admirable and a product of genuine humility that has been demonstrated by our own Acharyas (note bhajans of Bhaktivinode Thakur). In addition it is extremely important to understand how to properly discriminate the adhikara of transcendental Vaisnavas who are properly initiated, so that we can properly offer our respects - is there really any doubt that by accomplishing these two practices, we have already reached the limit of our responsibility with respect to judging others? What to speak of our actual condition, in which we cannot (and do not) even properly offer respect to Vaisnavas, or understand our own position? It seems to me that if we speak of the tamasic practices of others with disdain for their persons, we are 1. wasting our time that could be properly utilized and 2. committing offense. This reminds me of the mood with respect to calling everyone that is not a Vaisnava devotee a "karmi" - inaccurate use of terminology and subtle self-praise. Perhaps it is best that 1. We constantly are begging for the mercy of Mahaprabhu, in much the same way that Orthodox believers pray to Jesus, saying with respect to His body and blood that, "Who has come into this world to save sinners, of whom I am chief", and also in the manner of (especially) Madhai, in his despair at facing Mahaprabhus wrath. Reading this story especially I have always been amazed by the blend of compassion, humor and gravity exhibited by Lord Nitai and by Haridasa Thakur when they would speak of the sins of Jagai and Madhai. They were certainly practical, and frank - however, their comments were not expressed publically (as in an Internet forum), but among intimate, affectionate devotees - they were not expressed in a comparitive fashion as in "us and them" and perhaps most importantly, they were not dismissive, but full of intense determination to deliver these sinners "by hook or by crook" on the order of their Lord, and at ANY risk. How fortunate is every one of US, that we have attained, through no qualification of our own, the merciful glance of our own Gurudeva, that he lives and breathes the determination of Lord Nityananda to deliver each and every one of US from our incalculable sins? Very few of us are in any position to even contemplate bestowing mercy upon others. Why? Because we are not merciful. But we can drag our wretched selves to the feet of those who are. And, we can bring others. Likewise we can encourage others, in the manner recommended by Srila Prabhupada, to continue on their progressive path - in particular, with the (correct) understanding that Jesus Christ is guru-tattva, that the New Testament is Scripture, that one who points the way toward Sri Guru is a form of Sri Guru, regardless of his personal attributes, and that everyone, in every land, should "chant the holy name of the Lord" whether that be in the form of "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy upon me a sinner", or with an apprehension of the maha-mantra mercifully bestowed by the grace of our parampara, concerning which we are very fallen, and have little understanding ourselves or bhav with respect to chanting the holy name. By doing so the ocean of Sri Gurus mercy is expanded, and Help is forthcoming. Please forgive my own offenses and any tendency to criticize - I beg the mercy of all of you and express these thoughts for the sake of my own rectification. This subject (Christianity) is very close to my heart. I recall reading somewhere that it was suggested by Srila Prabhupada that being a devotee should make Christians "better Christians", and also, to one particular young woman devotee who was Christian, that she ought to place Jesus on her altar "between Radha and Krsna". Still, the hallmark of religiosity is association, not Deity worship. If Christians were to reject the loving association of their own, out of fear, aversion and piety, (in order to "become" devotees), then how could they become better Christians?