Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Actually its a typo. It should have been "t is a fact that a man likes a woman who is very expert at rape." - Who was typing this?

You know how there is the "Thanks" function? Can we have a "thumbs down" or a "booo" function please

Its an old use of Victorian or pre-Victorian language. See Titian: Rape of Europa as an example. It should have been replaced just as old use of word gay. The correct word is kidnaping.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]Its an old use of Victorian or pre-Victorian language. See Titian: Rape of Europa as an example. It should have been replaced just as old use of word gay. The correct word is kidnaping.[/quote]
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Thank you. I appreciate your reply. I havent met many who would, or could answer the "rape" question. I know youre thoughtful with your words and that you are very knowledgeable in Vedanta. I was wondering if you could clear up a question I have regarding your reply?
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Srila Prabhupada seems to be connecting rape as aggressive sex. Is your explanation that Srila Prabhupada used "rape" to mean kidnapping? If so, it doesnt seem appropriate in context of the verse. Although aggression may be generally connected to kidnapping, it doesnt seem to fit in contextually with the SB4.25.41 verse and purport. Can you explain how it does?
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Thanks again.[br]
BP[/p]

If you look at the start of the purport you will see that its about one who is a great hero to his wife. And a man is always famous for his aggression is certainly a type of kingly aggressor, who sometimes rides on a white horse and kidnaps beautiful maidens (rape). You should not equate aggression with violence. I do not know many girls who did not dream about a prince (ie kingly order) who will arrive on a white horse to snap them off their feet. After all that what means to be famous, in the historical context. Of course you can say that Paris of Troy is not really famous, but that is not true, he is famous! That is the fame in the material world and girls dream about it.

Danvants,

I am a celibate female and I do not find the quote offensive but the way you Prabus have decided to interpret it. Rape is a crime of violence not of passion, and does not just happen to women but children as well as men.

I dont think any of you understand women at all and you do not speak in the mood of our Guru. Our Guru did not have the intention that men should act like cavemen dragging us off or that a woman would ever enjoy such things. We are suppose to be your daughters, mothers and chaste wives as treated as such.

I am not goods or chattel to be whisked off.

Too many things have been misunderstood already and it has done much harm to KC. Men protect women, not harm them.

<I am a celibate female and I do not find the quote offensive but the way you Prabus have decided to interpret it.>

Good. We agree that men protect women. Do you assume that we here on this forum are all man?

Pranams CCD, I am sorry for assuming you are male. Some things are so easily misunderstood and this is the reason we need living guru to explain these things to those that wish to speculate instead of surrender to a real guru in the Sampradaya.

Jai Radhe!

I always understood this quote in terms of the yin and yang sign, which I believe roughly equates to same basic meaning as purusha and prakrti. The principle is that the masculine energy (action, forceful) dominates the feminine (nuturing, passive) energy. This is their natural relationship, and it has a whole spectrum of variegated expressions on the subtle and gross levels according to the modes.

Use of non standard Indian English often confuses. Prabhupada used to say cent percent for example and call people by first name Mr.Brian or Mr.Stephen - not your comon use in American English. The purport is about a hero not your regular hero, but an Indian English meaning of it; "hero" is used to mean a male protagonist in a story. Just a small observation of the language gaps. I am sure that in this context Prabhupada is coming here from raptio - abduction of women for marriage it is surmised to have been common since anthropological antiquity... Like in Rape of the Sabine Women.

The purport is not about modern women and not about celebate practitioner in bhakti yoga, its about times of king Puranjana...

Your should remember that Prabhupada was not not American and did not subscribe to many concepts of modern interpretations and when we interpret him from our perspective we risk putting our words in his purports, a very very dangerous path may I add.

"Your should remember that Prabhupada was not not American and did not subscribe to many concepts of modern interpretations and when we interpret him from our perspective we risk putting our words in his purports, a very very dangerous path may I add."

Exactly. Why do you defend annotation, then?

First of all annotations exist already. I defend what already exists. Secondly because if there is no proper or academic or balanced annotations, then there is a freedom to provide offensive annotations on the blogs and lectures to such misunderstood statements.

you want to stop offences by annotating the books? Very kind of you.
Proper academic annotations? What exactly is that, but the pride with a boastful name?
I am sure Srila Prabhupada is not very pleased with these clever attempts to tamper his writtings. Write your own comment and publish it. Stand on your own for that, not trying to pass it as SP desire. It is NOT.
Kick the academics in the face!!!

I actually think Prabhupada is displeased MAINLY due to devotees fighting with the authorities who represent him. I find the whole attitude of the argument on the both sides shows
1) Weakness of GBC
2) Ignorance of the mass of devotees (annotations already exist)
3) Seriousness of the split between different views on Prabhupada in ISKCON - one is he being empowered human devotee and other him accepted to be faultless divine avatara (out of which the second one scares me and smells like Gargamuni/Brahmananda reasons for being kicked out of ISKCON)
4) Lack of a desire on the part of general devotees to address the issues of controversial statements
5) General cultish attitude (instead of kicking academics in the face, talk to devotee academics...)
6) Lack of trust to anyone in the position to represent Prabhupada (thus signaling serious problem in itself in terms of preachin

Do you agree that the above is evident from the debate?

"Srila Prabhupada was happy to hear about the preaching to the academics. He told Ambarisa it was important work. He asked to be kept informed on the development of the restaurant and requested that he try to get his books recognized by the academic circles in Boston." (A Transcendental Diary 2-1, Melbourne, April 21st 1976)

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]"Srila Prabhupada was happy to hear about the preaching to the academics. He told Ambarisa it was important work. He asked to be kept informed on the development of the restaurant and requested that he try to get his books recognized by the academic circles in Boston." (A Transcendental Diary 2-1, Melbourne, April 21st 1976)[/quote]
Exactly. But the general mass of devotees still maintain an different cultish attitude - again a misinterpretation of Prabhupadas words.

In the matters of understanding womens psychology Srila Prabhupada often followed the theories of his psychology College Professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, very often quoting him in public. Uruquhart was actually British.

Dear mishra prabhu,i have read your clear and precise explanation of srila Prabhupadas line of thought.WOMAN likes a man who is expert at rape.Your tacit consent is very relevant in my opinion.....i was always surprised as a young man to seeing beautiful young godly women throwing themselves at handsome wicked ,sometimes dirty degenerates whose sole duty was to seek another victim for a quick fling.Another notch on the belt,casual sex victims but the woman were so enthusiastic it personally appalled me.Over the years i realised that the woman have the desire to be cheated while krishna is empowering the cheaters.So both are getting some form of sanction and their needs satisfied.One personal example was a freind,a devotee for seven years who was extremely attractive young woman.At the prime of her life seeking a devotee husband,she however chose a bikie gang member because he showed some interest.She had a child as a result ....have not seen her since.When she was asked why she repliedgood girls always like the bad boys.

Here is proof that women like to be raped.

http://www.angryharry.com/esWomenLoveManga.htm

PRABHUPADA WAS RIGHT! HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING! NEVER DOUBT EVEN A SINGLE WORD PRABHUPADA SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote][cite] Corey.Cananza:[/cite]Here is proof that women like to be raped.

http://www.angryharry.com/esWomenLoveManga.htm

PRABHUPADA WAS RIGHT! HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING! NEVER DOUBT EVEN A SINGLE WORD PRABHUPADA SAYS!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
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I thought this part from above link was interesting:
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Indeed, Theodore Dalrymple, the well-known UK columnist who has worked as a prison doctor for over thirty years - and who is not prone in the slightest to defending the male inmates whom he treats - on the contrary, he usually castigates them for their poor behaviours - had this to say, ...

"In my experience from the prison in which I work, men who are charged with having sexual relations with underage adolescent girls are often reported to the police (and subsequently charged and imprisoned) not because they have had sex with these girls, but because they have stopped having sex with these girls: and hell hath no fury like an adolescent girl scorned."
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It prooves one thing for sure - it is a crazy world. Getting out of this, ASAP, is the only good solution.

Along the thanks that should be a shutup button next to comments. Just a suggestion if you do not mind.

The good girls like the bad guys because they are aggressive,by the challenge of the darkside,the unknown and that they can actually change these bad boys. These good girls are bored in thesquare world, they find very confining,dull and uninteresting.The woman like the taste of something different,they are thrillseekers,i can always pull out- if i dont like it.These sentiments are from my devotee wife of ten years....we have just read the purport and she concurs but would rather use determined instead of aggressive in her vision. the word viyuktam famous for his aggression towards a beautiful woman.She commented you have to be aggressive to keep a beautiful woman.Because every other man will want that beautiful woman.She is used to chocolates and flowers...all the nice things ,she is used to the men being her slave.So when aggressive men conquer her she is attracted by the domination and pure audacity that i am going to be for his enjoyment.

When you walk up to a beautiful woman and you are aggressive with her ,you have actually raped her syhcologically.Such actions she is unused to ,it is foreign to her ,she is used to being the enjoyer not the enjoyed.the cheater rather than the cheated.But the men must keep her as such or she will go away for good.

[quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite][quote][cite] Corey.Cananza:[/cite]Here is proof that women like to be raped.

http://www.angryharry.com/esWomenLoveManga.htm

PRABHUPADA WAS RIGHT! HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING! NEVER DOUBT EVEN A SINGLE WORD PRABHUPADA SAYS!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
=================

I thought this part from above link was interesting:
--------
Indeed, Theodore Dalrymple, the well-known UK columnist who has worked as a prison doctor for over thirty years - and who is not prone in the slightest to defending the male inmates whom he treats - on the contrary, he usually castigates them for their poor behaviours - had this to say, ...

"In my experience from the prison in which I work, men who are charged with having sexual relations with underage adolescent girls are often reported to the police (and subsequently charged and imprisoned) not because they have had sex with these girls, but because they have stopped having sex with these girls: and hell hath no fury like an adolescent girl scorned."
---------

It prooves one thing for sure - it is a crazy world. Getting out of this, ASAP, is the only good solution.[/quote]

It is also consistent with Srila Prabhupadas instruction that a girl naturally becomes attached to the man who takes her virginity. So then she becomes very upset when he leaves her.

Although Srila Prabhupada made this statement about the animal nature of men and women in the material world, he never intended that his male followers should delve into, or act to become playthings of women on this low, lusty level. Nor did he want his male followers to consider their god-sisters or even women in general on this level. Such behavior is degrading to the devotee men and disrespectful to the ladies. If we consider ourselves Srila Prabhupadas followers, men are his sons and ladies are his daughters. And everyone belongs to Lord Krishna, Who is the only enjoyer. Srila Prabhupada is very merciful to all women; caring for, attracting us and engaging us by his divine potency. I remember in New Dwaraka, in 1972, that tears came to his eyes during a lecture he gave about women not being protected. He wanted us to be happy with a good devotee husband, home devoted to Sri Guru and Lord Krishna, and children conceived in the controlled Vedic fashion, and we did not know this was how to be happy so we were trying all kinds of unsuccessful things and suffering badly. Then, above that happiness, there is transcendental happiness from doing devotional service, and we all have wonderful experience of this; thanks only to Srila Prabhupada. The statement that a woman likes to be expertly raped makes it clear that His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada is not using the word rape to indicate violent, vicious, torturous rape with ensuing emotional trauma that is currently understood as rape, nor even the forced, but badly-handled job of the common male animal, but something else we probably should not concern ourselves with trying to understand. Hare Krishna.
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

I dont think going up to a beautiful woman and being aggressive, as above stated, will work in most parts of the world. Nowadays many women carry mace. They also will call the police, on the slightest provocation - anything that smells of harassment, or stalking. The law is on their side. You really have to be very careful in your dealings with women these days.

One relationship guru, named Doc Love, at www.askmen.com teaches that modern women today (excluding feminists or professional daters) are generally attracted to strong men who are "a mystery and a challenge, self-controlled, and confident". He found over many decades of interviewing women, that these are the qualities and traits they seek out most in men.

According to his findings, women generally do not like to be pushed or hassled. They may like strong, aggressive men if it is on their terms, and they are always changing their minds.

A man should always consider what a womans interest level is in him. Most men think it is very high, when in fact it is usually very low, if non-existent.

He talks about the "reality factor" - see reality for what it really is, and not for what you think it is.

I think the vast majority of women will take offense at this statement that Srila Prabhupada has made. I often question if it is in fact true in the majority of circumstances in todays modern society.

At the same time, many examples can be found that seem to validate the statement. As an example, at the book stores and supermarkets, entire aisles are devoted to Romance-type novels dealing with powerful men, who aggressively sweep women off their feet, and take them. Mostly women buy these types of fantasy books, so it makes you wonder.

Sometimes what women will admit to intellectually may be far different from what is in their hearts.

This is a very sensitive subject. We should be very careful in our dealings with women, before we proclaim that the vast majority of women are desirous of rape.

Male nature is to dominate, female nature is to be dominated. This has to do with eternal principles, no use arguing with that.

Another thing may be evaluation, to which degree a certain person carries female or male principle. Obviously, men are not 100% made of male principle, and women are not 100% made of female principle. But I guess it could be expected, that most women will hold more of female principle, and that most men will hold more of male principle. So, naturally, most men would feel better in dominating role, and most women would feel better in dominated role.

I mean, there is still difference between male and female, is it. It is not that both genders became one without any distinction.

In any way, I dont think Srila Prabhupada is attempting to explain psychology of women. More Id say, he is explaining eternal principles. Like in this example:
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The living entity is explained as the superior prakrti. Prakrti is always under control, whether inferior or superior. Prakrti is female, and she is controlled by the Lord just as the activities of a wife are controlled by the husband. Prakrti is always subordinate, predominated by the Lord, who is the predominator. The living entities and material nature are both predominated, controlled by the Supreme Lord.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bg Introduction
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Srila Prabhupada says here, that "activities of a wife are controlled by the husband". Clearly, this statement hardly applies to many modern man, and possibly it doesnt apply well to any man in history of material world (butter & fire thing....). Still, it is not the point, what are personal habbits of conditioned souls. The point is, that "Prakrti is always subordinate, predominated by the Lord, who is the predominator."

Srila Prabhupada was teaching Krsna Consciousness. His mentioning of lower principles was to give us familiar example. And it should be taken as such, otherwise we miss the point, and get entangled in eternally messy psychology of conditioned souls.

Perhaps what Srila Prabhupada is stating is that many women like men who sexually strong and powerful. Of course I suggested this before at one of the militant-feminist websites, and I was labeled a Maroon.

Lost in translation I thought, and looking at my Bhagavatam set (newest edition of the small blue set) the word is changed to aggressive.

Obviously a woman cannot like rape, otherwise it would no longer be rape. It is a minor mistranslation.

i would tend to agree most with the devotees observation that our minds may say something and our hearts another.
a lady may intellectually not want to enjoy with a base man who is aggressive - however at a weak moment, she may desire him...and later regret it.

just as we at times may succumb to maya - even though we know Krishna is the only refuge.

so if SP says women like to be raped - he is talking of those who are in the conditioned state of maya. Those who are in the soul platform have nothing to complain of.

Matter has given us so many faults. Both men and women. Men like to enjoy numerous women - but this is a conditioned state. A more advanced soul wants to enjoy neither one or many women - he wants to serve all.