Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

BG 18-36
"That which in the beginning may be just like poison but at the end is just like nectar and which awakens one to self-realization is said to be happiness in the mode of goodness."

Dificult things turn easy at the end and the other way around. So, expect drawbacks from easier indirect preaching (like the books taken from a free stand in the US and stamped BS a few days ago, see http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/05-08/news2017.htm ) and wonderful results from direct "troublesome" "old style" outreach.

mmm interesting, SPs instruction was not to distribute his books for free and to always get a donation...we can see the results of not following this instruction...I remember myself going out with devotees in the early 80s when free book distribution was in full swing - this was in the days when oil paintings etc. were sold and some of the money was used to buy books and then the books were given out...I remember at the end of the day the devotees having to go through all the rubbish bins to pick out the trashed books!!

Trashing happens also where normal b.d. is underway. This is Kali yuga after all.

SP was not against sponsored b.d. - Sastra Dana wouldnt happen otherwise.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Trashing happens also where normal b.d. is underway. This is Kali yuga after all.

SP was not against sponsored b.d. - Sastra Dana wouldnt happen otherwise.[/quote]

It is psychological: people who pay for it, they are unlikely to trash. Also depends on the strength of the argument that they bought it. If it is some feeble "donation for needy" or it was sold with sound arguments that made them interested or at least curious.

Shastra dana is nice in India, because they already respect and know shastra. In the western world it is a disaster.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Trashing happens also where normal b.d. is underway. This is Kali yuga after all. SP was not against sponsored b.d. - Sastra Dana wouldnt happen otherwise.[/quote]
Srila Prabhupada was against giving out books for free...sponsorship is one thing and may work in India...giving out books for free on the street is another and is against SPs instructions...I know there is a direct quote about this from vedabase, anyone?

and what about giving out books for free as PDF???

The people has to find us and click to download, so there is already some interest on their part.
Experience tells us that a spiritual mature person will ask for "hardware" like real books, etc.
People likes to contribute to what they feel connected and nothing replaces a book, after all.

mishra: I dont agree about disaster. We must speak about two different things.

rasa108: Sastra Dana is not giving out books for free on the street. Check out sastradana.com

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]rasa108: Sastra Dana is not giving out books for free on the street. Check out sastradana.com[/quote]
Not neccessary as I am aware of Sastra Dana...if you read my statement carefully, I have separated the two....read again Veda.

the giving books out for free in a stand thing is impersonal, so it has drawbacks.

Purely Indirect preaching always sucks - as in it sucks your will to live. The trick is to do direct preaching, and turn the rest of your life into indirect preaching. What do you do when youre not preaching? Indirect preaching.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]mishra: I dont agree about disaster. We must speak about two different things.[/quote]

VEDA: Select your choice word, but I am sure it will not be "success" :(

Vyasadevs frustration was due to the fact that his preaching actually encouraged sense gratification in the guise of religion.

What other types of current preaching would fit this description?

Mishra, if success is making devotees than it is successful. Contact SD managers for names.

Bookstores are also impersonal yet many devotees found the books there.

The idea is to have all kinds of preaching going on simultaneously and trying to find new ones:

"We should always be eager to find out such nice ways to spread this Movement. This will automatically bring joy to the devotees as well as to the nondevotees." (SP letter to Jagadisa - Bombay 17 November, 1970)

VEDA:
In the ultimate analysis, SP books are powerful in themselves, whatever the means of distribution.
The subject of this question is another. If indirect preaching will cause frustration, and that you can already see in the defaced books episode.

I understand it only as an excess, not a rule. When the bookstands are properly placed in stores so they can be watched, the chance that this happens is rather small.

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite]and what about giving out books for free as PDF???[/quote]

I wonder if it is offensive to see the .pdf file in the recycle bin on the computer?

:)

I think it has a lot to do with intention.

I do remember once complaining about devotees handing out boxes of sponsored books for free. Then the devotee who was doing it showed me a quotation from Srila Prabhupada that permitted it. It satisfied me enough at the time but I cant remember exactly what quote that was. If anyone has the time to search the Vedabase Id be interested.

Indirect preaching is something Ive been wondering about quite a bit, because I am concerned about how I talk to my parents.

In everyday situations with non-devotees, I think it is easy to bring in indirect arguments for Krishna consciousness. Especially karma and reincarnation provide a number of avenues to discuss things that are indirectly related to Krishna consciousness.

On the other hand, this seems like cheating. Because becoming aware of karma and reincarnation (in some more or less direct manner, one neednt even use the words "karma" and "reincarnation") may make a person see the drawbacks of "life as it is usually lived" and may make the person want to change their ways.

But if the person is not given the whole teaching of Krishna consciousness, then in my experience, merely becoming aware of karma and reincarnation tends to be frustrating, and the person may become cynical and depressed.

Such indirect preaching is then like becoming aware of the problem, desiring to do something about it, but having no idea what the solution is, and therefore concluding there is no solution to the problem at all - and then becoming (even more) frustrated with life, thinking that it is meaningless, futile, chaotic.

It is interesting that no particular examples (I guess other than Sastra Dana) of indirect preaching are being examined.

[quote][cite] NityanandaChandra:[/cite]It is interesting that no particular examples (I guess other than Sastra Dana) of indirect preaching are being examined.[/quote]

Another example of indirect preaching in the Srimad Bhagavatam is Vyasadevs compilation of the Vedanta-sutra, Mahabharata and Puranas, with the point being that they do not directly glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead and encourage sense gratification or material gains in the disguise of religion.

I have a question: Ive often seen congregation members encouraged to donate to building a new temple using the many verses stating, for example, Whoever helps build a temple of Vishnu will save eight generations of forefathers from hell. Would you say this qualifies as encouraging material gains? To my mind it is certainly service in the mode opf passion at best, and as we know service mixed with the modes does not ensure the final goal is reached.

Building the temple, aside material results, also brings spiritual result of going to Vaikuntha. Therere several such verses in HBV 20.

Being one of the devotees who sold oil paintings and then distributed free books , it is indeed interesting how others perceive what was the unique strategy of that time, place and circumstances.We were considered at the time,in Australia and New Zealand a fringe cult.We were attacked by police regularly,especially when selling books outside malls and airports.This led to devotees men and women alike being hunted aggressively,sometimes having to leave their temples and families under heavy assaults from the demoniac police.There was a strong christian perception that we were indeed in league with the devil himself,as a result they joined in to instigate an extensive crackdown on our ISKCON society.As a society we were indeed poor with little or no support from the indian community.We had rented buildings as temples which were a struggle to keep open because we had little financial support,many of our group lacking expertise dealing with the responsibilities necessary to pay thousands of dollars a week for leases.Added to the environment at the time where the moonies,rajanesh followers,a very prevalent drug culture and scores of hippy cults were invogue ,no doubt the conservative society of the late seventies attempted to save their children from these alien influences.At least that was how we werelumped in with.

Being lumped in with these cults,meant that a change in strategy was seen to be necessary.It was decided that since book distribution was fiercely resented by the authorities of the day, we should sell paraphenalia and give out books for free.Not ideal but this proved to be a huge success for the next 5 or 6 years at least.We no longer were seen as taking from their society like leeches,but as saintly persons working hard like them....and then giving out free meals,cleaning up young kids on drugs, definitely contributing while following strict religious principles..We were then able through krishnas mercy to distribute thousands of quality books a week especially during school holidays.Especially after the Christmas holiday times,i remember giving out literally thousands of books freely myself.Usually in a period of several days to a week to the stunned aussie rugby league followers,coming home from a game being inundated by srila Prabhupadas books.As a result the whole australian community along with new Zealands ,become well disposed towards us .Especially the working class people saw us everyday as genuine hard working battlers,intent on good.Eventually with the large temple incomes that came from such dedicated devotees being convinced of the authenticity of ISKCON,and srila Prabhupadas divine mission we become further empowered.

There is an explanation of the acaryas of the anyavilasita sunyam verse. The difference between the words sunnyam and apavritam is stressed, since there is no requirement of karma and jnana to be completely wiped out (sunyam) in order to practice bhakti, they have to remain supportive to bhakti.

What comes to mind is Bhakta Sai... when Siddhaswarup was heavily criticized by other (competing) leaders for letting devotees live outside of the temple, teaching yoga etc., Prabhupada was not influenced by them. I am sure they have driven him out of ISKCON, there is no doubt about it, question is why do ISKCON devotees these days do exactly the same things - teach yoga, have a bit of hair and live outside of the temple? (btw Urmila Mataji have visited Siddhasvarupas temples and reported a few years back that they are expanding and doing a lot of preaching in their zone of preaching).

So being indirect or direct, the key is enthusiasm (lobha) for Krishna. Vyasa lost this lobha and by reading Bhagavatam now we can gain this lobha or laulyam. The externals of preaching or tools are not critical really, as long as you do it to give out the holy names and not for the reasons of moksa, artha, dharma or kama.

Eventually we attempted a radical corporate leaflet,which was placed into there news papers,nation wide which was our attempt to improved societys wrongly conceived perceptions of us. When the hundreds of thousands of news papers went out ,the impact was truly amazing in its success.We were inundated for several months by genuine people eager to ask about our unique culture and lifestyle.So this form of indirect preaching was indeed very successful.In-fact personally i would say it single handedly changed our societys status in the publics veiw permanently.Now we bath in a very favourable and generous light ,as a direct result of this hugely successful corporate borrowed marketing tool.As srila Prabhupada would say you can tell a preaching strategy by the fruit it bears.