Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

I am far more concerned about the sorry state of the Vedic Planetarium project that is supposed to be INSIDE that building. This is like the locomotive where 99% of the steam goes into the whistle...

You can soup it up later, but you will not be taking down all the fake paladian columns and italian domes, will you?

I would prefer a Vedic style since we I am tired of seeing Vatican style cathedrals. For those who didnt see it i post the video below.

[youtube]gTYHpc20e6E[/youtube]

I actually also prefer more traditional style, with possibly large size domes, not western style with four small size domes in indian style glued onto it.

anyone has the old design??? the one previous to this one.

[img]http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8554/r2vz5.jpg[/img][/br]
[img]http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7659/1yo5.jpg[/img][/br]
[img]http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8538/t7uw4.jpg[/img][/br]

Yes, that was the design Harikesha promoted. Temple was supposed be built from a special type of locally made brick. I always liked that design.

2008 design by Bhavananda (Artistic director ISKCON Mayapur), Why blue?
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Eyelev2008.png[/img]

I like the old design better.

the new one is blue because...krishna is blue?

looks like Vatican... and bishops.
...nice match

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]looks like Vatican... and bishops.
...nice match[/quote]
Do you men the "men in black":-)?

no, I mean men in white (and some in orange) :)

Hari sauri Prabhu is all for the cathedral and has his arguments articulated here:
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6059

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]looks like Vatican... and bishops.
...nice match[/quote]

the same silk underwear, fake renunciation, and taste for altar boys?

Alas, we are more gullible than Catholics...

[quote][cite] diyourself:[/cite]Hari sauri Prabhu is all for the cathedral and has his arguments articulated here:
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6059[/quote]
He is all for his team. If you look at Bhavanandas design of 1986 it has almost the same dome. He just loves it, it drew Surabhi nuts.

we will pass to history as the nutty guys that allowed a confessed homosexual pedophile molester to choose the grand project of the institution. He is OK, with his usual themes, we are to blame for allowing.

[quote][cite] diyourself:[/cite]we will pass to history as the nutty guys that allowed a confessed homosexual pedophile molester to choose the grand project of the institution. He is OK, with his usual themes, we are to blame for allowing.[/quote]

Wow. I was wondering if we were talking about the same Bhavananda, trying to convince myself that maybe I was confused. Why do we do this to ourselves?

[quote][cite] Pandu das:[/cite][quote][cite] diyourself:[/cite]we will pass to history as the nutty guys that allowed a confessed homosexual pedophile molester to choose the grand project of the institution. He is OK, with his usual themes, we are to blame for allowing.[/quote]

Wow. I was wondering if we were talking about the same Bhavananda, trying to convince myself that maybe I was confused. Why do we do this to ourselves?[/quote]

Its a complex political situation, since the [i]only[/i] donor is intimately connected to him and Bhavanandas team, incl (Sadbhuj and Satadanya (the same one) are the only people who can deal on the legal level in WB. So if you say no to him, you say no to any temple... hm....so the other guy Abhiram had to pull out...

[i]His empire[/i] from Mayapurs uc0u346 ru299 Vyu257 sa-pu363 ju257 1981 entry:
[quote]
[/quote]

[Be one spiritually inclined or inclined towards pu257 pa ([i]sin[/i]) and aparu257 dha ([i]offense[/i]), it pays to live in u346 ru299 dhama Mayapur....

The creation of a borderless, spiritual [b]empire[/b] whose center is the capital city of u346 ru299 dhama Mayapur, whose source of preaching strength is that '93one wonderful temple,'94 your Vedic Planetarium,'94 providing all...
[quote][/quote]

Jayapatu257 ka Swami / Bhavu257 nanda Goswami ([i]now Ex swami[/i])/ u346 atadhanya Swami ([i]now Ex swami[/i])/ Nitu257 icand du257 sa ([i]now ex SwamI[/i]) brahmacari / u256 diguru du257 sa brahmacari / Anantaru363 pa du257 sa brahmacari / Anakadundubhi du257 sa brahmacari / Antaryu257 mi Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a du257 sa brahmacari / Advaita du257 sa brahmacari / Ambaru299 u7779 a du257 sa adhiku257 ru299 ([i]still Adhikrari[/i])/ Bhu257 nu du257 sa ([i]Now swami[/i])brahmacari ...

[i]Italics are mine[/i]

[quote][cite] Pandu das:[/cite][quote][cite] diyourself:[/cite]we will pass to history as the nutty guys that allowed a confessed homosexual pedophile molester to choose the grand project of the institution. He is OK, with his usual themes, we are to blame for allowing.[/quote]

Wow. I was wondering if we were talking about the same Bhavananda, trying to convince myself that maybe I was confused. Why do we do this to ourselves?[/quote]

Why? because we are more gullible than Catholics and totally brainwashed into quiet obedience or at least resignation.

That very same Bhavs (who only a few short years ago was running a male escort service from his ISKCON provided apartment in Australia) is now giving regular Bhagavatam classes in Sridhama Mayapur. On top of that, apparently his artistic abilities are so great he is a very well paid consultant to the Mayapur ISKCON.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]
Its a complex political situation, since the [i]only[/i] donor is intimately connected to him and Bhavanandas team, incl (Sadbhuj and Satadanya (the same one) are the only people who can deal on the legal level in WB. So if you say no to him, you say no to any temple... hm....so the other guy Abhiram had to pull out...[/quote]

Sounds like a simple matter of trading our integrity for money, sort of like prostitution. How am I supposed to accept that spiritual life is like this? No wonder preaching has become so difficult.

maybe another petition should be started...

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite]maybe another petition should be started...[/quote]
Only if Abhiram will sign it first... Definitely not only me but majority of devotees will be concerned with both design and design directror and will sign it. However....

I thought that http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6059 (article by Prabhupada Kripa Swami AKA Hari Sauri) starts with the quotes from the petition already submitted. But by all means, modern architecture becomes success by involvement.

yes i read that long post already. The temple still looks boring to me. Can anyone with good writing skills start the petition?

Dear GBC,

We know that Srila Prabhupada made some brief remarks on one or two occasions about the TVP looking like the US Capitol. But we also know that on many occasions he was shown and approved designs of an Indian nature. We feel it is therefore necessary for the movement'92s leadership to carefully consider which of the designs that Srila Prabhupada spoke about best fulfills his overall desires for the project. We have some concerns that a Western design for the TVP and we wish to be assured that the project will be designed in such a way as to take into account the traditional appearance of the dhama and environmental factors.

Anything to add?

I wonder if a made up account http://www.dandavats.com/?page_id=1638&stats_author=mike108
is the only positive feedback, or is it one of the team members, like Hari Sauri himself?

mike108 sounds pretty fake to me...

and btw, why is there a pyramid in front of the temple?

it looks so masonic.

Capitol and the whole D.C. area - a Masonic design:

http://masonictv.com/pages/catalog.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Architecture-Our-Nations-Capital/dp/0060195371

The Great Pyramid and the Freemasons, by Robert Bauval

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/robertbauval.html

Most religious organizations are controlled by secret societies, of which Feemasonry is very prominent. Some, like the Mormon creed and organization, were designed and executed by Freemasons from the very start. I am quite sure they also control Iskcon. I talked to some experts and they see tell tale signs of it. I would not be surprised if this design contained masonic elements, not just the most obvious (and completely out of place!) pyramid.

Did you know that George Washington adorned in masonic attire, laid the cornerstone on 1793 for .... the building of the United States Capitol... The corner stone is located near the Old Supreme Court It is NOT known if that is the original cornerstone, but it was engraved with a masonic symbol and commissioned in 1893...

Re the above video music:

Subject: Keno Hare Krsna Nam
------------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krishna Maharaja,

Dandavat Pranams. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

I wholeheartedly aggre with Bhakti Vikash Swamis assessment of the song.

I have never found it in any my Bengali songbooks published by various Gaudiya Mathas. I collect Bengali songbooks and I cant find that song anywehre. It was originally introduced to ISKCON by Riksaraja das and he did a good rendition of it.

The words and imagery, and even the raga, is totally in line with Baul music.
I have never heard a Baul song that wasnt in Bhairabi ragini. My guess is that it might have been written by Fakir Lalan Shah (I have recorded one of his songs but not released it), Since no name is given in the song, there is no way to say for sure.

Yours in service,

Vaiyasaki Das...

Fascinating, not only the appearance is Baul-ish, (ie a Yavana dress) but even the music is by the same sahajiyas sect, who got nothing good said about them, except that they could be quite good friends with the artistic director:), I mean orientation-wise. Weird combination, is that what we are trying to say by this project? ccd

I thought that Keno Hare Krsna Nam was a song Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote while preaching to the Baul people?

Dasharath Suta published it in MSVA songbook, some devotees used to sing it, some claim Bhaktivinoda wrote it (Suhotra said it for example), but there is no evidences to it in any publications... (the difference of Vaishnava songs and sahjiya songs, is that Vaishnava put sings his work or puts the singature in the last verse) I would say that Bhaktivinoda would have never said:"je desete maner manus asa jaoya nai" (see:http://www.geocities.com/vedicger108/Lyrics/kenoharekrsnanam.html)

Veda - where did you get that text by Vyasaki?

ccd: from PAMHO

On Bauls and other apasampradayas: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/library/Apasamp.zip

http://www.dandavats.com/?page_id=1638&stats_author=Tim

On the one comment on dandavats since I knew one Tim, I wrote to him and he wrote back:

prabhu,

yes that was me! I had a chat with your wife the last festival about the new
design...when I saw the new design at first I thought it a little gaudy, as
I was telling her, but over time it became more acceptable to my vision,
just that I wouldnt bother to argue about it too much if thats what the
authorized committee approve...

yes the blue is a bit startling, and I see what you mean when you mention
Las Vegas. I wonder how they are planning to achieve that colour. With
paint?!

I wrote back:
> Ceramics, but what is the point? They have like 5 different styles and 10
> different colours. Its an architectural disaster, you can actually show it
> to Robert to get his comments, I am sure he will completely agree with me.
>
so thats his last words:

whoops, I probably wont comment in Dandavats again if Im not exactly sure
what theyre doing. I was just assuming they do know what theyre doing
(after initially being surprised by the design), but history has shown
people make mistakes...

Please see the attached full letter by Tattva-vita dasa (ACBSP) requesting a vote on the Mayapur Temple Design. In summary, you voting options are:

==================
Please answer this email or reply to >tattvavit.acbsp@pamho.net if you wish to vote. You can use this ballot:

1) I approve of the present design.

2) I disapprove of the present design, but I will go along with.

3) I disapprove of the present design, but I am willing to keep the
same basic structure, with some substantial improvements that minimize
the controversial features.

4) I disapprove of the present design, and I am only in favor of a
change to a better design, which will not delay the project more than
a year or so.

5) I disapprove of the present design, and I am only in favor of a
change to a better, Indian design, which will not delay the project
more than a year or so.

6) I disapprove of the present design and prefer that nothing be built
in the Lotus Park now and that ISKCON wait until a better design is
made and/or better land is available and/or some other condition is
met.

--Your servants,
Tattvavit Dasa and Janaki Rama Dasa

Full letter attached.

This attachment was also included in Tattva-vitas original letter. It is a compilation of Prabhupadas qoutes on the subject.

Hare Krishna. Say the vote will be 90% disapprove, 10% approve;

So the result will be - approved :-)

Now, this is some serious fun:

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6315

http://www.dandavats.com/wp-content/uploads/tvp.doc

Sivarama Swami says:
----------------------
Imagine that Srila Prabhup'e4da is again physically present and that he'92s sitting in his room in M'e4y'e4pura Dh'e4ma receiving a report .....
A delegation representing devotees who do not like the plan of the TVP has been sent to Srila Prabhup'e4da with a request to delay construction ....
....he would squash the proposal and encourage Ambarisa Prabhu'92s team to get the job done as soon as possible.

In short, the one reason not to change the design of the TVP is that Srila Prabhup'e4da wouldn'92t.
------------------------

Wow, this is some serious science fiction. If it wasnt Sivarama Swami, id say what is this fool talking about! But of course, it is Sivarama Swami, and obviously he knows exactly what Srila Prabhupada would say and do if he was here today, observing pathetic state of global ISKCON.

What a nonsense speculation!

But otherwise, nice description of ISKCON nonexistence, by Sivarama Swami:
---------
For having failed our youth we are paying settlement fees of over $10,000,000; outside of India book distribution continues to wane; ISKCON'92s leadership is struggling to retain its credibility after the regular falldown of GBC'92s, gurus, and sanny'e4s'e9s; other Gau'f2'e9ya organizations have ended ISKCON'92s monopoly on preaching Lord Caitanya'92s message'97preaching that is now anemic at best; daily harin'e4ma parties are practically a thing of the past; ISKCON'92s central resources are so meager that it cannot even finance a secretariat for the GBC; and, of course, after more than 30 years of planning (at a cost of $15,000,000) the Temple of Vedic Planetarium is still nowhere in sight.
----------

Since they are mostly after bricks, GBC supports the current design because it is the one with best chance of completion right now - again they are chosing preyas over sreyas: short term gratification over long term benefit. Never mind that there is NOTHING to put in that temple as far as the Vedic Planetarium is concerned. Never mind the flaws and drawbacks of the proposed design.

The very reason for our sorry state as a movement today is the preyas-mentality of our leaders. Lets lie, cheat, and steal to serve Srila Prabhupadas mission...yukta vairagya prabhu! Lets have another big temple with very little substance to fill it. Regular devotees struggle to keep local centers open in the West, but in India we will make a great show... this is our dream factory, our ISKCONollywood.

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6367 did not appear on the front page. I wonder why? I just do not understand how GBC operate in this regard.

so they are changing it or what? these suggestions give some hope at least.

I do not think that yourman Bhavananda will be so easily swayed, not unless he is forced into it. He worked hard to get rid of Surabha with his Indian designs, so it is hard to expect that he will just follow a bunch of Indian managers. If anything it will go more into gay/Andy Warhol style with a kitschy mix of what he say Prabhupada wanted with what Bhavananda really likes.

so what is really going on. i have seen more articles on the subject here
Changing the Design of the TVP: Reply to Ambarisa
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6376

Reply to point one of nine reasons to change the TOVP
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6364

TVP'96A Personal Reflection
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=6345

can someone give a summary?

Ambarish bothered to reply and HS (aka Prabhupadakripa SwamI) was clearly implicated in some lies, as nobody seems to recall that Prabhupada actually indicated that this dome is to be build, HS suggested that even Pustakrsna confirms it but Pustakrishna (exSwami too) has indicated that he never heard Prabhupada suggesting this dome or this design even he himself discussed the interiors of the temple with Prabhupada when in Washington, and Yadubara as well confirmed that Prabhupada never told him he want this exact design of the dome.

Nobody on GBC list wants to bother to even suggesting change of the Bhavanandas design, so it will roll as it is and unless there is a word from Government of Bengal, by November construction will be underway, that is if Ambarish will still have some money left... ys

Actually, Pustakrishna seems to believe, that Srila Prabhupada told to Ambarish that temple should be like capitol.

So, nobody knows who was told so. I guess when Ambarish finally reveals, that Srila Prabhupada never told him to build Capitol style, there will be a real mess. I hope it will not be too late then.

Future of this design is not too bright. Even if they build it, it will look strange to generations who will come after. In future, there will be really no good explanation for reasons behind capitol design. This TVP may as well become embarrassment for future ISKCON.

<Future of this design is not too bright. Even if they build it, it will look strange to generations who will come after. In future, there will be really no good explanation for reasons behind capitol design. This TVP may as well become embarrassment for future ISKCON.>
It is more likely to become kind of a legend - this is the design that Prabhupada wanted to build, because great Bhavananda and great Hari Sauri said so.

anyway we can destroy it and build a new one after they die cant we?

You can take down the domes, but you can not rebuild the reputation that ISKCON will get after that...

well, it is not that iskcon has such great reputation nowadays.

It amazes me how such important decisions (like the form of perhaps THE most significant temple in our movement) are based on what amounts to zero rationality - supposedly (because there is no hard record) Prabhupada made comments that this temple should have a dome, and everything else is irrelevant... This is like something from a B-rated movie about misguided followers of some ancient cult.

I suggest whoever wants to complain they should write re: ISKCON, Mayapur to :

Development &amp; Planning Section

Office of the District Magistrate &amp; Collector

Krishnanagar, Nadia, West Bengal

fax: +91 - 03472 - 251 001

(copy to nadia@wb.nic.in)

---
They can say what they think about building thischurch. They know well name of Charles Bacis and S. Fedoroff (Bhavs and Satadanya) of Mayapur Tourism Development Pvt who applied for it.

Hare Krishna, Jay Gauranga...Jai Radhey

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada the saviour of the world...

(God only knows what I would be doing if Prabhupada did not come to the west, no one can claim elevation or previous life association with
great personalities..to do so is to minimise Prabhupada..In his letters Prabhupada said that a disciple must appear before his guru humble.
As we all sit before Prabhupada let us consider our fallen position and that it was only the causeless mercy of Prabhupada that any of us
even know the name Krishna..let alone begin to understand the intimate pastimes)

PAMHO.

Firstly all the nectar and instructions are at http://prabhupadabooks.com (all his letters, morning walks everything..pure nectar)
Dont let the so called chosen ones instruct you, we have seen what they are capable of, verify it for yourself...step up and read...just click and read.

In one of the poorest areas of India (materially) but one of the most richest areas spiritually and culturally Gauranga Mahaprabhu appeared. It is no accident that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared in the Bengali culture.

Prabhupada makes many excellent comments about Bengali Culture, Vedic Culture and displaying the Vedic Culture to the whole world here http://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?g=162461

"Prabhupuc0u257 da: ...ago Bengali culture was very much adored all over India. Even one big politician, Gandhis guru, Goke, Gokule, he remarked, "What Bengal thinks today, other provinces will think tomorrow." He said like that. And actually all big, big movements started from Bengal. The national movement also was started from Bengal. Whatever we may criticize Vivekananda, when... Hes a Bengali. He went first for preaching Indian religion. Rabindranath Tagore, hes a Bengali. All big, big..."

Just type in Planetarium in the search box and see all of Prabhupadas quotes:

Prabhupu257 da: No "Understanding" simply Vedic "Temple of Vedic Planetarium," Thats all. We shall show the Vedic conception of planetary system within this material world and above the material world. [break] We are going to exhibit the Vedic culture throughout the whole world, and theyll come here.

So if we are going to Exhibit Vedic Culture why should it look like Captiol hill? Domes and Columns? A Vatican Look? this is so Bogus! and the text that reveals who is bogus "2008 design by Bhavananda (Artistic director ISKCON Mayapur)" Are you kidding me? we are really entertaining anything that this fallen soul does and says? He still hasnt accounted for not one of his crimes. This alone should tell us all why Iskcon once a sharp sword in the hand of Prabhupada has become a blunt instrument in the hands of fools and the corrupt.

Want to know what Prabhupadas thought about the most? and focused on and what his priorities were and what he liked? Just read his letters they are online at http://prabhupadabooks.com and stop letting people like Bhavananda and Hauri Sauri hood wink you and make you believe that they know what Prabhupada said (These people just want to make you think that because they had some close association with Prabhupada that they are elevated and are therefore in a position to instruct everyone on everything that Prabhupada said. But they refer to what can never be verified and they never refer to Prabhupadas actual verifiable comments. The only reason these people had association with Srila Prabhupada was due to his causeless mercy and they had choice as individuals..to follow sincerely and neither of them did).

What I hate about the video is the obvious lean towards western architecture, the motor freeway next to it (where did all the people and the villages go?) those horrid modern boats or should I say ocean liners...somehow think those may be a little big for that part of the Ganga. Looks like some western palace of enjoyment not like a Vedic city or cultural centre for spiritual enlightenment.

The History of Gauranga Mahaprabhu and the Gaudia Vaisnavas is one of humilty, deep philosohpy and above all the contemplation and focus on the initimate pastimes of Radha and Krishna. Agreed, Prabhupada did want to present additional aspects of vedic culture. So its very obvious it should have a Vedic theme and where do Pyramids fit into the Vedic scene. Even Baktha Jo the plumber could tell you that!

At the end of the day ask yourself what brought you to Iskcon? Buildings? or Prabhupada, dieties, philosophy, purity, honesty, prasadam. Sure a great exhibition of the Vedic Planetary systems as Prabhupada suggested is great but he never suggested a Disney Style operation, it is all so unbecoming of the history of the Gaudia Vaisnavas and losing focus on the primary goals.

Srila Prabhupada gave full instruction on what will draw you in deeper and deeper into the pastimes of our Lordships and we all know that it isnt big buildings.