Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

...i just watched the 3D presentation,it looks fantastic!
a dome is a dome is a dome,dont see any connection with the US capitol.

Ambarish Prabhu has the lakshmi and he will do it as he pleases with whom he pleases. That is the vaishya clear message. Nothing else to discuss.

It is sad to see, how Ambarisa describes the condition of ISKCON. No people, small teams, no money, no support from government..... All ISKCON can do is small temple, smaller than other groups, previous design is out of reach .... and it may not get any better soon. The only way that ISKCON can leave some impression is by being different from anything else seen there. He even says that his team will not work on any other project. Also he mentions all the money that was "thrown away" for unrealistic designs and so on... He seems quite negative towards abilities of ISKCON, and he seems to say "its now or never" and "better something than nothing".

I prefer that they wait with Temple of Vedic Planetarium, untill something seriously impressive can be done. Untill then, they can build any temples they want, no problem, even in the midst of Mayapur park if they like. This temple could be called TTVP-UWCBBO (temporary temple of vedic planetarium - until we can build a better one)

curiously when preaching was emphasized there was no money problem.
since money is center we are paupers.
simple priority problem vaishyas can,t solve because of natural spiritual shortsightedness

Ambarish have effectively bought the GBC vote!

One needs to see what is wanted and what is practicable. It is not practicable to change the mind of the design team that much. Hari Sauri is sannyasa disciple of Bhavananda, Sadbhuja is disciple of Bhavananda and his former personal servant, Sucih who launched his (rather misleading) reasons to keep the design is a disciple of Bhavananda, wife of Ambarish is disciple of Bhavananda, Ambarish is his friend and clearly not planning to upset his former boss. They will keep the design. So none of the above fits, you need to change the team if you want to have anything other, then Bhavanandas gay coloured cake.

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]curiously when preaching was emphasized there was no money problem.
since money is center we are paupers.
simple priority problem vaishyas can,t solve because of natural spiritual shortsightedness[/quote]

[p]A few weeks ago I stumbled across the judges decision on an appeal of of the criminal trial of Kirtanananda, Tapah punja, and Sundarakara; and was sadly amused to see the judges understanding of what "sankirtan" was:[/p]

[quote][b]"In the Krishna religion, soliciting donations, or "sankirtan," is a ritual."[/b][/quote]

[url]http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/998/998.F2d.1247.91-5870.91-5430.91-5350.html[/url]

[p]How did ISKCON get so far off track?[/p]
[p]More importantly, how do we get back on?[/p]
I guess thats a whole big topic of its own.

As judge explained right after your quote: ...Traditionally, devotees distributed religious publications and then solicited donations. However, due to public disapprobation of the religion, in 1973 devotees of New Vrindaban began dressing in street clothes and distributing bumper stickers or other non-religious items. Many of these items contained counterfeit copyrighted images, such as popular cartoon characters or sports team logos.
---
It is all due to public disapproval - now we will be building a counterfit Capitol dome in Mayapur. One logically follow from the other...

...Iskcon is slowly getting back on track,we should see some good results in about 20 years when all the gurus have taken up their lila with Srila Prabhupada and a system that looks just like ritvikism is instituted because there will be no other choice.

Personaly I think Ambrish is doing a great service by seeing that the plantetarium is being built,if it wasnt for his money nothing would ever be built.

Counterfit diksa-disciples of Prabhupada are now also backing the GBC decision to support Bhavanandas design? There are dozens of temples built by ISKCON India within last few years, none with his moneys. Not that I mind but I wonder how come.

Yes I know,the GBC are 100% out for lunch,I didnt know that Bhavanada was an accomplished architect as well as a pedophile,thats quite the resume He has
going for Him-self.I guesse He has reformed,the GBC will always back the money devotees no matter who they are,its really sick.

India has a billion Hindus,so its no surprise they build lots of temples,I am sure the Catholics in Italy build lots of churches,its no big deal.

Just found it in my mailbox, looks like Ambharish and Bhavananda do not want what majority of devotees would like and keep imagining that what they are doing is under direct instruction of Prabhupada.

-

Dear Ambarisa Prabhu and Hari Sauri Prabhu,

PAMHO. Thank you for your letters.

Hari Sauri wrote:
> Bhakta Marko and Ranga Nitai . . . appear to have been misinformed as to
> what kind of input they may have in the TOVP.

No. They were informed that Ambarisa and the GBC will not take their presentation seriously. However, out of enthusiasm and the desire to offer their best professional advice, they still invested time, and the India RGB Executive Committee invited Ranga Nitai to make a presentation in New Delhi.

Ambarisa Prabhu wrote:
> Although I appreciate the recent submission of design as a very sincere
> effort, I cannot see how it is relevant to the current realities.

Since then, Ranga Nitai and Marko have been preparing a revised design scaled down to the size of the Lotus Park, i.e., "relevant to the current realities" (it should cost no more than the current TVP and would take just a year to develop).

Ambarisa may wish to see it, but everyone knows he is not considering starting over.

More in pursuance with the IRGB resolution approved by the GBC, Bhanu Swami and Pancaratna have gathered photos of five domes similar to the Capitol and decorated in Indian styles, which may inspire Ambarisa to modify the dome design.

Ambarisa Prabhu:
> We have been very accessible in our design process, except in areas
> regarding direct instructions from the Founder/Acharya, Srila Prabhupada,
> who wanted a domed building reminiscent of the U.S. Capital for Mayapur,
> along with certain other parameters.

"Changing the Design of the TVP: Reply to Hari Sauri" (on Dandavats) showed that in the summer of 1977 Srila Prabhupada did not ask Surabhis team "Where is the Capitol design?" when he instructed them in Bombay to go ahead with the Indian design made by Surabhi.

Srila Prabhupadas idea regarding the Capitol dome, in 1976, was a suggestion to have a big dome like that, but he did not repeat this in 1977. Rather, he asked that Surabhis Indian design be developed and constructed (in his letter to Gurukripa and his conversations with Surabhi). Only his physical demise and the need to construct his samadhis prevented this from being realized.

Since we wear dhotis and tilaka and cook and eat in Indian ways, and Srila Prabhupada did not preach in a pants and a shirt or use a knife and a fork, or call Ambarisa "Mr. Ford," it seems strange to us that the design team and the GBC have agreed that a resemblance to American architecture is the most appropropriate TVP design. We think that this design could charm uneducated devotees and simple Indians, but doubt that it will inspire educated devotees and nondevotee intellectuals, modern Westerners or even modern Indians. Professionally, it will be regarded as an artificial imitation and mixture of historical styles. The majority of visitors will be Indian and will not see the TVP building as part of their culture but as a Western transplant. ISKCONs leaders in India emphatically stated this and raised the question, How will rich Indians be inclined to donate for a temple that they see as not representing their culture?

Ambarisa Prabhu:
> I am taking my orders from the GBC whom Srila Prabhupada mde the ultimate
> authority of Iskcon. I would think this is especially relevant in the
> World Headquarters.

Two-thirds of the GBC agree that the current design suffices -- for the sake of getting the TVP built. Half feel that the design will not serve as an icon of Caitanya Vaisnavism for hundreds of years.

Ambarisa Prabhu:
> We think we have substantially improved the design
> over time to look like a very majestic religious and learning center.

The design team could get more professional architectural analyses of the existing project, describing its strong and weak points in a structured way.

The opinons of the professionals we have heard have not been published, since they asked us not to publish them because they were negative. Thus we have refrained from engaging in what Hari Sauri called "attempting to sap Ambarisas enthusiasm." We want Ambarisa to get full credit for fulfilling Srila Prabhupadas request to build the TVP.

Whether this design would have been approved by Srila Prabhupada we cannot know. Ambarisa has put his faith for this in some GBC leaders.

However, neither these GBC leaders nor Ambarisa Prabhu addressed all the concerns in our three articles called "Changing the Design of the TVP". Ambarisa Prabhu is stubborn, and the GBC does not wish to reject his offering, so the TVP could end up looking Disneyesque, with gold stars on a blue Capitol dome.

--ys, td

He has the money consequently the right, such is the result of having a weak GBC. Ambarisha Prabhu, spend the money in books, there are book distributors like me that do not have means to publish books and the BBT is too expensive and poor quality. If books are distributed and devotees made like before, we can build three of those toys.

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]He has the money consequently the right, such is the result of having a weak GBC. Ambarisha Prabhu, spend the money in books, there are book distributors like me that do not have means to publish books and the BBT is too expensive and poor quality. If books are distributed and devotees made like before, we can build three of those toys.[/quote]
I guess the opposite is true as well -- if he does not have money -- he does not have a right. At the moment (before the credit crunch) he pledged only 25 millions. He never said that he will pay for the whole design. So do you think that book distibutors like yourself have no say as to where the money of BBT will go? Do you think congregation that will have to come up with the remaining 50 millions has no say in it? I hope you never thought that he has all the money to build it or ever had.

Personally I find this whole disney approach to Vaisnavism very sickening.

I realize that Srila Prabhupada wanted to present the ancient vedic ways in a new light, no longer dusty old books on a poor brahmins shelf, he wanted to present it with some awe and majesty to give the leaders of society a reason to second look our society. But Srila Prabhupada passed from this world and did not witness some of the awful things that have taken place in his house, I have no dought if he were alive few of these scandalous criminals would still have a place in Iskcon.

If one reads Srila Prabhupadas letters (which are all online) He says in several of his letters "now that the leaders of Society are looking at our movement we should be very careful not to cause any scandal"

But after the scandals that have rocked Iskcon in the last few decades I dont see how buildings will change Iskcon for the better. Mayapur is already big enough, maybe there needs to be more devotee accomodation or possibly a bigger temple but Srila Prabhupada was also very adamant that buildings are secondary to preaching and book distribution.

Surely its a time for Iskcon to clean up the house, focus on reform and get back to basics.

Personally I found Iskcon to be a much better place when Iskcon was poor, they were more surrended to Krishna, the simplicity and austerity attracted me far more than any Karmi skyscraper or massive building. I have personally seen millions upon millions of dollars earned by some very surrendered devotees squandered and mis-appropriated by corrupt gurus, gbcs and temple presidents. The vast amounts of money that have come through Iskcon has simply attracted the wrong types.

When I look back at what really captivated me before I joined Iskcon it was not a building it was Srila Prabhupadas books.

They need to put Srila Prabupada back in the centre and seek a path forward from there.

So is this thing being built or what?

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/speer/welcom2.htm
[img]http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/speer/grm04.gif[/img]

Posted by Ananda-tirtha dasa, GBC Corresponding Secretary

Feb 14th - Day 3 GBC Meetings:

Day three began with a presentation by the team working on the Mayapur Temple of Vedic Planetarium project, chaired by Ambarisa Das. After a brief video comparing the proposed temple to famous buildings around the world, the GBC received an update on various aspects of the project. Hari Sauri Das discussed the work on the planetarium aspect and the exhibits showcasing Vedic cosmology. This team has approved Visuddha Sattva and Antardvipa Prabhus proposed planetarium model.

Sadbhuja Das stated that his team has nearly completed all the drawings relating to the structural design and engineering work. Other related topics discussed included the necessary government clearance, financing and fundraising, vastu issues, and environmental concerns.

Finally, the GBC were asked to vote on the last major decision: the colour of the dome. They were presented two designs, in blue or gold. The majority voted for the gold dome following which Ambarisa Prabhu mentioned that that was his preference too, despite the higher price.

(end)

ccd wrote:
===============
Hari Sauri wrote:
> Bhakta Marko and Ranga Nitai . . . appear to have been misinformed as to
> what kind of input they may have in the TOVP.

No. They were informed that Ambarisa and the GBC will not take their presentation seriously. However, out of enthusiasm and the desire to offer their best professional advice, they still invested time, and the India RGB Executive Committee invited Ranga Nitai to make a presentation in New Delhi.

Ambarisa Prabhu wrote:
> Although I appreciate the recent submission of design as a very sincere
> effort, I cannot see how it is relevant to the current realities.

Since then, Ranga Nitai and Marko have been preparing a revised design scaled down to the size of the Lotus Park, i.e., "relevant to the current realities" (it should cost no more than the current TVP and would take just a year to develop).

Ambarisa may wish to see it, but everyone knows he is not considering starting over.

================

Yes, this is unfortunate situation. I know those architects well, they are nice, naive devotees. I was asked by them to help them make final visualisation for RGB, to be presented in mid february (thats few days ago). At the end I was not involved, but I have seen their first large-scale presentation, and later attempts to scale-down to "current realities".

I think those devotees were misused by someone. Hard work without any chance to be taken seriously. They tried to make a new design, although it was clear all the time, that new design is out of question. Who engaged them anyway? Tattva-vit? I mean, some high shots are playing their games, and naive small devotees are working hard to please them. Such a waste.

Anyway, this TVP is a real mess. I wonder if they will ever be able to build anything at all. All GBC reports are shining so brightly and all is so great, that I start wondering, maybe Im living in parallel universe or something.....

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]He has the money consequently the right, such is the result of having a weak GBC. Ambarisha Prabhu, spend the money in books, there are book distributors like me that do not have means to publish books and the BBT is too expensive and poor quality. If books are distributed and devotees made like before, we can build three of those toys.[/quote]

Yes, mishra, those are toys. Big toys for big boys. I almost hope they build this golden-domed-parliament, let them have it, let them be proud of it. It will be a good lesson for all generations to come. For houndreds of years in the future, people will remember this confused GBC, and they will know exactly what was their condition. They will go in history, for sure, as example how things should not be done. Poor boys, with their big fancy toys....

There were changes to the design that were requested by Indian RGB and some of them were addressed in the proposed design (golden dome with a blue edge option). There are still some very gay features and sculptures of lions hugging phalluses etc., in the current design, but with a bit of luck and devotees voicing their views on it, it will look a bit more traditional when actually built.