Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

GBC should deal with this. Find out, who is GBC for that temple, and contact him/her.

TP is making politics to become GBC so its quite difficult...

If he is not GBC yet, then somebody else must be GBC for that area. Is it not the case? Because I know some temples have no GBC.... But if there is GBC, wouldnt it be possible for you to contact him/her? Without going through GBC it may get complicated for you.

Sometimes, improving things in temples is like "A dog trying to catch its own tail". Youll go crazy.

write an annonymous story and send it to Sampradaya Sun immediately,they will post your country only,not your name.

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]write an annonymous story and send it to Sampradaya Sun immediately,they will post your country only,not your name.[/quote]

how is this going to change anything?...but thank you anyway...

I can gaurantee you doing nothing wont change anything,thats for sure,the so called devotees you described with continue their nonsense as long as they think thier devious ways are not known by anyone,giving your story an audience of devotees is better than nothing,you are on your own.

It is nice when the devotees around us inspire us, but sometimes it is up to us to inspire them. The only change that really matters is our own spiritual development, and for that Krishna is always there for us, as are Srila Prabhupadas books.

Dasiji,

You mention that you see no point in approaching the TP or the GBC. My advice would be that these are the very things you need to do first, even if it is difficult. Bring it formally to their attention, get their official position on the situation and make everything clear. In my experience, its best not to to assume someones position/opinion until you hear it from them personally. You will learn many things by listening to their response. Then once you are clear on where everyone stands, only then can you ascertain the best course of action.

Im not a senior devotee and I need inspiration. Im one of the most insignificant devotees here and setling an example would take years. Would I survive like this for such a long time? I dont think so...

I have tried already to be the best devotee I can be, but instead of inspiring others I became the person who others can take advantage for any unwanted service.

Im tired of gossips all around, hypocresy, fights...everything is corrupted and looks like only a few of us can see it and any is a senior devotee.

Maybe seniority is the problem?...

[quote][cite] deena:[/cite]Dasiji,

You mention that you see no point in approaching the TP or the GBC. My advice would be that these are the very things you need to do first, even if it is difficult. Bring it formally to their attention, get their official position on the situation and make everything clear. In my experience, its best not to to assume someones position/opinion until you hear it from them personally. You will learn many things by listening to their response. Then once you are clear on where everyone stands, only then can you ascertain the best course of action.[/quote]

thank you. I may try then.

[quote][cite] dasi:[/cite]there are non exemplary devotees living in the temple in my town. one of them is flirting with ladies all the time. he is very senior devotee and very close to the TP.. some guests are not coming back because of this. also there is some other who takes intoxicants, even in the temple, and goes with prostitutes. everybody knows so I see no point in telling the TP...
the TP has some kind of agreements with some devotees who pay something to the temple and in this way they dont have to do any service, what is the case of this two people.
there are only 3 or 4 devotees living there and everybody who comes to stay runs away in less than a week...

the temple is becoming a bad place for preaching, besides all the daily fights and so on... is there some hope for this? what could be done?[/quote]

IMO inaction is not an option. This day and age such temples are a disgrace to our movement. Only open presentation of these problems on a devotee forum like Sampradaya Sun can force the local authorities to take action. Just please make sure that all the information you are presenting is factual.

Dasi-ji, we are all human and have many faults, yet in the temple we must all act like servants of Krsna. All our impurities must be left at the door. Those who cant follow the regulative principles should not live in the temple. You are justified in expecting a higher standard from temple devotees. Do not be discouraged. Krsna is using you to purify His temple.

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]I can gaurantee you doing nothing wont change anything,thats for sure,the so called devotees you described with continue their nonsense as long as they think thier devious ways are not known by anyone,giving your story an audience of devotees is better than nothing,you are on your own.[/quote]

ok I think first I will approach the TP and then if needed I will expose them like you adviced.

The sad fact is that when we find fault with devotees, even when the faults appear obvious, the leaders seldom take us seriously. Rather they are as much or more likely to judge us to be offenders and make our ISKCON experience more difficult. Therefore it seems more prudent to not depend on them to straighten things out, but instead to rely on Krishna and Srila Prabhupada and try to improve our devotional service in spite of them.

-----------
Pandu: The sad fact is that when we find fault with devotees, even when the faults appear obvious, the leaders seldom take us seriously. Rather they are as much or more likely to judge us to be offenders and make our ISKCON experience more difficult.
-----------

This is a good point. ISKCON is providing nice area for all those, who want positions. Not that anybody in position is after that, Im sure there are many humble devotees in positions. But those, who are after position, can find nectar within ISKCON authority structure. In ISKCON you get highest control, control over people, their lives and their souls. Clearly, any criticism directed towards such persons will result in counterattack from their side. And that is quite purifying, to say the least. As Pandu says, one who is not interested in being bullied by power-hungry leaders, better just forget about them, and fix on his own spiritual life.

Good leader will seek criticism. He will see it as Krsnas arrangement for him to become even better. He will provide means, so that you can easily contact him with your complaints and suggestions. Usually with such a leader you will not even need to go to him and speak up - he will come to you and ask for your opinion. But there are crooks, who will see any criticism as product of your envy and greed, who will see it as your attack on them nad their position, and who will cause you trouble for every little thing you point out that needs improvement. Such crooks are better to be avoided, and left for Krsna to deal with them. Although it is fun to shake their power structure a bit, by exposing them in public, but that may better be done anonymously.

Its very sad to see that at the end you have to renounce to be happy in the temple serving with devotees in a cooperating mood... at least in the west.

I had been thinking about speaking or not speaking with the TP for a few days and I just decided better not. I though what my spiritual master would do and that would be being humble so...

What I have to do is to tell the TP about this lady who felt offended by this devotee because her boyfriend asked me to do something, so I will just inform about it.

Thank you to all for your support. At least we will always have the internet...

Because Iskcon does not have a good system of checks and balances it is up to the individual devotees to attempt the correcting action when they feel correction is needed. Autocratic management is notoriously prone to abuse. A sudra or vaishya ruler will need a very physical stick to become corrected in their behavior. Outing their nonsense activities in public is just one of such sticks. If the TP is nominated by some distant GBC and not elected by the local devotees, that TP has a tendency to be loyal only to the GBC, because that is where the real power comes from. In that case when local devotees feel the TP needs to be corrected, they have no other choice but go the local GBC. If that GBC is not solving the problem they should present their grievances in public. Humility is not seeking personal recognition. Allowing abuse to go uchecked is not humility.

I went to do some service to the temple today and all my doubts about "to talk or not to talk" were solved. aproaching the TP is useless. one devotee told me he personally told him about the one who takes drugs, not only that but he told him that he has been selling drugs in the temple and nothing happened with this devotee... Hare Krsna!!!

As Pandu Prabhu said...better to be prudent.

Normally people do only those things which dont have any fear around them but then there is nothing left worth doing. All that is worth doing has certain fear around it. People who live out of fear think more of not committing mistake. They dont commit any mistake for sure but they dont do anything else either, they dont do any contribution to society.

Dont be afraid, you need to speak up at least anonymously. Selling drugs in temple is very very serious and must be stopped.

tell everyone so that they are kicked out of the temple ASAP!!!

I agree; if there are illegal drugs being sold on temple property, it must be stopped immediately.

If they are selling drugs you should report them to the police. Forget your TP. That is a complete nonsense.

[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]If they are selling drugs you should report them to the police. Forget your TP. That is a complete nonsense.[/quote]
but then the devotees and the movement will get bad reputation as a whole.

.." but then the devotees and the movement will get bad reputation as a whole " we are already there,the demons must be dealt with,getting rid of them will give Iskcon a good name,it shows our leaders are responible and take action.

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite][quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]If they are selling drugs you should report them to the police. Forget your TP. That is a complete nonsense.[/quote]
but then the devotees and the movement will get bad reputation as a whole.[/quote]

No, no bad reputation. Bad reputation comes from covering it up.

Like in christianity, if some priest is doing nonsense, and they cut him off and replace him, nobody thinks bad of christianity. But if he is kept in position, and protected no matter what, then it comes out in public eventually, and that is bad reputation.

Still it is better if the TP or the GBC calls the police rather than a regular devotee. If they want to handle it internally, then they must immediately stop it and make sure it doesnt happen again. If not one or the other, then anyone else should feel free to call in the law.

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite][quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]If they are selling drugs you should report them to the police. Forget your TP. That is a complete nonsense.[/quote]
but then the devotees and the movement will get bad reputation as a whole.[/quote]

we already have a bad reputation for allowing all kinds of criminal activities in our movement. dealing drugs from the temple is completely abhorent and should never, ever, be tolerated. bad reputation comes from tolerating criminals in our movement.

so what happened with this? are they still in the temple or what?

I tried to speak to tps wife but she didnt want to hear... I dont know if they are in the temple. I lost so much inspiration that I stopped going to the temple.

In your place I would inform some senior devotees whom you trust and still try to stay in association of devotees, away from the temple if it doesnt inspire you. Thats what I am doing now. After all, Krishna is not only in the temple and so are His devotees. I see it as a test how independent I am in my Krishna consciousness from external circumstances. It is very important however to stay in association of devotees no matter what. Preaching to myself here :)

yes Saryu, thats what Im trying to do now :) thank you