Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Why? Because, if you give a hungry person some food, he will eat it, and then be hungry again. But if you teach him how to produce food, then he will never be hungry again?

Krsna arranged it so, maybe so that we learn. Krsna Consciousness has a long way to go. Christianity has been arround for 2000 years, and it seems like forever. We started counting western time with Christianity. But KC will be around five times more, 10000 years.

We need to learn our lessons well. We will be coming back until we are ripe for Goloka. And each lifetime will be better.

In our vaisnava sampradaya we have strong examples how things are to be done. And from karmi world we have great examples of how things are not to be done. But in ISKCON, we need to learn what is not to be done, to be able to do things properly.

Srila Prabhupada gave knowledge. He didnt care much about leaders, as long as they didnt cause too much trouble to him by their leadership. I bet he knew exactly that all will fall. But he had no better. So, let them step up, and fall. And others will learn from that. And let others step up, and fail again. And all will learn more.

What do you think. Could this be so?

Maybe; I dont know. Whenever I reach a conclusion, something else comes along to undermine it. I feel like the rope in a tug-o-war between Krishna and Maya, except that Krishna doesnt seem to be pulling. He says He is the "ability in man," so what hope do I have unless He orders Maya to let me go?

We have to have devotee association, but sometimes it seems transcendental and other times dreadful. If my perception was correct, my first day at New Vrindavana was the same day Tapa Punja, whom I consider a friend, returned there after a few years in jail for his involvenment in the heinous murder of Sulocana to counter his genuine criticism of Kirtananda, whom Srila Prabhupada put into power. How can I sort out such an incredible mix-up of facts, which is just one example among many? How is it possible to associate with such devotees without committing offenses? Not only convince myself, but Im supposed to preach to others that this is spiritual! In fact I love preaching Krishna consciousness, but considering the example I found when I came to ISKCON, its no wonder people generally think Im a little nuts when I try to give this to them as the real solution.

I can accept that Krishna wants us to get out of the material world, which is full of bewilderment and suffering, but I wish He would clear the path a lot more. Listening to Srila Prabhupadas audio recordings yesterday, I heard him compare getting out of material nature like getting out of a well in which the guru has dropped a rope, saying we must at least climb the rope. Well, Im still quite dazed from the fall, not to mention the lack of light in here, and might need someone to come down with a lantern and put me into a basket so I can be pulled out.

Pandu, I feel shaken too. Devastated, actually. I just realized today, I guess finally to the full, how Srila Prabhupadas books were heavily edited. Nobody even knows anymore how originals looked like. It is gone. Editing was just too much, overdone. And original is lost forever. This is killing me. And over all, nobody seems to be bothered with that at all. Im so confused. Why is nobody disturbed by heavy editing? Im freaking out!!!! I cannot get it. Im totally finished, feeling cheated, again. How can this be? Im so unfortunate....

And while Srila Prabhupada is slowly being brushed away, pushed out of our focus, new guru stars are rising. I cannot figure that either. With constant total availability of Srila Prabhupada, who would even care for anyone else? And it seems as the most glorified ones, are the least deserving ones. Like Radhanath Swami. It just makes no sense how he is being promoted. Everywhere. Thats crazy! He is like the best of the best. And I canoot figure out what is going on. Regarding Radhanath and NV murders, some time ago photos of court legal documents were published on Sun, where Dharmatma describes active involvement of Radhanatha Swami in preparation of murder, and paying murdrer afterwards - it is all black on white, with witnesses, judge and all.... It is clear beyond anything.... Why we refuse to see it? Why is such person still being worshiped as guru and promoted so violently down our throats by his supporters?

So, now you tell me how am I gonna live with this mess? Who to trust? Who to turn too? Im just devastated. Id say "its not fair", if I didnt know that Im getting exactly what I deserve. I must have been bad cheater, and now Im just cheated in return.

If it wasnt for Srila Prabhupadas lectures, Id be finished already. Hearing Srila Prabhupada, his voice, is the only time in my life, when Im in peace.

CommentAuthorGiri-nayaka das said:
"Regarding Radhanath and NV murders, some time ago photos of court legal documents were published on Sun, where Dharmatma describes active involvement of Radhanatha Swami in preparation of murder, and paying murdrer afterwards - it is all black on white, with witnesses, judge and all.... It is clear beyond anything.... Why we refuse to see it? Why is such person still being worshiped as guru and promoted so violently down our throats by his supporters?

So, now you tell me how am I gonna live with this mess? Who to trust? Who to turn too? Im just devastated. Id say "its not fair", if I didnt know that Im getting exactly what I deserve. I must have been bad cheater, and now Im just cheated in return.

If it wasnt for Srila Prabhupadas lectures, Id be finished already. Hearing Srila Prabhupada, his voice, is the only time in my life, when Im in peace. "

the one true and saving grace of the entire radhanath / kirtanananda, in ISKCON, kicked out of ISKCON era was that for some, it forced us to re-associate with Srila Prabhupada through His Books and by our chanting. this was our proper position to begin with, but since it eliminates the need for some fallible third party indulgence peddlers, it has not caught on with any organizational support. pity !

This is exactly what Im talking about. After reading a substantial portion of Srila Prabhupadas books and getting a little devotee association, I went to New Vrindavana hoping to get immersed in the practical lifestyle that I had read about. Im sure you know I got a big surprise. My other option was Gita-nagari, but when I was deciding which place to go, I met Mother Mahavegavati, and she warned me all about Bhakti Tirtha Swami and his cult, which apparently was basically an offshoot of the New Vrindavana cult. Theyre all devotees (in fact much greater than me in almost every respect), so we cannot criticize; but what kind of devotees promote the murder of other devotees, even their godbrothers and godsisters? We have heard about Radhanathas involvement with the murder of Sulocana, as Janmastami Prabhu has abundantly documented, and I have also heard plenty from Mother Mahavegavati about Bhakti Tirtha Swamis sending Mother Hladini to certain death in Liberia to protect his sannyasa reputation. Im reluctant to believe such things about leading devotees in ISKCON, but at the same time theyre quite plausable in the context of everything weve seen and heard. I have a deep faith in Srila Prabhupada because of a mystical experience that resulted from studying Bhagavad-gita As It Is, but I dont feel confident to preach because of what appears to be so much corruption in ISKCONs leadership. I listen to Srila Prabhupadas audio normally for several hours each day, and for me too his voice and instruction is so soothing. But then I sometimes wonder about the 40% of Srila Prabhupadas audio recordings that Rocana Prabhu says are not available to the public. (http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-06/editorials1000.htm) Its pretty easy to maintain control when you control (and restrict) the flow of information. Of course, Im strongly biased toward trusting devotees, but ISKCON has made itself very difficult to trust. At the same time, its the only game in town. As a result, I feel significantly hampered in my spritual life, both personally and in my confidence to preach.

Hare Krishna.

Janmastami prabhu sent me this discussion, so I "came here" now. (Normally I dont go to any websites; only when a devotee has either sent something to me, or asked me to "go look..." So Im "here" now for making comment, but I might not "be back again in the future." (Im just not a computer person in terms of these website and/or forum things; just some emailing (mainly for (free) counseling) when I can get on the public computer.)

As ILL (computer "karma") "luck" would have it, I just wrote out a WHOLE detailed explanation of the various points I was addressing and somehow (in going above to look to make sure I spelled Giri-hayaka prabhus name correctly), my WHOLE submission just "disappeared." Needless to say, I was FRIED!

So Ill just make this one (much) SHORT(ER):

Irregardless of whatever the situation, Caitya Guru (Paramatma) is HERE, WITH us, the jivatma, directing us according to our desires. Caitya Guru KNOWS EXACTLY what we want; what percentage we want Krsna Prema, or Mayas illusions. Thus, with or without (UNedited) books, tapes, CDs, etc., if we truly want Krsna Prema, Krsna (in His Functional Form here) is going to make ALL the necessary arrangements. Our desires (and sincerity) are also being tested along the way. So dont get "blown out" (or "away"). Krsna is the Ultimate Controller. Our faith is ALWAYS being tested, our also being allowed to see "where were at" in all regards, including spiritual (and material) desires, conviction of purpose, strength (and/or lack of it) in our chosen purpose (regarding development of Krsna Bhakti).

As far as "devotee" goes/"devotees go, we use this word "devotee," but there is qualfication in terms of what means devotee. (Just like an apple covered with a peach skin is not a peach, but an apple, similary for one to be a devotee, one has to have the qualities that constitute devotee.) In the ultimate sense, EVERY jiva by dint of constitution IS a devotee. But for our "practical" purposes, there is the "unripe mango," ripening to become the "fully ripe mango," or there is the "not mango." As Srila Prabhupada referred to Srila Bhaktivinode Thakurs statements regarding kali-cela (CC Madhya 1.220), not everyone dressed in dhoti (sari) with sikha and tilak is a devotee. (There are so many more quotes, so you scholars, reading here, or those with the Vedabase - I think thats what you call it? - can find them. At one point Srila Prabhupada had even said "There are demons" (Srila Prabhupadas EXACT word) "in this Krsna consciousness movement.")

So dont get bewildered by it (all). Everything has its GOOD (Krsna conscious) purpose, and we are (our faith is) being tested, AS WELL AS, through such things, our being able to see "WHERE" we are (or are not) at in terms of our own development (or lack of it) in Krsna Bhakti. The whole purpose is for us as individuals to develop Krsna Prema, and as we know, Krsna does not allow for this too easily, as Krsna Himself is purchased ONLY by Bhakti (and gives Himself fully to His Bhakta. So, as explained by Guru, sadhu and Sastra, this Bhakti is NOT a "cheap" process). So if we want Krsna, we have to "pay the price," and it will include the SO MANY tests..., etc. along the way.

Pandu prabhu, just to make things a bit more clear: Hladini prabhus murder was more than simply "Bhakti Tirtha Swamis" (from now on, my using BT) "sending Mother Hladini to certain death in Liberia to protect his sannyasa reputation." KNOWING full well the situation in Liberia, AS WELL AS BT having an African devotee who knew the coup leaders in Liberia, BT through this person ARRANGED for Hladini prabhus death, other African devotees also getting killed. (BT also tried to arrange for mine as well, but...) No need to go into "all the details" here: I actually gave so much more in what I typed out previously, but somehow something ? happened that made my submission "disappear." (I have NO idea WHAT happened

As said above, ARRANGED for Hladinis murder through another African (Nigerian) devotee (who had already murdered someone in the temple in Ibadan (Nigeria) while BT was there in 1988. Bhaktitirtha "relocated" this devotee after he did this murder in Ibadan to become temple president of another ISKCON West African temple (in a different country). BT knew VERY WELL this "devotees" character, (was also afraid of him), and knew of this "devotees" friendship with the rebel leaders in Liberia, and used this devotee (and his friendships) to "accomplish BTs objective(s)".

I was supposed to have also "been there" in Liberia with Hladini, but... I did not go at the same time with her and the other (Nigerian) devotees sent (BT also having his "thing" against these devotees - no need to go into that here). I went to Liberia to try to get these devotees out, after having received a letter from Satananda prabhu telling me the situation, (his also stating that despite the situation, his guru (BT) was insisting on his and the other devotees STAYING there (despite what has been written in a book about Hladini prabhu. IF what was written there - that "BT told the devotees to leave" was "true," then WHY would they NOT have left? (Makes NO logical sense: Youre in a dangerous situation, and your guru is telling you to leave, BUT, you "decide on your own volition (against your gurus instructions to leave) to stay". That is NOT what happened. BT did NOT tell them to leave: INSTEAD, BT TOLD them TO STAY - so that they could (and
did) GET KILLED!) So the devotees stayed because BT TOLD THEM TO STAY THERE!!! I went to TRY to get them out, but I got there TOO LATE!

At THAT time I had ALL the evidence concerning the situation, and TRIED to address it to the GBC (chairman, and Ministry of Justice). NO ONE would give ANY address to this, so...

I can give so many more details, but the (public) computer time is closing out.

In Kali yuga, dealing with truth is a TOUGH thing; meaning, that although we speak up with the truth, SO MANY people do NOT want to accept or hear it. Srila Prabhupada Himself explained, sach bale tomare lutha jutha jagat mohaye: "When one tells lies, everyone is enchanted, but when one tells the truth, s/he is beaten with sticks." This ALSO applies to ISKCON, because we who "joined" ISKCON are people living in the Kali Yuga, being affected by the varioius anomalies to whatever degree, (unless we have attained transcendence of such).

I found that whenever I tried to speak these truths to devotees, I was ONLY CONDEMNED! Thus, after getting "beaten down" (or up - depending), at times I wonder if it is even "worth" trying to speak such (relative) truth to devotees, etc. At a given time, people generally believe what they want to believe, ALTHOUGH, with time, their thoughts sometimes do change.

[quote][cite] Pandu das:[/cite]
Considering the above statement by Srila Prabhupada, which I think supports my previous notion, why did Srila Prabhupada empower disciples who later created so much trouble in ISKCON?[/quote]

A guru knows the heart of his disciples to the extent that Krsna allows him to know. Krsna has His own plans too. Yes, Srila Prabhupada empowered some questionable characters to become leaders in his movement. That is a fact seen by us from the perspective of time. But people like Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Hansadutta, Jayatirtha also could have turned out to be wonderful devotees. Instead they chose a different path. It was their decision, their free choice. It was not Prabhupadas fault they became a disgrace to his society.

[quote][cite] BVRGSwami:[/cite]Pandu prabhu, just to make things a bit more clear: Hladini prabhus murder was more than simply "Bhakti Tirtha Swamis" (from now on, my using BT) "sending Mother Hladini to certain death in Liberia to protect his sannyasa reputation." KNOWING full well the situation in Liberia, AS WELL AS BT having an African devotee who knew the coup leaders in Liberia, BT through this person ARRANGED for Hladini prabhus death, other African devotees also getting killed. (BT also tried to arrange for mine as well, but...) No need to go into "all the details" here: I actually gave so much more in what I typed out previously, but somehow something ? happened that made my submission "disappear." (I have NO idea WHAT happened [/quote]

Very interesting topic. Please do not be discouraged by computer glitches - it happens all the time. It is best to first write in a Notepad file, save it, and then copy it to a post here.

Prabhu, it is important to preserve historical knowledge of such things, otherwise the mythmakers will have their way, and Sridhama Mayapur will become littered with monuments to over-glorified crooks.