Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Hare Krishna, Giri-nayaka prabhu. I think this is the article you mentioned that I wrote:
http://oppositerule.govindapeacefarm.com/?p=585

And this is the story from Srila Prabhupadas pre-ISKCON lila:

From Our Srila Prabhupada, A Friend to All, '93Early Contemporaries Remember Him,'94 this part told by Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Goswami Maharaja:

'93'85Later Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu wrote another dramatic article '97 this time about some of the leaders in the Gaudiya Matha. The article explained how the institution was coming apart after Srila [Bhaktisiddhanta] Prabhupada'92s departure. Grihasthas were giving up their wives and loving others'92 wives, and in the name of developing the mission, some were putting all the money collected into their own pockets. Sannyasis, even those who had been with their Prabhupada, were making buildings and sending all the money to their sons in their former homes to go to high school and university, or to go to England and America to study law and other things. He wrote about this situation and the first part was published in our Bhagavata-patrika and Gaudiya-patrika. At once a big storm broke out in the whole Gaudiya Mission. Although only about three pages were printed, letters began to come from many Gaudiya Mathas.

'93It was like a revolution. Our guru maharaja and Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu were talking and smiling very secretly together. Prabhu said, '91We should publish more of it. Why not?'92 Guru Maharaja was also in favor of publishing it. However many of the godbrothers exclaimed, '91Oh, Kesava Maharaja, what are you doing, printing this? Then everyone will know and will criticize the Gaudiya Matha. These are our private family matters.'92 Even Pujyapada Srila Sridhara Maharaja, who was highly respected by all, was consulted. Many godbrothers came to Mathura at that time and Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu was residing here in our matha. Srila Tirtha Maharaja andother devotees asked, '91What are you going to do? If you print this then our present institution will be smashed.'92 Guru Maharaja and Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu were smiling and asking each other, '91Oh, what to do?'92 But when requested by so many godbrothers they decided, '91Later on we may publish the articles, but for now we should obey their orders.'92'94

I just submitted the following comment to Dandavats:

Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Im afraid it is a dangerous philosophy to fear of finding fault and to condemn those who do. Historically there have been serious problems in ISKCON, as we all know. An obvious example is that more than 500 Hare Krishna children sued ISKCON for being subjected to physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. I dont mean that the problem was that they sued!

Why were they subjected to such treatment for so long? In an environment where everyone is taught that fault finding is an offense, abuse of all kinds can go on and on. Should we not be vigilant to recognize deviations from what Srila Prabhupada taught was spiritual life? Certainly it is most important that we each purify ourselves, but if in that process I see some kind of abuse going on around me, shouldnt I do what I can to stop it?

I understand that everything is subject to Krishnas control, but that also includes all of my facilities as well. Therefore my urge to protect the weak is a part of Krishnas energy. One may say that everything happens according to karma, but if we are devotees then our duty is to engage ourselves and everyone in devotional service, not to be dispensers of the reactions of karma. It is certainly abominable to find fault due to envy, and in such a condition one can even find faults that are insignificant or even nonexistent. Yet someone may also find fault in a constructive way, in the mood of giving guidance or protecting the innocent. That kind of fault finding is dutiful, a part of devotional service.

Sometimes the caution against fault finding can be misused, so that a deviant leader perpetuates his rascaldom. In this case, many honest devotees can be hurt. One "fault finding" devotee was famously murdered under this kind of circumstance, and a community was later excommunicated due to following this perverted guru. The caution against fault finding has its place, but sometimes it is our duty to find fault and to do something to fix it.

Hare Krishna.

Very, very nice explanation

Author of Dandavats article goes on with his witch-hunt, and attempts to further define faultfinders. He hopes to become succesful in implemeting strong separatism between devotees. He is convinced, that he is right. One side he labels as "faultfinders", and in his book those are clearly demons of the worst kind. The other side he labels with "sincere devotees" and "honest devotees", and in his book clearly this is what every one of us is expected to be.

His main point is that "sincere devotees" will discuss issues quietly, behind the scenes. And "faultfinders" will do it publically.

Author presents his perception in sharp black/white. There are no greys for him. After bringing his issues out in public, using his own words, "gloating in the credit of hurting the feelings of others", and his approach where "even honest devotees in good standing are unable to escape indiscriminate corrections", I wonder in which of his two categories he fits best.

I leave it up to his own humble judgement. My only suggestion to author is, that world is not black/white, but rather shades of grey. It is Kali yuga. In our hearts are devotees and demons.

(continuation of Dandavats article, comment by author):
=====================
While it is true many issues need to be dealt with, and sincere devotees will no doubt raise their concerns in the proper way, there is a difference of approach in how faultfinders and sincere devotees face such problems.

A sincere devotee will more likely tackle the issues at hand without going for the man as it were - to heap scorn on a personal level. Sincere devotees will observe vaisnava protocols and communicate concerns behind the scenes. Such discreet communication will help ease the pressure for forced disclosure and minimise the personal fallout, considering the hurt caused.

Faultfinders will sieze the same opportunity and publicise the issue and gloat in the credit of hurting the feelings of others. The pride of righteousness will also aim for the man and personalise the issue. Even honest devotees in good standing are unable to escape indiscriminate corrections.

The difference of approach is the difference between goodness and ignorance tinged with passion; mature or immature, civilized or corrosive. Even materailistic people acknowledge the need for civilized conduct when resolving faulty issues. Of course, serious matters will surface sooner or later, naming and all, and there is no exception within the devotee community either, and in some cases this is warranted.

So the behaviour of a sincere devotee and how he or she reacts in certain situations will be different to how a seething faultfinder reacts. If we are unable too see the difference we can very easily side with the faultfinding mentality and think to ourselves: '93What'92s the harm? There only pointing out defects.'94

It should come to notice that a display of indifference, or mild approval, can grab one into the net of faultfinding and eventually erode the sensitivity to finer vaisnava sentiments. For this reason a desensitised mind feels less guilt about harsh judgements.

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Nice discussion here!

Does anyone where i can get a digital copy of "From Our Srila Prabhupada, A Friend to All, '93Early Contemporaries Remember Him?

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite]Nice discussion here!

Does anyone where i can get a digital copy of "From Our Srila Prabhupada, A Friend to All, '93Early Contemporaries Remember Him?[/quote]

I posted about it on my blog a few years ago, with the below info. We got ours from a book table supplied by Krishna Culture. Im at work now so I cant check if the link still works (nice that this site gets through our Intenet filter), but here it is:[br /]
http://tinyurl.com/3uctsj
[br /]

Our Srila Prabhupada A Friend to All / Early Contemporaries Remember Him compiled by Mulaprakrti devi dasi, who collected these interviews in the final years of her life. They are grouped in chapters: Calcutta From the 1920s, Allahabad from the 1930s, Navadvipa & Calcutta from the 1940s, Jhansi from the 1950s; Vrindavana, Mathura and Delhi from 1954; Radha Damodara Mandira from 1959; and ISKCON from 1967. Over 70 of his contemporary friends tell how Srila Prabhupada touched their hearts and lives. Soft, 306 pp., 120 photos, $9

I think we need to see the difference of faultfinding and actually noticing the faults. Both are okay if done with a certain perspective.

Bhaktivinode Thakur indicates that the correct perspective for finding and discussing faults is for educational purposes. He cites the example of the sastras which find fault with so many people in so many ways in so many different stories for the purpose of educating people.

[quote][cite] deena:[/cite]Bhaktivinode Thakur indicates that the correct perspective for finding and discussing faults is for educational purposes. He cites the example of the sastras which find fault with so many people in so many ways in so many different stories for the purpose of educating people.[/quote]
Where did he say it? Caitanya siksamrita?

It is in Bhaktyaloka.

Bhaktyaloka, in chapter about Prajalpa, describing how talking of others faults is not prajalpa when purpose is to instruct or make conclusion:
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Unless one speaks in this way while instructing and while concluding a subject, there is no benefit for oneself or others. Therefore when the previous 'e4c'e4ryas have personally set example and taught others, how will we be benefitted by acting contrary to their instruction? And if one discusses in this way the improper behavior current in a religious sect or amongst the general public, then such talk is not adverse to devotional service. Even if one sometimes talks about a particular person, there is no fault.
============

and later:
=========
Fault-finding arises only from imposing ones own bad habits on others. This should be given up in all respects.
==========

It is in Vedabase, so you can read the whole passage.

http://tinyurl.com/cbnyr

Fatal Error: Miva is configured for redirected use only

Ok, heres the corrected link:

http://tinyurl.com/3uctsj

http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KC&Product_Code=OSP&Category_Code=B-S-P

Ill fix it in my previous post as well.

Hare Krishna.

Its a very interesting book.

I submitted the following comment to Dandavats two-and-a-half days ago, but they rejected it and did not also did not respond by e-mail. (I didnt really expect it to get published, but I thought it deserved at least a brief personal response.) They also did not post my first comment near the top of this page. They did post my quote from Srila Prabhupadas pastimes, but I cant respond to others questions about it. Sometimes I lose patience with that site. Isnt if faultfinding on their part, to censor devotees like that?

Heres what I submitted most recently:

Hare Krishna.

This is a very important subject, but Im afraid that the present forum is not suitable for discussing it. My first comment on this article was rejected, and Ive rewritten several times but did not bother to submit these because I know from experience that they would be rejected too. Eventually it gets to be so far removed from how I actually feel about the subject that it seems pointless. I dont know what I can say that will be allowed here, and it takes a lot of time to write something about fault finding without implying that there might actually be genuine, serious faults. Then I have to wait days to see if it gets approved. I have too much to do; no time to play this game.

Therefore if anyone would care to discuss with me the subject of fault finding, please write to me at: pandu.bms at gmail.com

If the moderator wont publish this comment, please write telling me what I can say here. Thank you. Hare Krishna.

keep sending them the articles and publish them too in alternate sites like http://notdandavats.wordpress.com
http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/746/which-of-your-comments-dandavats-did-not-post
such gross editing and blocking is ridiculous on the Information era.