Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

...if you are an American devotee,you should not vote.If you must vote you will share in the bad karma.Krishna is the controler of everything,not this party or that party.

Im skeptical that voting will cause a grhastha to accrue karma that one would not accrue by not voting. We know that a democratic government is inferior to a good monarchy, but it is generally better than a bad monarchy, and moreover its the present reality. If the wise people dont vote, then the fools will choose the leader, which is precisely the problem with democracy. Voting is a civic duty, and renouncing duty does not make one a transcendentalist. It does no good to just consider all the candidates to be karmis or demons. There are gradations within each category. Every living entity is spiritual and at some point in development of Krishna consciousness whether they know it or not, and devotees can judge according to spiritual principles who may be a better leader. If a devotee without material motives votes according to his conscience with faith that Krishna will protect him from any reaction, Krishna may help that leader, maybe to win the election or more importantly to be a good leader, if only for the sake of honoring the devotees intent.

Also, it is always a celebrated event when a famous person such as an elected leader visits a temple, receives prasad, etc. Its a good photo opportunity that can help our preaching movement. Weve many times heard the famous verse, "Whatever action a great man performs..." Well, if politicians learn that devotees dont vote, then they will not consider it important to visit us and give those photo opportunities that easily become preaching opportunities. If the political leaders learn that we dont vote, they wont give us these preaching opportunities. We should not cater to mundane politics for material purposes, but to the extent that we can use anything to advance Lord Caitanyas movement, we should do it.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta once admonished his grhasta disciples for not giving charity on a similar plea. Are we so transcendental as to consider ourselves situated "above" politics?
Another thing is that you see how politicians are usually cheaters etc.
Same devotees who hold the "demon" category on politicians garland and honour them when they come to the temple. It is not one thing or the other. Balance is to be used on this one imho.

Imho, politicians dont visit our temples to get specifically our votes but to be perceived as religious (India) or religiously open (West) by the public to enhance their image.

Otherwise democratic election in absence of Vaisnava candidates means only to choose the (apparently) less evil. If that helps remains to be seen.

...this one is a no-brainer,Prabhupada called democracy " demon-crazy ",why would a Vaisnava participate in such an institution.? The USA is the most sinfull and degraded society/culture on earth,why support it ?

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]...this one is a no-brainer,Prabhupada called democracy " demon-crazy ",why would a Vaisnava participate in such an institution.? [/quote]

and the authocratic system of management in Iskcon is better? how?

...i think you should start a new question Kula-pavana Prabhu,Prabhupada was talking about karmis,not devotees.

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta left elections and GBC as the only available alternative. In the absence of a self-effulgent acarya, democracy seems to be lesser evil. EEUU has no real democracy but that is another issue.

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]...this one is a no-brainer,Prabhupada called democracy " demon-crazy ",why would a Vaisnava participate in such an institution.? The USA is the most sinfull and degraded society/culture on earth,why support it ?[/quote]

Abstaining from voting does nothing to change the government. It simply allows others to choose the leader. The main problem with democracy is that the leaders are chosen by a population of mostly fools who dont know their own interest. If you dont vote, then that is what youre actually supporting -- that the fools should choose the leader. The fact is that democracy is the established form of government, and if the government is going to be run according to religious principles, then the religious people have to vote. Avoiding the election doesnt make a person transcendental, only irrelevant. If a devotee is too busy distributing Srila Prabhupadas books, then indeed that would be a better use of time (yet people may respect devotees more and be more likely to take a book if they saw us as socially responsible on their terms, and it only takes a few minutes to vote) ; but otherwise no one should kid themselves thinking theyre having a revolution by sitting on the couch.

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]...i think you should start a new question Kula-pavana Prabhu,Prabhupada was talking about karmis,not devotees.[/quote]

I think the connection is there. Basically it all revolves around the question of: "what is the most practical system of government to benefit people who are organized under it?" If Srila Prabhupada wanted devotees to chose temple presidents by voting, why not vote in general country elections? Why should I not help to chose a leader of a country in which I practice Krsna consciousness?

The authocratic systems of governing do not seem to work very well in Kali-yuga, even among the devotees. I would much prefer to be able to chose my GBC instead of settling for some guy chosen for me by a bunch of corrupt and inept GBCs for life.

...if you want to vote in a karmi election , thats fine, just be prepared to suffer the karma of participating in Mayas kingdom,if in your country the leaders are against illicit sex,gambling,intoxication and animal slaughter and they whorship Lord Krishna,then you have little to worry about.

...as for elections within Iskcon,Prabhupada wanted the GBC elected every three years,this is a well known fact,but to compare karmi democracy and
elections in Iskcon are two completly different topics.

...according to Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada,elections are a product of kali-yuga,the real system is for the nation to be governed by saintly kings,this is not possible today.

Prabhupada: "According to our Vedic civilization, first-class mens vote required, who knows things as they are. One who does not know things as they are, what is the use of taking vote from him?"
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne

I think this is exactly what I was saying. If you are knowledgeable, your vote is required. In a democracy, if the wise dont vote, the fools decide the election. Even in a Vedic monarchy, if the brahmanas dont approve of the king, they bring him down. This quote is the only instance in the Vedabase where any variation of "vote" and "karma" are found within 50 words of each other. (advanced search: "vot* karm*"/50) Srila Prabhupada said it, "According to our Vedic civilization, first-class mens vote required, who knows things as they are." When those with knowledge abstain from voting, they allow the ignorant to choose the leader, which is precisely the problem with democracy.

Who should not vote? According to Srila Prabhupada, "One who does not know things as they are..."

If there is any disagreement, I would like to see explicit evidence from Srila Prabhupadas teachings.

Hare Krishna.

I strongly feel that institution in general should not support vote one way or another. We did a huge mistake to support BJP as an institution with all the brahmacaries voting for them, where they did not win, other missions on the West did a mistake of supporting a particular government in 1930s. Again a brutal mistake that ended that saga.

There will be individuals who will decide one way or another, to vote or not and whom to vote. But the main thing is not to come across one way or another.

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]...if you want to vote in a karmi election , thats fine, just be prepared to suffer the karma of participating in Mayas kingdom,if in your country the leaders are against illicit sex,gambling,intoxication and animal slaughter and they whorship Lord Krishna,then you have little to worry about.

...as for elections within Iskcon,Prabhupada wanted the GBC elected every three years,this is a well known fact,but to compare karmi democracy and
elections in Iskcon are two completly different topics.

...according to Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada,elections are a product of kali-yuga,the real system is for the nation to be governed by saintly kings,this is not possible today.[/quote]

and not voting is supposed to be a karma-free option? I doubt it. If you do not act against evil you are effectively promoting it.

It was Srila Prabhupada who made the GBCs an appointment for life, going against the earlier DOM principles. It is a well known fact too.

There is a conversation from May 28th 1977 where Srila Prabhupada seems to have changed his mind regarding DOM:

Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, we were all asked by the rest of the GBC to come to ask some questions. Most'85 These are the members of the original GBC as you first made it up. So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know how long should they remain in office?

Prabhupada: They should remain for good.

Tamala Krishna: They should remain for good.

Prabhupada: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. Rather, if some competent man comes, he should be added. I shall recommend that Vasudeva become one of the GBC.

Tamala Krishna: Vasudeva is Deoji Punja. He'92s the founder of our'85
He'92s building the temple in Fiji.

Prabhupada: How many GBC'92s are there already?

Tamala Krishna: Twenty-three.

Prabhupada: So add him. GBC is not to be changed.

Satsvarupa: But then, in the event that some present GBC member leaves, either leaves'85

Prabhupada: Another should be elected.

Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. '85'85'85'85'85'85.

['85'85'85.]

Prabhupada: So there is no question of changing GBC.

Satsvarupa: No.

Prabhupada: Rather, one who is competent, he can be selected to act by the board of the GBC.

Tamala Krishna: Of course, if someone has a falldown, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down'85

Prabhupada: He should be replaced.

Tamala Krishna: Then he should be replaced. But that'92s a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.

Prabhupada: They must be all ideal acarya-like. In the beginning we have done for working. Now we should be very cautious. Anyone who is deviating, he can be replaced.

[quote]

Prabhupada: They should remain for good.

Tamala Krishna: They should remain for good. [/quote]

Sounds like a life-sentence to me:-)

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite][quote]

Prabhupada: They should remain for good.

Tamala Krishna: They should remain for good. [/quote]

Sounds like a life-sentence to me:-)[/quote]

For them, or for our movement? ;)

please do not change the original question, thank you

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]...if you are an American devotee,you should not vote.If you must vote you will share in the bad karma.Krishna is the controler of everything,not this party or that party.[/quote]
What about karma of not voting, because the winner is in power because you didnt vote......

...this winner ..that winner...makes no difference,both are in maya.karma for not voting would be good karma,just like karma for not eating animals.

[quote][cite] hariharibol:[/cite]...this winner ..that winner...makes no difference,both are in maya.karma for not voting would be good karma,just like karma for not eating animals.[/quote] hariharibol is right he did not vote, because there is no difference for him. if it made a difference for you, just as it made a difference for arjuna on the kuruksetra, if you did not fight - that inaction would be action in ignorance.