Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

I dont mind being called mataji or prabhu, but I feel more comfortable with mataji...

I dont know what matajis think about it, but as far as I know adressing other devotee as Prabhu means adressing him as the part and parcel of Krishna and we address this way also the Supersoul within his heart. So matajis shouldnt have any problem with it :-)

Matajis may or may not have problem with it but a lot of men certainly have a problem with it :)

Some devotees object because Prabhupada considered Mother respectful enough. But Prabhupadas mood was to give them respect. I am sure some woman like it as it makes them feel respected and valued in the association of devotees more so than what the term mataji means to them. Is that their fault or the fault or is it the fault of the society for women to feel that being a "mataji" is not enough honor. Actually if we are calling them mataji then they should feel honored, but probably many dont. We should find the solution to that problem first rather than the symptom of calling mothers prabhu.

wow, this response came out well, didnt have that planned :0)

what Anupata said was also what I heard. In Radhadesh my mother was also referred as prabhuji. But with prabhu they greet the Supersoul and not this body...

Amalagaura has a point with what the term mataji means these days. It has unfortunately almost become a demeaning term. "Mataji" is almost a stamp for a second class citizen. Sad, but often true.

I know many female devotees who are so advanced and realized in KC. I spontaniously often add the prabhu to their name. I just simply feel so much respect for them. Same goes for male devotees I respect.

Yes, same here. Ive been called both, and I dont mind either. But normally I would prefer "Mataji".

Srila Prabhupada explained to call everyone prabhu including the women. Call everyone prabhu but always think of oneself as servant.

>>Srila Prabhupada explained to call everyone prabhu including the women. Call everyone prabhu but always think of oneself >>as servant.

Care to provide some evidence? Infact, I will tell you for sure Srila prabhupada never said, "call mothers as prabhu". If he had there would have been no debate. Mataji is a very respectful address. If someone has a problem with that, then somethign is wrong somewhere. That however does not mean that one wrong can be fixed with another wrong. Where in shastra is a mata called as prabhu? Why so much of hunger for false power and false respect?

There are several incidents where Srila Prabhupada addresses his female disciples as "prabhu", one that I can remember offhand is Prabhupada addressing Malati devi dasi as Malati prabhu. I remember distinctly reading Prabhupada saying to address everyone as prabhu and think of oneself as servant. Look in the letters section of the folio and you will find it.

Here are a few:

"Yes, to call one another prabhu is all right, but not to become prabhu. To accept others as prabhu, and remain as servant is the idea. But, because somebody is calling you prabhu, one should not become a prabhu, and treat others as servants. In other words, everyone should feel himself as servant, and not think himself prabhu because he is being called prabhu. This will make the relationship congenial." (Letter to Himavati Devi Dasi, June 14, 1968)

"The Lord Caitanya is called Mahaprabhu. Mahan-prabhu. Prabhu, master. There are different kinds of master, but Hes the mahan-prabhu, the Supreme Master, Supreme Master, and Purusa at the same time. Prabhu, you can say. . . . A woman also can become the master. . . "(Cc Adi 7.108 lecture February 18, 1967)

Another thing that I have heard from many devotees is that initilly SP did not speak strictly on varnasrama related issues as he was dealing with hippies. Both these quotes are in sixtees. SPs strong statements on women and all other issues were made in 70s generally speaking. So, one must also consider this point in making an evaluation. Especially because there are 200 odd quotes where he says matas must be called as matajis. Mata is a very respectful address. Why does some people dont get it or not want to get it?

hey prabhu!, bring me some more kitri.

translation:
hey master, bring me some more kitri

does "Prabhu" really mean master anymore?

If matajis demand Prabhu because of respect they better look for another term.

in my experience "prabhu" has pretty much lost its meaning. you call everyone, at least every male devotee "prabhu," never mind if you really respect them as superior, if you really would accept their advice or instructon. i dont like using stereotypes like this, but not to would be conceived as an offense - which is worse than using meaningless stereotypes.

regarding calling female devotees "prabhu," i remember (from reading about him) that sripa prabhupada did call malati mataji "prabhu" on at least one occasion. i dont know what that occasion was, but i very much suspect it was to explain to an audience that was used to listen to male devotees that women are, on a spiritual level, as good and qualified to speak as men.

generally, what ive seen in his books and correspondence, he used to call women "mataji" - and im not aware of any instruction to call all devotees, male or female, "prabhu." the quotes mentioned above (hari bhakta das) do not refer to women in particular.

the tendency in some circles to address all women devotees as "prabhu" appears to me the expression of some pendulum-movement: after many male prabhus used statements found in manu samhita and other vedic scriptures to demand, often unjustified, obedience and service from lady devotees, some type of womens lib evolved within ISKCON, a sort of self defense.

sastra is clear that _generally_ women are less intelligent and supposed to be subservient to men - but these statements were coined in vedic times, and even then there were exceptions to this rule. nowadays circumstances are very much different, and exceptions from vedic standards are the rule.

it doesnt matter if many women are more intelligent than they used to be, or if men have become, as a rule, less intelligent than should be expected. we have to deal with the circumstances we find, and if women are better suited for occupations and services that were traditionally performed by men, we should accept that. whatever works best, for krsnas service.

still i dont like the practice of calling ladies "prabhu" and avoid it whenever i can (without offending). most of our vaisnava practices dont focus on the present, but on the ideal we hope to achieve. (like calling each other prabhu": i may not respect you very much now, but i hope to become really humble and be able to, eventually ...).

calling both sexe "prabhu" seems to reflect the desire that there shouldht be any distinction - but there is. womens bodies and minds are different in many ways, and even if you find many ladies today who are better able to perform male occupations than the men around, that isnt the ideal situation. IMO a really intelligent lady would be happy to have a male around who could do the managing or fighting, and concentrate on raising the kids, or similar things, instead.

ys phani.

Hare Krishna Prabhus and MATAJIS !

I think this is one of the hot topic for which I had debated in the past with some devotee friends of mine. I dont mean to offend anyone here but want to express that I have asked this question to many senior Srila Prabhupada disciples and Gurus of ISKCON and they all feel that women should be addressed as Mothers that is Matajis and NOT "Prabhus".

This trend is becoming a standard in ISKCON like others calling "Guru Puja" as "Guru Pooj" and "Mangala Aarti" as "Mangals"

Personally I would call a women with great respect as Mother or Mataji if she is elder to me.

Just my two cents.

prabhu sounds quite masculine anyway.

you should call them mataji even if they are younger or you may marry some of them hahaha

I meant to say in general that I will call all the women Mataji specially who are elder to me.

I prefer to be called Prabhuji rather than Prabhu :P just kidding!!!

Naaa, I wouldnt want to be called prabhu, though it has happened on occasion, and it was by a sannyasi. Probably it just came out of his mouth because was used to dealing with prabhus. Trouble with me is, i dont like being called Mother either. i tolerate Mataji, and Mata can be sweet sometimes, but i really like being called by my own guru-given name. I immediately respond to my own name and feel warm towards the other person because it is personal. These formal titles really grate on me. How often does it happen that someone calls out, "Mataji?" and several women turn around t find out if its you or not. Must happen with prabhus too. It so often becomes impersonal. It can be used in an insulting tone too. There is a lot in the way it is spoken.
Another thing, women can be called Mataji or Prabhu. Prabhus cant be called Mataji. Cant it be flexible, depending on the mood and situation?

We must follow Prabhupadas example and call everyone by their name and if in formal situation such as introduction to a book would address them as Srimate xxx Dasi or Srimate xxx Devi Dasi. Same with man, by adding das Adhikari/Brahmacari instead of devi Dasi. That how Prabhupada would do it.

Prabhupada would not call EVER ladies as Matajis (in plural). He would in mere two instances use word Mataji to his disciples in singular.

Nor ladies nor man should expect or want to be called Prabhus. If a man expects this he is worse then a lady, because he thinks that just by being male he should become the Lord.

While if addressing a number of devotees one should use plural Prabhus, as per Prabhupadas example. He also would use it in correspondence towards lady devotees, so there is no harm in using it in this way. One must strongly oppose Indianization of ISKCON, where a man expects to be addressed as Prabhu and thinks its male.

In SPs letters and correspondence mataji appears 21 times, both for outsiders and his disciples.

One shouldnt call ones mother and father by name. Thats a Vedic custom followed even in Europe. I couldnt imagine calling my parents by name.

Yes, Prabhupada on 2 occasions used word Mataji to one of his disciples, but mostly not. In fact in his letters for ladies there are more examples of using Prabhu then these two occasions of Mataji in letters to Himavati. He never used is Matajis (in plural) and only once "mothers" in a letter. That should give some idea, and of course he did not type the letters.

Here is an account on Prabhupadas use of the term from his servant Srutakirti:

<<My experience is as follows.

I went into Srila Prabhupadas room thousands of times when he rang his bell.
Usually he would ask me to get someone. It was generally done in the most informal way, such as: Get Tamal, call Karandhara, get me Pradyumna, call Malati, call Yamuna. He didnt say Prabhu, Maharaja, Goswami, or Mataji or dasa or dasi for that matter. There were a few exceptions which were common sense. He would say call Govinda DASI. That came off his tongue automatically just like it does for most of us. He didnt ask for Govinda mataji, or Govinda prabhu which would have been confusing.

In more formal settings, particularly in the temple room He would refer to someone by saying our Trikrama Maharaja, Visnujana Maharaja, Karandhara prabhu, Kirtanananda Maharaja, etc. For Pradyumna he had a special name and sometimes referred to him as Panditji.

When I was with Srila Prabhupada in India in 1972 sometimes in the temple rooms he would ask different disciples to speak or lead kirtan. He would ask both male and female disciples saying, Yamuna prabhu you can lead kirtan, Malati prabhu, you can speak something.

In writing letters to his female disciples sometimes he addressed them My dear daughter. It was natural, they were in their teens or early twenties. I dont ever remember Srila Prabhupada calling his female disciples mataji.

When I was in his presence he never addressed me as Srutakirti prabhu or Srutakirti das. Once,when I was a brahmacari I entered his room in LA, he said, So, Srutakirti Maharaja, how do you like it here in New Dwarka? When I was a grhastha in Mayapur he once asked me in his room, So, Srutakirti Maharaja, how do you like it here in Mayapur? Both times he had a beautiful smile on his face.

At the end of Vedas comment he wrote: "One shouldnt call ones mother and father by name. Thats a Vedic custom followed even in Europe. I couldnt imagine calling my parents by name."

This applies in vaisnava-grhastha life also that the wife doesnt mention her husbands name. I dont know how prevalent it is in Iskcon, but I know a few couples where the wife refers to her husband as "my prabhu". It always divides my mind in two when I hear it because on the one hand, the wife should see her husband as guru (traditional), and at the same time, the whole question of giving up I and mine. Bhaktivinode Thakur sings a lot about the i and mine of grha life, my wife, my husband, my house, bank balance, my son, my daughter. . . all this belongs to You, O Lord, etc.
In this connection also in part of a darshan:

Devotee: When people ask me, "Why is God a male?" how do I answer this?
Gour Govinda Swami: Because he is enjoyer. Purusa means enjoyer.
Devotee: How do I explain it to common people?
Gour Govinda Swami: Male is enjoyer. Female is not enjoyer. Female is to be enjoyed, she is to be enjoyed. But male is the enjoyer. Krishna is the only male. Nobody is male. Jiva means female, stri-linga. Prakrti is feminine.

Vallabhacharya asked that question to Adwaita Acharya. '93Krishna is the only male, Krishna is the only husband, and jivas are all feminine, that means wives. If a devoted wife never utters the name of the husband then how will the jivas utter the name of the husband Krishna?'94 Adwaita Acharya said, '93Rather than asking me you should ask Mahaprabhu. Hell answer. '93 Then he asked Mahaprabhu. Mahaprabhu said, '93She is a devoted wife who does what her husband asks. Her husband says, '91Utter my name.'92 So a devoted wife does so, she utters Krishna.'94 Mahaprabhu gave that answer.

"...if women are better suited for occupations and services that were traditionally performed by men, we should accept that. whatever works best, for krsnas service."

How does that reconcile with the following statement by Krishna?

"It is better to engage in ones own occupation, even though one may perform it imperfectly, than to accept anothers occupation and perform it perfectly. Duties prescribed according to ones nature are never affected by sinful reactions." Bg 18.47

In practice, when women have the idea that they should do what is traditionally mens work if they can do a better job, we get excessive interaction between unmarried men and women, which in many cases leads to marital infidelity and other kinds of illicit sex. In my career I work at an office in a section where more of my peers are women than men, and the result is that in this environment Im forced to spend more time with these women than with my wife. Fortunately I have a very satisfying marriage, but its easy to see how this kind of environment can lead to flirtatious behaviors and more.

In the matter of mother or prabhu, personally I cannot recall any time when I have referred to a woman as "Prabhu," though when Im at my best Im thinking of any devotee whether male or female as my superior. As I understand it, Srila Prabhupada predominantly advised that men address or refer to women as mataji or mother. I have occasionally addressed women as prabhavi, but after a little experimentation with that I concluded that it is better to simply do as Srila Prabhupada advised. If there is a question of whether to follow what Srila Prabhupada himself did or to follow his directions for what to do, following his instruction is better.

When I address women as mother, I say, for example Mother Kunti, not simply "mother," unless I dont know her name, in which case I would say, "Mother, Im sorry I dont know your name," giving her the option to tell me or not. If she does tell me, then I would then address her properly. Since we are mostly speaking in English with Sanskrit words or names inserted, it seems more natural to me to say "Mother Kunti," rather than "Kunti Mataji." I dont know what it would be like to speak conversational Sanskrit.

With regard to men, it seems that in practice devotees normally address each other as, for example, Narada Prabhu unless there is a feeling of contempt, in which case it becomes "Narada Dasa." Although I want to think of myself as the servant of Vaishnavas, I would still prefer to be referred to with the title Prabhu because it indicates some affection. Typically devotees seem to call each other "Narada Dasa" as a way of saying, "I dont respect you very much." While the ideal is that I should be humble, it is more important to me to know that devotees are pleased with me and see me affectionately. Also, Im very reluctant to think of myself master of other devotees, but I do very much want to achieve mastery over the teachings that Srila Prabhupada has given, for that is the best way I know to become his good servant.

Getting a little off topic here... One thing is that I see humility a little differently than is the conventional understanding. For example, to boldly preach the message of the spiritual master, challenging anyone to defeat it, is my ideal of humility. It indicates strong faith in and surrender to the spiritual master, which is much better than everyone having their own ideas and holding a "to each his own" kind of philosophy, although most people would consider the latter more humble.

At least thats how I see it, for what its worth.