Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

[quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite]Since I am told that, being spirit, I am not the body, which is material, how is that activities performed by the body - namely all the religious pious practices required by some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON, have any impact on me.
How can achieving something material like a brahamincal varna, actually purify me? It seems just as likely to flatter my ego than lead me to spiritual awakening.[/quote]
The pious activities will have absolutely no impact on you. Brahminical varna can not purify you, you are not the brahmana, do not even consider it for yourself, its for others. kirata huna andhra pulinda pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite][quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite]Since I am told that, being spirit, I am not the body, which is material, how is that activities performed by the body - namely all the religious pious practices required by some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON, have any impact on me.
How can achieving something material like a brahamincal varna, actually purify me? It seems just as likely to flatter my ego than lead me to spiritual awakening.[/quote]
The pious activities will have absolutely no impact on you. Brahminical varna can not purify you, you are not the brahmana, do not even consider it for yourself, its for others. kirata huna andhra pulinda pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah.[/quote]
How philosophical, in the form of a personal attack and how brahminical. Of course you completely sidestepped the question, probably because you dont have an answer.

[quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite]Since I am told that, being spirit, I am not the body, which is material, how is that activities performed by the body - namely all the religious pious practices required by some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON, have any impact on me.
How can achieving something material like a brahamincal varna, actually purify me? It seems just as likely to flatter my ego than lead me to spiritual awakening.[/quote]

If you approach developing vaisnava qualities as something that flatters your ego, then this may be exactly what Krsna will give you. Brahminical varna, just like any other thing of this world, can be material, or it can be spiritual, depends on which way you approach it and use it.

[quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite][quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite]Since I am told that, being spirit, I am not the body, which is material, how is that activities performed by the body - namely all the religious pious practices required by some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON, have any impact on me.
How can achieving something material like a brahamincal varna, actually purify me? It seems just as likely to flatter my ego than lead me to spiritual awakening.[/quote]

If you approach developing vaisnava qualities as something that flatters your ego, then this may be exactly what Krsna will give you. Brahminical varna, just like any other thing of this world, can be material, or it can be spiritual, depends on which way you approach it and use it.[/quote]
Could you elaborate how something material can be spiritual?

[quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite][quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite][quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite]Since I am told that, being spirit, I am not the body, which is material, how is that activities performed by the body - namely all the religious pious practices required by some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON, have any impact on me.
How can achieving something material like a brahamincal varna, actually purify me? It seems just as likely to flatter my ego than lead me to spiritual awakening.[/quote]

If you approach developing vaisnava qualities as something that flatters your ego, then this may be exactly what Krsna will give you. Brahminical varna, just like any other thing of this world, can be material, or it can be spiritual, depends on which way you approach it and use it.[/quote]
Could you elaborate how something material can be spiritual?http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/member.php?u=7724[/quote]
I would not spend time doing it if I was you, since for cbrahma that what you will say will be material and whatever he will reply to you will be spiritual. I guess he is just pretending to ask a question, but actually wants to answer it himself:-) Honest.

[quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite][quote][cite] ccd:[/cite][quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite]Since I am told that, being spirit, I am not the body, which is material, how is that activities performed by the body - namely all the religious pious practices required by some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON, have any impact on me.
How can achieving something material like a brahamincal varna, actually purify me? It seems just as likely to flatter my ego than lead me to spiritual awakening.[/quote]
The pious activities will have absolutely no impact on you. Brahminical varna can not purify you, you are not the brahmana, do not even consider it for yourself, its for others. kirata huna andhra pulinda pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah.[/quote]
How philosophical, in the form of a personal attack and how brahminical. Of course you completely sidestepped the question, probably because you dont have an answer.[/quote]
I bet its the right answer for you. You do not need pious activities, you have already realized that you have nothing to do with this world. You seem to suggest that fruit flower or tulsi leaf, offered to the deity remain material. We accept them as spiritual, so you must start your own movement and do not disturb "some Vaisnava traditions like ISKCON" with your transcendent doubts.

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Brahminical varna, just like any other thing of this world, can be material, or it can be spiritual, depends on which way you approach it and use it.[/quote]
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cbrahma: Could you elaborate how something material can be spiritual?[/quote]
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Yes, of course. Please accept this.

=========
Srila Prabhupada. If you continue in Krsna consciousness, you will see that nothing is material. When you offer a flower to Krsna, it is not material. Krsna will not accept anything material. And this does not mean that the flower is material on the bush, and then it becomes spiritual when you offer it to Krsna. No. The flower is "material" only as long as you think that it is made for your enjoyment. But as soon as you see that it is for Krsnas enjoyment, you see it as it really is -- spiritual.
Dr. Singh. So the entire world is actually spiritual?
Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Therefore, we want to engage everything in Krsnas service; that is the spiritual world.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Everything Is Spiritual
==========

[quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite]--------
Brahminical varna, just like any other thing of this world, can be material, or it can be spiritual, depends on which way you approach it and use it.[/quote]
--------
cbrahma: Could you elaborate how something material can be spiritual?[/quote]
---------

Yes, of course. Please accept this.

=========
Srila Prabhupada. If you continue in Krsna consciousness, you will see that nothing is material. When you offer a flower to Krsna, it is not material. Krsna will not accept anything material. And this does not mean that the flower is material on the bush, and then it becomes spiritual when you offer it to Krsna. No. The flower is "material" only as long as you think that it is made for your enjoyment. But as soon as you see that it is for Krsnas enjoyment, you see it as it really is -- spiritual.
Dr. Singh. So the entire world is actually spiritual?
Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Therefore, we want to engage everything in Krsnas service; that is the spiritual world.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Everything Is Spiritual
==========[/quote]
so this is a clarification of how material is spiritual - everything is spiritual - provided one sees its relationship with Krsna - that must override the necessity of varna-ashrma dharma - service is all that is needed, with or without varna or asrama. That would also imply that bhakti transcends such practices and designations.

cbrahma: That would also imply that bhakti transcends such practices and designations.
========

Yes, exactly. If one is on the level of bhakti, one need not worry about varnasrama and all that "lower stuff" of this world.

But if one is not on level, where Krsna wants to see him around, then one needs to work in that direction. Developing vaisnava qualities is requirement to attract attention of Krsna. Brahminical qualities are a good step towards vaisnava qualities.

[quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite]cbrahma: That would also imply that bhakti transcends such practices and designations.
========

Yes, exactly. If one is on the level of bhakti, one need not worry about varnasrama and all that "lower stuff" of this world.

But if one is not on level, where Krsna wants to see him around, then one needs to work in that direction. Developing vaisnava qualities is requirement to attract attention of Krsna. Brahminical qualities are a good step towards vaisnava qualities.[/quote]

Now were back to levels and material mechanisms of approach to the spiritual - which was my original question - that a material bodily activity and designation must by virtue of being material be incapable of producing a spiritual effect.
The answer is that everything is spiritual under the conditions of bhakti.
And now youre saying bhakti is conditional on some material varna. It seems an insoluble paradox.

[quote][cite]Prabhupada[/cite]Though a person be even the most sinful man, he can at once be purified by sys-tematic contact with a pure Vaisnava. A Vaisnava, therefore, can accept a bona fide disciple from any part of the world without any consideration of caste and creed and promote him by regulative principles to the status of a pure Vaisnava who is transcendental to brahminical culture. The system of caste, or varnasrama-dharma, is no longer regular even amongst the so-called followers of the system. Nor is it now possible to re-establish the institutional function in the present context of social, political and economic revolution. Without any reference to the particular custom of a country, one can be accepted to the Vaisnava cult spiritually, and there is no hindrance in the transcendental process.

(Bhag. 2.4.18, purport)
[/quote]

Yes, cbrahma, I see what you mean. You are right.