Is Gaudiya-Vaisnavism merely Hinduized Christianity?
Philosophy · asked by user [] · 2008-12-31 · 13 answers
[quote][cite] Prof. M. M. Ninan [/cite]
It is evident therefore that the early Vedic religion underwent a drastic change during the period following the 2nd c, which culminated, into the various vedantic teachings, which we know today as Hinduism.
The major political influence of the period soon before the period was the invasions of Greek. Alexander the great
The invasion did succeed to a certain extent. Seleucidan kingdom was established in part of India that was conquered. Subsequently, several Greek kingdoms came into existence in the Punjab/Multan/Afghan regions. One of the most famous Greek kings was Menander. Menander was scholar in Buddhism. Greek and Indian art fused and gave rise to a new art form called Gandara. It was the Greeks (philosophical form by Plato and the Pythagoreans) who first introduced the idea of reincarnation to India. It does not appear in the earliest Hindu scriptures (the Rig Veda) but was developed at a later period in the Upanishads under the Greek influence.
Though each of the schools of Vedanta claim heritage from Godhead himself and claims its parampara through rshi tradition to manava parampara, the real exposition are found only in the Acharyas who lived in the period later than 7th c AD. Here are the founders of the Theistic schools of Vedanta and their approximate times:
Sankara 788 '96820 Advaita '96 Monism (Born in Kaladi, Kerala)
Ramanuja 1017-1137 Visistadvaita the Modified Non-dualist school. (Ramanuja (also known as Ilaya Perumal) was born to Kesava Perumal Somayaji Dikhsitar and Kanthimathi Ammal at Sriperum pudur. He was born in Kaliyuga year 4119 which corresponds to1017 AD)
Madhva (Ananda Tirtha) 1197-1273 Dvaita the Dualist school.
Nimbarka late C13? (Nimbarka was born of Aruna Muni and Jayanti Devi on the banks of Godavari river) Dvaitadvaita the Dualist-non-dualist school.
Vallabha 1478-1530 Shudda Advaita- the Pure Advaita school.
Caitanya 1485-1533 followed by Baladeva early 18thc: AcintyaBhedabheda - Incomprehensible Distinction-Non-distinctionism
[/quote]
It appears that in reality there has been a cross-pollination of Gnostic Christianity and polytheistic Dravidian Vedic culture.
It is interesting in this regard that Christianity is patronized as a less advanced tamasic religion by GVs. But their claim that their tradition is purely Vedic seems suspect, in historical perpective.
It is evident therefore that the early Vedic religion underwent a drastic change during the period following the 2nd c, which culminated, into the various vedantic teachings, which we know today as Hinduism.
The major political influence of the period soon before the period was the invasions of Greek. Alexander the great
The invasion did succeed to a certain extent. Seleucidan kingdom was established in part of India that was conquered. Subsequently, several Greek kingdoms came into existence in the Punjab/Multan/Afghan regions. One of the most famous Greek kings was Menander. Menander was scholar in Buddhism. Greek and Indian art fused and gave rise to a new art form called Gandara. It was the Greeks (philosophical form by Plato and the Pythagoreans) who first introduced the idea of reincarnation to India. It does not appear in the earliest Hindu scriptures (the Rig Veda) but was developed at a later period in the Upanishads under the Greek influence.
Though each of the schools of Vedanta claim heritage from Godhead himself and claims its parampara through rshi tradition to manava parampara, the real exposition are found only in the Acharyas who lived in the period later than 7th c AD. Here are the founders of the Theistic schools of Vedanta and their approximate times:
Sankara 788 '96820 Advaita '96 Monism (Born in Kaladi, Kerala)
Ramanuja 1017-1137 Visistadvaita the Modified Non-dualist school. (Ramanuja (also known as Ilaya Perumal) was born to Kesava Perumal Somayaji Dikhsitar and Kanthimathi Ammal at Sriperum pudur. He was born in Kaliyuga year 4119 which corresponds to1017 AD)
Madhva (Ananda Tirtha) 1197-1273 Dvaita the Dualist school.
Nimbarka late C13? (Nimbarka was born of Aruna Muni and Jayanti Devi on the banks of Godavari river) Dvaitadvaita the Dualist-non-dualist school.
Vallabha 1478-1530 Shudda Advaita- the Pure Advaita school.
Caitanya 1485-1533 followed by Baladeva early 18thc: AcintyaBhedabheda - Incomprehensible Distinction-Non-distinctionism
[/quote]
It appears that in reality there has been a cross-pollination of Gnostic Christianity and polytheistic Dravidian Vedic culture.
It is interesting in this regard that Christianity is patronized as a less advanced tamasic religion by GVs. But their claim that their tradition is purely Vedic seems suspect, in historical perpective.
user [265] · 2008-12-31
Ninan is yet another Christian crusader, and his pet theory is that Hinduism emerged from Christianity.user [350] · 2008-12-31
[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]Ninan is yet another Christian crusader, and his pet theory is that Hinduism emerged from Christianity.[/quote]An ad hominem dismissal.
He is hardly a crusader or even avid Christian. He is not the only historian who presents this idea, being well founded in historical events.
user [1] · 2008-12-31
this is not a question and will be deleted. Pariprashnena is not to present your own views as if it were a question. Please read the terms of service of this website.user [38] · 2009-01-01
Hes a crusader. His website www._oration._com/_~mm_9n/ (to see remove _ ) has plenty of proofs - attacks on hinduism and glories of Christianity. Are you his fan?user [2] · 2009-01-01
[quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite][quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]Ninan is yet another Christian crusader, and his pet theory is that Hinduism emerged from Christianity.[/quote]An ad hominem dismissal.
He is hardly a crusader or even avid Christian. He is not the only historian who presents this idea, being well founded in historical events.[/quote]
I just saw his website.... Pfiuuuuuu.
Maybe you have to readdress your research methods, cbrahma. :)
user [265] · 2009-01-01
[quote][cite] Prof. M. M. Ninan [/cite] One of the most famous Greek kings was Menander. Menander was scholar in Buddhism. Greek and Indian art fused and gave rise to a new art form called Gandara. It was the Greeks (philosophical form by Plato and the Pythagoreans) who first introduced the idea of reincarnation to India. It does not appear in the earliest Hindu scriptures (the Rig Veda) but was developed at a later period in the Upanishads under the Greek influence. [/quote]That is total hogwash. Upanishads and Puranas were present in their complete form well before the emergence of Buddhism. And the idea that Upanishads were influenced by Greek thought is just as bogus - even their philosophical language shows no traces of Greek influence. Compare that with the use of Sanskrit in the English translations of our books.
Being a crusader always influences ones scholarship. Ninan is certainly no exception.
user [350] · 2009-01-01
[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Hes a crusader. His website www._oration._com/_~mm_9n/ (to see remove _ ) has plenty of proofs - attacks on hinduism and glories of Christianity. Are you his fan?[/quote]You went to the web site - wow. Did you read his treatise? Because he quotes non-christian and even anti-christian. Plenty of proofs doesnt make him a crusader. If hes right , and he his , he would have every reason to be.
user [350] · 2009-01-01
[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite][quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite][quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]Ninan is yet another Christian crusader, and his pet theory is that Hinduism emerged from Christianity.[/quote]An ad hominem dismissal.
He is hardly a crusader or even avid Christian. He is not the only historian who presents this idea, being well founded in historical events.[/quote]
I just saw his website.... Pfiuuuuuu.
Maybe you have to readdress your research methods, cbrahma. :)[/quote]
What are yours? Going to websites? I actually read his treatise. And his case is made very methodically and logically with a lot of historical support.
user [350] · 2009-01-01
[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite][quote][cite] Prof. M. M. Ninan [/cite] One of the most famous Greek kings was Menander. Menander was scholar in Buddhism. Greek and Indian art fused and gave rise to a new art form called Gandara. It was the Greeks (philosophical form by Plato and the Pythagoreans) who first introduced the idea of reincarnation to India. It does not appear in the earliest Hindu scriptures (the Rig Veda) but was developed at a later period in the Upanishads under the Greek influence. [/quote]That is total hogwash. Upanishads and Puranas were present in their complete form well before the emergence of Buddhism. And the idea that Upanishads were influenced by Greek thought is just as bogus - even their philosophical language shows no traces of Greek influence. Compare that with the use of Sanskrit in the English translations of our books.
Being a crusader always influences ones scholarship. Ninan is certainly no exception.[/quote]
Your characterization that he is a crusader is self-serving ad hominem. His approach is level headed and even.
Being an avid Hindu would influence your rejection of the scholarship. Quid pro quo. Acutally you should read the treatise. He quotes anti-Christian texts as well. Many historians accept the Hellenistic influence at the time - Aryan invasion etc..
Ive always observed that the philosophy has strong affinities with Christian theology - but in a heretical Gnostic way.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Jm7MDDJUBIUC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=Christian+%22influence+on+Hinduism%22&source=web&ots=LQcLjEk-bf&sig=SY8eXcn1fMLvpfz_ogFl5ABB8yQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPP1,M1
http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1553&C=1366
http://books.google.com/books?id=hMPYnfS_R90C&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=Historical+dates+Puranas+Sanskrit&source=web&ots=bkqSWSHQiZ&sig=To-FlKLv6mAUNjt48WAxqiTzEtA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA34,M1
Above are several concurring sources which undermines your crusader campaign that Ninan is some kind of rogue Christian scholar.
But then you dont have any substantive arguments - so you have to speculate on the character of the author. - ad hominem.
"The first evidence of classical Sanskrit is attested by an inscription dating around A.D.150 in the Brahmi script."
http://www.appiusforum.com/sanskrit.html
user [2] · 2009-01-01
your resource material is based on the very same thing you seem to avoid. Just look at the crosses all over that site, and you can start thinking about one word: bias.There is a huge book all about proving the no-existence of Jesus. You can do that about any subject, that is the very nature of ascending knowledge. Your tendencies make you go that way. I choose to adapt my criteria to descending knowledge. You will call me fanatical and I will call you puffed up. Good luck to all of us.
user [38] · 2009-01-01
It took you quite some time to show who you are - an anti-hindu missionary.Patanjali in CE? Oh, I see the Appius site is of the same missionary vein. No wonder then.
Heliodorus pillar with Brahmi scripts and other Krishna-related script artifacts avoided? Early date for Adi Shankara as well? Etc.
Recent news:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Chennai/New_finds_take_archaeologists_closer_to_Krishna/articleshow/3898205.cms
And this is also interesting:
http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/library/Antiquity_of_Bhagavatam_MA_thesis_summary.zip
user [23] · 2009-01-03
[quote][cite] cbrahma:[/cite][quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Hes a crusader. His website www._oration._com/_~mm_9n/ (to see remove _ ) has plenty of proofs - attacks on hinduism and glories of Christianity. Are you his fan?[/quote]You went to the web site - wow. Did you read his treatise? Because he quotes non-christian and even anti-christian. Plenty of proofs doesnt make him a crusader. If hes right , and he his , he would have every reason to be.[/quote]
I just wasted about 20 minutes of my life looking Mr. Ninans site. I dont care who he quotes to support his speculative theories. Why should we take interest in another so-called scholar trying to make a name for himself minimizing the importance of the Vedic tradition? If you like him, thats your business; but if you want to express your appreciation of his theories, then I think you should do it somewhere else. Here, its offensive.
user [154] · 2009-01-04
It is not a new theory to suggest that worship of Krishna is resulting from Christianity. The only problem is archeology - clearly worship of Vaasudeva, the supreme God, pre-dates Christianity. So the opposite is correct, Christianity is a borrowed sentiment added to Judaism, e.g. non-violent, sattvic offerings at the altar instead of tamasic bloody offerings of the pagan/demigod style worship of Judaism. Obviously hard time explaining it to Christians.