Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

I have a similar pic. Imho, its a question for Deity Worship Minister.

Some devotees objected when Mayapur Radha Madhava were dressed in kimonos.

Some time ago there was an uproar in Vrindavan when Bankibihari was dressed in T-shirt, jeans and held a cell phone. The temple apologized.

Just think about what Srila Prabhupada would say.... Probably "bogus"

[quote][cite] diyourself:[/cite]Just think about what Srila Prabhupada would say.... Probably "bogus"[/quote]

Isnt this rasa bhasa?

This is portraying Lord Krishna in a pastime that He did not perform. Little snowmen and santa outfit - bhaa!

The colors however are beautiful and Radhas dress is gorgeous but the santa outfit is just wrong.

...the look very nice except fot the santa claus hat on Krishna.

This is no doubt Rasa basa.....

Rasa basa defiitions I found:
"conflicting to the flavor He incarnated specifically to taste"
"inappropriate mixing of incongruous spiritual moods"

'bfSanta Claus included?

Well, we may think Santa outfit is rasabhasa, but we are small devotees, what do we know..... Big, stalwart devotees, like GBC representatives, can display broader understanding od santa. Look this explanation of Kavicandra Maharaja: http://www.matchlessgifts.org.uk/gallerysanta.html

Devotee is santa. Brahma-samhita says,

premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

So, santa means devotee. Therefore it is ok for devotees to dress as Santa Claus, bhakta Claus. It is bonafide.

The only debatable thing is, whether it is ok to dress the Lord into devotee (santa) outfit. But bhakta Claus is really special devotee, stalwart personality, so if rule be broken, then it is only befitting to break it with Santa Claus.

OK, enough joking. As I see this Santa outfit, it is just another ISKCON "we use it all for preaching", and "we will shamelessly do anything in order to blend". I guess, such outfits have some place in western culture, in some westernized temples. It is not that everybody wants the highest thing. Most people just want to have fun, some Krsna fun, keeping Krsna in the "center", and convincing them to keep coming to temples year after year is tough. And ISKCON temple is what we make it to be - it all depends on sincerity of those who run the temple.

Srila Prabhupada said:
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One can understand about God only in association of devotees. Therefore we are advocating this Krsna consciousness movement, society. Actually, youll find, one who comes to this society, by associating a few days, a few weeks, he becomes conscious and he comes forward for initiation and further advancement. So this association is very important. And the, those who are conducting different centers and temples, they should be very responsible men. Because everything will depend on their sincere activities and character. If they are insincere, then that will not be effective. One may come and associate with us, but if we are insincere, then it will be not be effective. But if the devotees are sincere, anyone who will come in contact with a devotee, hell change. That is the secret.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Purport to Gaura Pahu -- Los Angeles, January 10, 1969
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Everything depends on result. Yukta-vairagya?

Above picture is from Hungarian farm, New Vraja Dhama. Sivarama Swami is completely in charge there. They worship Shiva daily too, so.... I dont know, maybe they are doing something wrong, maybe Sivarama Swami is loosing control or he himself is going off-track, .... Material success sure is sweet, millions of dollars, we sell a bit to maya, and maya rewards. Who knows. Time will show.

One thing is for sure, I would never dress deities like this, it is just distasteful. It breaks my heart. It is like dressing Krsna in Sponge Bob outfit, or Garfield, or Mickey Mouse, or Batman, Superman, Spiderman...... Did you notice stuffed snowman near Krshnas feet? What is this nonsense?

Lord Krsna is most certainly not a chubby, old guy with a grey beard... what were they thinking?
I will not even mention how offensive it is to think of Srimati Radhika as Mrs. Claus...

[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]Lord Krsna is most certainly not a chubby, old guy with a grey beard... what were they thinking?
I will not even mention how offensive it is to think of Srimati Radhika as Mrs. Claus...[/quote]

Thank you!! I was thinking about this picture last night. I do not recall Snowmen ever being mentioned in any of the books I have read of Lord Krishnas pastimes.

I am searching for a quote of Prabhupada. I seem to remember him saying something about the offense of making up pastimes for Lord Krishna.

[quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite]
Above picture is from Hungarian farm, New Vraja Dhama. Sivarama Swami is completely in charge there. They worship Shiva daily too, so.... I dont know, maybe they are doing something wrong, maybe Sivarama Swami is loosing control or he himself is going off-track, .... [/quote]

With so many of our leaders it is the same old story: they surround themselves with yes-men only, their own disciples or just plain out brown-nosers. They do not like to hear the truth or critical analysis - they only like applause. So there is nobody to catch them when they first start getting off track... and by the time they are really in deep maya and everyone notices, it is usually too late.

And btw... where is the Ministry of Deity Worship when you need them?

This is an old picture. I heard from a friend that the GBC told them not to use this outfit, and they dont. So its not really an up-to-date "controversy".

Looking at it without thinking "Santa Claus", it looks like a nice red outift, especially Srimati Radharanis dress. It may be because it reminds people of another parallel culture that they are familiar with that it draws such a strong emotional response.

As a parallel, there are a number of popular kirtan tunes in ISKCON that are actually the melodies of songs from Indian movies. If you havent seen the movie you dont think anything of it, but imagine kirtan chanted to the tune of the theme music of Star Wars. Probably devotees would object then, because it activates some cultural memory.

Another way of looking at it is that Krishna Consciousness is being absorbed into the other cultures of the world. Srila Prabhupada gave names such as Radha-Parisisvara and Radha-Londonisvara to ISKCON Deities.

It is inevitable that the culture expression of Krishna Consciousness will change over time - indeed it already has. Just listen to the difference in kirtan style between SBBSTs Gaudiya Math and ISKCON.

[quote][cite] sitapati:[/cite]Looking at it without thinking "Santa Claus", it looks like a nice red outift, especially Srimati Radharanis dress. It may be because it reminds people of another parallel culture that they are familiar with that it draws such a strong emotional response.[/quote]
The hat is a bit of a giveaway ;-)

sitapati said: It is inevitable that the culture expression of Krishna Consciousness will change over time - indeed it already has. Just listen to the difference in kirtan style between SBBSTs Gaudiya Math and ISKCON.
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So, New Vrndavan & Kirtanananda were moving in right direction by inventing christian robes and singing in english? If it is inevitable, then why fight against it? Eventually ISKCON will realize, that Kirtananada was right? Sitapati, something doesnt feel right with your statement. But you may be right. Who knows what will become of ISKCON.... If we invent it as we go, anything can come out.

...any predictions for when the robes and english mantras come back?

Might it just be said the devotees just gave into some festive mood without the real imagination needed??

If it went down the way i would of wanted it will be that the ORIGINAL green is in and the red out- and all of that pom-pomery for the lining becomes silver color so we may have one of Srila Prubhupadas fav styles with some more faithful traditionalist measure to celebrate?

I personally have an issue with the motif of Christmas, but some devotees do like the outfit and use it. BTW we do use English mantras instead of Sanskrit in our functions for example we say All glories to assemble devotees three times. we do use Christian terms such as His Divine Grace or His Holiness or "founder-acharya" instead of samstapaka-achaya. I guess one should not take it to an extreme and start dressing Krishna in a cowboys outfit everyday, even it was done before. I guess the answer is that it is not authorized and is a speculation due to lack of realization by the pujaris (who as sentimental). After all Prabhupada wrote a letter: "I am returning one Deity photo to you. This dressing style is not authorized. But the other photos are very nice." He was not specific, but it looks like he was more conservative on the issue of the dress. I guess the coordinated colour outfit would be an acceptable compromise, after all Krishna is worshiped and enjoys life in the snows of the temple grounds.

[quote][cite] sitapati:[/cite]This is an old picture. I heard from a friend that the GBC told them not to use this outfit, and they dont. So its not really an up-to-date "controversy".[/quote]
[br]
http://news.iskcon.com/node/2456

Merry Bol!

[quote][cite] Kyros:[/cite][quote][cite] sitapati:[/cite]This is an old picture. I heard from a friend that the GBC told them not to use this outfit, and they dont. So its not really an up-to-date "controversy".[/quote]
[br]
http://news.iskcon.com/node/2456[/quote]

Very up-to-date...seems they didnt get the hint!!!

Actually my initial reaction was quite heated,however after noticing that krishna has no white beard....thankfully .I tried to overcome my biased first impressions,and logically deal with this sympathetically.Be cause it is inspired by a christmas spirit......obviously it is dangeriously rasa-bhas however maybe the local christians might infact see it in a favourable light.

Infact the two distinctive rasa-bhas articles are the claus hat....and the small snow man.Which seem relatively harmless .....however personally it appears an unnecessary alternative concocted mood and another example of changing things to suit our inadequate perceptions of krishna conciousness.

I think its cruel, too. Wearing a warm winter outfit, but being barefoot? Anyone who has ever tried standing or walking in the winter cold and snow for more than a few minutes knows exactly what I mean.

Clearly maya -- in fact it is mayavada -- to think that Krishna can be covered by santas outfit.