Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Actually there is no difference. But some use Diksa as a term for second initiation only, that is where the confusion enters. So there could be hari-nama-diksa, gopal-mantra-diksa, bhahma-gayatri-diksa, this-mantra-diksa, that-mantra-diksa, but essentially diksa is the formal process of receiving a holy name from his or her guru.

It is sometimes used as a technical term by gaudiya followers who think themselves more orthodox then others, but there is no sastric or infact Prabhupada based support to suggest that harinama diksa is not diksa. So disciple of Prabhupada who only received harinama from Prabhupada and gopal mantra from someone else, is still diksa-disciple of Prabhupada.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]... essentially diksa is the formal process of receiving a holy name from his or her guru. [/quote]

Whats the difference between having the Holy Name enter ones ear through a gurus whisper, compared to hearing the guru lead kirtan or on the Japa by Example tape?

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]Actually there is no difference. But some use Diksa as a term for second initiation only, that is where the confusion enters. So there could be hari-nama-diksa, gopal-mantra-diksa, bhahma-gayatri-diksa, this-mantra-diksa, that-mantra-diksa, but essentially diksa is the formal process of receiving a holy name from his or her guru.

It is sometimes used as a technical term by gaudiya followers who think themselves more orthodox then others, but there is no sastric or infact Prabhupada based support to suggest that harinama diksa is not diksa. So disciple of Prabhupada who only received harinama from Prabhupada and gopal mantra from someone else, is still diksa-disciple of Prabhupada.[/quote]Ccd did u say Prabhupada say Harinama is Not, diksa? But it is (harinama-diksha)?

>Pandu das: Whats the difference between having the Holy Name enter ones ear through a gurus whisper, compared to hearing the guru lead kirtan or on the Japa by Example tape?

One has element of formal and confirmed acceptance of f disciple and kirtan is an example of a general intent to spread the holy name, e.g., one is formal acceptance in parampara and another is informal connection (which can be as valid if you ask me).

Pankajadasa Prabhu:- Diksa is initiation (and also a wife of Lord Siva:), thus Prabhupada used this term for both first diksa (first initiation) and second diksa (second initiation). If you are confused just replace it with the word initiation and keep talking. First invitation is sometime called harinama-diksa or initiation into Holy Name, just as second initiation is called sometimes brahmana initiation.

Interesting to note that Prabhupada in his books or in his own words never used the phrase "brahmana initiation". It has started to creep up in the letters that were not typed by him, it is not his expression. Devotees still use this expression brahmana initiation. For example:Mahamaya in her book:
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After three weeks, Satsvarupa prabhu announced he was traveling to Los Angeles to take sannyasa from Srila Prabhupada. The night before he left, I made one more effort to get recommended for ***brahmana initiation***. He astounded me by responding, "Im sorry! I forgot to tell you-a letter came from Srila Prabhupada, and youre getting initiated tomorrow!" He gave me a photocopy of the letter:
CENTER: ISKCON Los Angeles
DATE: May 17, 1972
My dear Satsvarupa,
Please accept my blessings. I have received several letters from Hridayananda requesting sacred thread initiation for Pusta Krishna and Mahamaya dasi in Houston centre. So now he has come to Los Angeles so I am sending you their threads and two copies of gayatri mantra enclosed. You may hold a fire yajna and give them both gayatri mantra. You know well how to do it.
Another thing, I am giving sannyas to Rupanuga, Karandhar and Bali Mardan and as you have also asked me, I shall also be pleased to give you sannyas. The others are coming to Los Angeles by the 25th May, 1972, and the ceremony will be held on the 27th May. However, as I am most probably coming to Dallas on my return from Mexico City, it is more practical to give you sannyas order of life at that time.
Hoping this will find you in good health,

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Now Prabhupada in his books instead of Gayatri initiations or Brahmana initiation, would use the expression second initiation. I find it significant, as it is his system that he described in CC:

...disciples qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. In our Krsna consciousness movement, the requirement is that one must be prepared to give up the four pillars of sinful life-illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. In Western countries especially, we first observe whether a potential disciple is prepared to follow the regulative principles. Then he is given the name of a Vaisnava servant and initiated to chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra, at least sixteen rounds daily. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representative for at least six months to a year. He is then recommended for a ****second initiation****, during which a sacred thread is offered and the disciple is accepted as a bona fide brahmana. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura introduced the system of giving the sacred thread to a bona fide Vaisnava, and we are following in his footsteps.
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This is also the expression that he used in conversations, so we should also use this expression and call it "second initiation" -

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Prabhupada: A devotee, because he is working as a sudra, he is not a sudra; neither he is a brahmana. He is already in the spiritual platform. But for management we have to do that. One can do the sudras work nicely-let him be engaged in that way. Why he should imitate?
Mahamsa: Does he get second initiation?
Prabhupada: Everything he will get.
Mahamsa: He gets.
Prabhupada: Yes. Second initiation means recognized: "Now he has become fully competent."

Hare Krishna ccd prabhu, so after harinama, u get diksha? So its like a process

[quote][cite] Pankajadasa:[/cite]Hare Krishna ccd prabhu, so after harinama, u get diksha? So its like a process[/quote]
No you get diksa and then diksa. Actually qualified people get it together.
When you say after harinama you should say after first initiation. When you say diksha you should say second initiation. Both are called diksa. (Gaudiya maths often misinterpret this point due to semantics of Bengali).

Actually ccd prabhu i am in gaudiya matha. :) if i have further questions i let you know.

From sadhu-sanga (ISKCON:) comes bhakti-lata bija (Krishna consciousness) and then gurupadasraya (surrender to the spiritual master) then diksa (initiation). This diksa includes both - so there are no differences as such. Both are referred sometimes as diksa (because upayana samskara is treated as a material or cast based brahaman sacred thread initiation), but really it is upayana-samskara combined with sampradaya mantra diksa (gopal mantra and kama gayatri), but based on adhikara (harinama) qualification, not on jati and janma (caste and birth).