Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

yes, I also heard that cocoa butter is not intoxicant...

From a quick google search, it says that white chocolate is made from milk, sugar, and cocoa butter. I havent found anything on cocoa butter that tells me if its an intoxicant or not.

Edit: Found something.

Milk chocolate is very closely related to white: the milk solids and sweetness are similar - only the cocoa solids are missing. Their absence means there are only trace quantities in white chocolate of theobromine and caffeine, the stimulants in chocolate that cause allergic reactions in some people.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE6DA123CF932A15751C1A96E948260

So in other words, it contains very very VERY little amounts of theobromine and caffeine. Prabhupada said no intoxicants, so a little is some, so...yeah...

so yeah we can or we can not?

The logic of what you can and can not eat to a large extent based on what can and can not be offered to the Deity.

I would suggest if devotees cook milk choc or white choc for the thakur, it is okay; but *I* would not offer them to the Deity, just as I would not offer to the Deity an alcohol free beer (there is very little alcohol in it, but it is by its nature alcoholic) even I know some devotees I respect drink it.

There is very little strictness about chocolate among Vaisnavas, so if someone eats white choc and not other kinds, I would suggest he is a very strict devotee.

I guess its up to the person. If one eats too many grapes, he gets intoxicated as well.

Same thing with too much sugar, or spices. Moderation is the key for everything, but somethings cannot be moderated.

Id just stick with carob, it tastes richer too me, and its sattvic.

ok, I like the alcohol free beer. I know some devotees drink it and say that it contains 0,0 alcohol but if you do some research it actually contains 0,09 alcohol.

I guess some drink it to keep the spirit high you know... hehe

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite]but if you do some research it actually contains 0,09 alcohol.
[/quote]
Its like an almost vegetarian sausage, just 0.09 percent of beef and the rest is substitute. Would you eat it?

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]Would you eat it?[/quote]

No!!! Thanks for the info.

Ive had temple nectar on many occasions that contained more than 0.09% alcohol. Its a natural component of ripe, not necessarily overripe, fruit.

100% chocolate would never make you drunk...

http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/downloads/health/chocolate-addiction.html
Chocoholics - overcome chocolate addiction now! Low cost solution for the addiction!

For those who want to be strict...

Srila Prabhupada said repeatedly that sugar is an intoxicant.

("That sugar, they say that the ants they are very intoxicants; therefore they like sugar. Sugar is intoxication. Wine is made from sugar. Yes."
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay)

Water is also an intoxicant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Good luck talking about intoxication without regard to dosage.

Prabhupada said pramana:

In itally 1974 Prabhupada said that a little bit of wine is good for digestion... well Prabhupada said...

[quote][cite] shina:[/cite]100% chocolate would never make you drunk...[/quote]

Actually, for some people, chocolate does have a affect similiar to being drunk

[quote][cite] Pandu das:[/cite]For those who want to be strict...

Srila Prabhupada said repeatedly that sugar is an intoxicant.

("That sugar, they say that the ants they are very intoxicants; therefore they like sugar. Sugar is intoxication. Wine is made from sugar. Yes."
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay)[/quote]

White Sugar is tamasic. Raw sugar is fine. The later still needs to be moderated otherwise it becomes rajasic.

[quote]Water is also an intoxicant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Good luck talking about intoxication without regard to dosage.[/quote]

Water is sattvic (well, pure water anyway, but lets be practical), chocolate is not.

"Its like an almost vegetarian sausage, just 0.09 percent of beef and the rest is substitute. Would you eat it?"

Are some people trying to find a "loophole" or some rationalization so they can eat chocolate without the guillt?

I dont understand why this topic continues like this. Chocolate has caffiene - it is a stimulant. Prabhupada instructed no stimulants.

Bas

White chocolate has uses an ingredient called cocoa butter, which has trace amounts of caffeine.

Now someone could argue that all foods have trace amounts of germs or other objects in their foods, but its not practical to reject food because of that. The same is the deal with white chocolate, which has trace amounts of caffeine. I havent anwered yes or no on that. Id just leave it up to the person.

[quote][cite] Hari Bhakta dasa:[/cite][quote][cite] shina:[/cite]100% chocolate would never make you drunk...[/quote]

Actually, for some people, chocolate does have a affect similiar to being drunk[/quote]

who are "some people"? do you know any? Its the first time I hear that...

I know many devotees who eat pasta that may have traces of egg, non organic milk, bread with E-471, cheese with rennet, non-veg ice-creams...
I would eat white chocolate rather than all this...

Its difficult to get your hands on non-organic milk. You have to make the best of what you have.

E-471 may be veg or not, youd have to call the company to find out which kind it is. Home Pride breads are vegetarian friendly. You can also make your own bread at home. Create a lot of loafs and stick them in the freezer to preserve them. Though they are time consuming to make.

For those that want kosher cheese: http://cheese.joyousliving.com/

You can make your own Ice-Cream at home fairly easily by googling up recipes. Kurma das also has a recipe for mango ice cream in one of his books, and you can easily replace the mango with some other fruit.

[quote][cite] shina:[/cite][quote][cite] Hari Bhakta dasa:[/cite][quote][cite] shina:[/cite]100% chocolate would never make you drunk...[/quote]

Actually, for some people, chocolate does have a affect similiar to being drunk[/quote]

who are "some people"? do you know any? Its the first time I hear that...

I know many devotees who eat pasta that may have traces of egg, non organic milk, bread with E-471, cheese with rennet, non-veg ice-creams...
I would eat white chocolate rather than all this...[/quote]

Actually, yes, me. I have low blood sugar and chocolate used to give me a big "high" when I ate it back in the day. Then drop me down to a very low low like a hangover. So I speak from experience.

[quote][cite] Hari Bhakta dasa:[/cite][quote][cite] shina:[/cite][quote][cite] Hari Bhakta dasa:[/cite][quote][cite] shina:[/cite]100% chocolate would never make you drunk...[/quote]

Actually, for some people, chocolate does have a affect similiar to being drunk[/quote]

who are "some people"? do you know any? Its the first time I hear that...

I know many devotees who eat pasta that may have traces of egg, non organic milk, bread with E-471, cheese with rennet, non-veg ice-creams...
I would eat white chocolate rather than all this...[/quote]

Actually, yes, me. I have low blood sugar and chocolate used to give me a big "high" when I ate it back in the day. Then drop me down to a very low low like a hangover. So I speak from experience.[/quote]

oh! I see. thank you for sharing. I will not eat chocolate :)

[quote][cite] Hari Bhakta dasa:[/cite]

Actually, yes, me. I have low blood sugar and chocolate used to give me a big "high" when I ate it back in the day. Then drop me down to a very low low like a hangover. So I speak from experience.[/quote]

What does low blood sugar have to do with chocolate? It sounds more like the sugar in with the chocolate wouldve caused the reaction you describe.

[quote][cite] Pandu das:[/cite][quote][cite] Hari Bhakta dasa:[/cite]

Actually, yes, me. I have low blood sugar and chocolate used to give me a big "high" when I ate it back in the day. Then drop me down to a very low low like a hangover. So I speak from experience.[/quote]

What does low blood sugar have to do with chocolate? It sounds more like the sugar in with the chocolate wouldve caused the reaction you describe.[/quote]

People with low blood sugar can not handle caffiene either. A mixture of sugar and caffiene was extremely bad for me. I am sure everyone is different. This is just the way it worked on me.

Several years ago I did some child care, and one kid who was diagnosed "attention deficit/ hyperactivity disorder" (ADHD) sometimes used caffeine to calm down when he otherwise couldnt control himself. It had practically the opposite effect on him (and presumably others with his "condition") as it does on most of us.

Calling something an intoxicant but ignoring other relevant variables just doesnt make sense to me.

One needs to consider the principle of contamination, where an ingredient (no matter how much off it) if contained renders food un-usable. Choc has this ingredient(s) and is just as any preparation that contains garlic, is not suitable for vaisnavas. It is not to say that we should be critical of these vaisnavas, because it is such a small point, but one should not compromise on it. We should have compassion on all the swamis, pujaris and gurus who eat chocolate and can not give up:-)

Pandu das, we all think, or should think practically here. If you have a serious problem and the only PRACTICAL way to keep the problem down or make it disappear is by eating chocolate, garlic, or onions, then by all means, do it if you want/need to.

Just remember though that this body is temporary and we do not have to follow its whims. Itll throw everything at us. If you want chocolate, it it from the transcendental cocao tree.

I really couldnt care less about chocolate. Ive gone long durations avoiding it, and other times had some. Its really a very minor issue, IMHO.

However, I wildcraft herbs and produce herbal medicines, something Im trying to develop into a substantial business. Almost every kind of herb tincture is made using alcohol, normally about 80 proof. Ive never heard of another way of doing it, except for a vinegar tincture of _Lobelia inflata_ (which I tried making but did not think was very good). Even so-called "alcohol-free" tinctures are made with alcohol which is later removed, and these alcohol-free tinctures have a very poor shelf life.

The amount of alcohol in a normal dose of tincture is less than the amount naturally occuring in a piece of ripe fruit. Every time I set up my herbal medicine table at a Hare Krishna event, someone criticizes that there is alcohol in them. Yet they dont care at all about the naturally occurring alcohol in the nectar theyre drinking. In reality, neither is intoxicating because the dose of alcohol is much too low, but some devotees none the less take pride in shunning my tinctures due to the insignificant quantity of alcohol in a dose of medicine. For them it also does not matter that nearly all the alcohol can be removed by adding it to a little hot water (since alcohol boils at 78c).

I wonder if these devotees ever take conventional cough medicines (dextromethorphan HBr), which is a wild intoxicant, giving effects of pot, LSD, opium, and alcohol COMBINED (but has been clinically proven to be of little use in stopping coughs). Do they ever use decongestents with pseudoephidrine, which is a precursor to methamphetamine? Of course there are many similar examples.

I dont know that much about Srila Prabhupadas grhastha life, but if I recall correctly, he produced pharmaceuticals, which at that time wouldve meant mostly herbal medicines. I cant imagine how he could have done it without using alcohol and other "intoxicants" in production or as ingredients. Perhaps someone here knows more about that.

Sometimes I amuse myself imagining these devotees who shun my medicines being transported to an earlier time, not recognizing Srila Prabhupada ("Mr. De") as a grhastha businessman, and looking down on him for selling "intoxicants." ("What kind of pseudo-Vaisnava is this... selling medicines in alcohol?"). I guess thats probably offensive in some way, but I cant help my warped sense of humor.

Hare Krishna

Pandu Prabhu, what about distillation?
I do my soap and stick those essences, also as dissinfectans and to make toothpaste. Herbal essences vapor distilled, no chemicals.

If youre using it for medicine, I cant really say anything, but Im just against it for a leisure drink.

Mishra prabhu, Pandu prabhu, do you guys have a website for your products?

[quote][cite] mishra:[/cite]Pandu Prabhu, what about distillation?
I do my soap and stick those essences, also as dissinfectans and to make toothpaste. Herbal essences vapor distilled, no chemicals.[/quote]

Distillation is used for producing essential oils and flower essences, but thats something different; and in fact flower essences are normally made with brandy (but there again a normal dose is a few drops). Distillation to extract medicinal compounds from herbs depends upon active ingredients having a boiling point less than water, but thats not practical for most herbs. Any herb that one would use to make a medicinal tea would not work unless the active ingredients had a boiling point just below that of water. If, for example, I would try to extract the active compounds from echinacea by distillation, the non-polar compounds would mostly remain in the herb (alcohol extracts these), the polar compounds would remain in the water as a decoction, and only the volitile compounds would be extracted by distillation. I would take a lot of herb and make an extract that doesnt work. Theres the option of just selling dry herbs, but theyre not worth much because they dont maintain potency very long or deliver the full range of medicinal compounds. Alcohol tinctures add a lot of value to the herb because they are very effective and maintain their potency for several decades. Theres really no equivalent alternative that Ive heard of in about 17 years of doing this.

[quote][cite] Kyros:[/cite]If youre using it for medicine, I cant really say anything, but Im just against it for a leisure drink.

Mishra prabhu, Pandu prabhu, do you guys have a website for your products?[/quote]

My wife is gradually working on a web site, but its not ready yet. Its hard to find time to work on it. (20 years ago, whod have thought that starting an herbal medicine business would require computer programming?) I might be able set up something more quickly by selling through a blog, so I may have to look into that. Basically I have about 50 individual herb tinctures, six combination formulae (and more to come), and a very nice healing salve. Im looking into also making some syrups and lozenges this year. Thanks for your interest. Im sure Ill find ways to get the word out when Ive got something to show on the web. Hare Krishna.

[quote][cite]
Mishra prabhu, Pandu prabhu, do you guys have a website for your products?[/quote]

No, I do just enough for home use. Best toothpaste formula: http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/160/

How much white clay do you mix with the other stuff?

Also, by steam distilled essence, you mean eucalyptus, lemon, sage, etc oils, right?

Yes, they are food grade oils sage, lemon, etc. Get a plastic container like those for the beauty products, put white clay and add water until forms a paste. Previously you put a few drops of essence in the water so it mixes well.

I got one more question. Is the same white clay you use the same kind they use in cosmetics? I dont want to make a mistake in buying white clay and it ends up being something different.

For example, this kind:

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/clay/clay.html#cl_w

http://www.fromnaturewithlove.com/product.asp?product_id=claychina&searchflag=1

yes, exactly that one, also called kaolin. I buy it at the herbalist with the essence. Be careful the essence is steam distilled food grade, the others are full of chemicals.
This is the only way I know to avoid fluoride, carried in all commercial brands. Perhaps there is one fluoride-free brand but sells at gold price.

Heres something about fluoride-free alternatives:

http://www.passionatehomemaking.com/2008/08/going-fluoride-free.html

I usually buy Indian Promise brand which costs here in CZ about 1 EU.

all bottled product usually has some chemical to preserve for shelf life
that is why i make my own.