Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

As long as you can back up whatever you say, then be a sadhu, one who cuts the illusion.

A truly sincere devotee wont throw insults at you, that type of attitude is meant for those whipped by maya.

[quote][cite] abhiram:[/cite]It seems to me that the only way to survive in iskcon is to have a good dose of political correctness in all you do and say.
Then you will be known as humble and vaishnava. If you point any mistakes you are insulted, called a ritvik or worse.
Is there another way to survive in iskcon?
How do you do it?[/quote]

They say.....humility, service, begging to be menial servant of vaisnavas..... That is welcome. Giving love, receiving love..... You know.

I didnt make it though. Dropped out after being kicked in the face again and again with the usual aparadhi/ritvik/mayavadi stuff.... Usually local authorities can do the trick of pushing you away, but sometimes, when one is really persistent, guru and GBC steps in, and do the thing.

I heard nice saying, quote from Sridhar Swami (ISKCON), "Lead, follow, or step aside!" One lady disciple of his told it to me just few days ago. I think it quite nicely describes the corporate ISKCON. Unable to lead within their system, unable to follow their ideas, what is left then? Stepping aside is the only option for many.

I think the only way to survive in ISKCON is to forget about the corporate chaya-ISKCON, and approach the real ISKCON, as was given by Srila Prabhupada. But that may be rare to find, at least in my case, I havent found it yet. Still looking though...

"Lead, follow, or step aside!"

That is an excellent quote.

It happens that you cant lead because they dont want you. You cant follow because you would become a loyal fool and if you step aside you are blooped, a ritvik or anti-iskcon.

yawn...

Yes, thats exact quote: "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." Thats what Sridhar Swami liked to say.
Didnt know it was originally Thomas Paine. :) Thats fun.

Yes, as abhiram said, it is uninspiring.

Otherwise I dont mind being loyal fool, Id like to be that towards Srila Prabhupada. But thats not just for anybody. If leaders would display qualities of submission to Srila Prabhupada, we would follow them, surely.

Actually I met with fresh "put down" some time ago. "Mayavadi contaminated". I didnt hear that one before ever used on devotees. Before the usual drill was hearing of myself as being envious, vaisnava aparadhi, criticizer, on ego and similar. Later on they added ritvik - surely that guarantees witch hunt within their congregation - you dont want to be anywhere close someone who is ... oh, I dare not speak the damned word ... RITVIK, my god, how awful, how sinful..... But that was not enough. In the end I became mayavadi.... I wonder what follows, if they have anything left at all to throw in my face. Maybe if I show at their door again someday, they will just shoot me or something.

So, how to survive in such ISKCON? Difficult. Actually, I have no idea! I cant help thinking that although they like to say that Srila Prabhupada "created a house for all", they nevertheless turned it into limited-access, and it is pretty much just "my way, or the highway". You cant lead, because they wont let you. And surely you cant follow their distasteful innovations. So "get out of the way" is in their book pretty much the only option.

Giri-nayaka prabhu, what do you say that warrants those comments, and where do you live? Even if someone preaches Mayavada philosophy, you should still at least respect them. Mahaprabhu himself didnt go around insulting them, but tried talking to them. They are, after all, spirit souls like us.

I think to survive in ISKCON one needs a good sense of humor and low expectations [u]from[/u] others... all other rules and regulations will follow this one.

[quote][cite] Kyros:[/cite]Giri-nayaka prabhu, what do you say that warrants those comments, and where do you live? Even if someone preaches Mayavada philosophy, you should still at least respect them. Mahaprabhu himself didnt go around insulting them, but tried talking to them. They are, after all, spirit souls like us.[/quote]

Well, I dont preach mayavada, thats for sure. :) And last time I checked, I was still a spirit soul. :) I have absolutely no idea why I got the "mayavadi" label. Still all local devotes were warned about me some months ago, during the most major ista-ghosti in last 10+ years of our yatra, in temple room, altar open, in front of GBC representative, that I should be avoided because Im contaminated with mayavada.

So, it was new one for me. I never heard that anyone would put another devotee down like this, in front of deities, vaisnavas and Prabhupada Murti. And GBC was present in all his glory, sitting on vyasasana and all, but he didnt object the mayavada accusation against me - he only said that "we shouldnt hate the sinner, but the sin". Where it happened? It was in Ljubljana Panca-tattva temple, Slovenia, november 2008. GBC present was Bir Krsna Maharaja.

It was as official as it gets. I will never forget it, I hope. Let it remind me forever of stupidity, that is going on in the name of ISKCON.

CCD is right, sense of humor and low expectations do the trick. One can actually ignore them, at least for some time. But such approach doesnt provide required support. No unity, no cooperation. Who will follow or even support some guys, who you cannot even take seriously, and cannot expect much from them? I know I wont. And I know most others wont too. Its a shame, and disgrace.

[img]http://www.strangezoo.com/images/content/10754.jpg[/img]

just to cheer you up. :)

Giri-nayaka prabhu, I wouldnt worry so much about it. People forget that this is the Kali-Yuga, and Lord Chaitanyas golden age may apparently have a rough start (heck, look at all the apasampradayas that have shown up in 500 years), but Gods will be done, and this world will eventually drown in Krsna-Prema.

Dont forget this either:

harer nama harer nama
harer namaiva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva
nasty eva gatir anyatha

'93'91In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.'92

[quote][cite] Kyros:[/cite]Giri-nayaka prabhu, I wouldnt worry so much about it. [/quote]

Well, I am worried quite a lot. I dont think these things are to be taken lightly. Kali-yuga, yes, thats good excuse..... But actually it is not real Kali-yuga yet, it is still a transitional period. "According to the Surya-siddhanta, the prathama-sandhya of Kali-yuga lasts 36,000 solar years." >>> Ref. VedaBase => Adi 3.29 It is actually just beginning of sandhya, 30.000 years to go.

But even if it was full Kali-yuga at work, still "... if somehow or other the Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes manifest within the hearts of the conditioned souls in Kali-yuga, then all faults of place, time and personality inherent in the age will be destroyed."

Caitanya Mahaprabhu was here just 500 yrs ago, and Prabhupada is perfectly available to all. Kali-yuga is good excuse, but not so good after all. What we observe is not kali-yuga, but the usual lust, anger, greed, madness, envy and illusion. Those bad qualities are present in all ages, all over the material world. They are signs of conditioned souls. "A mundaner (1) is sure to commit mistakes, (2) is invariably illusioned, (3) has the tendency to cheat others and (4) is limited by imperfect senses."

Leaders in ISKCON must be able to manifest good qualities. If they cannot, something is seriously wrong with them, and they are not fit for positions of spiritual authority, which they claim to be. And if they are misleaders, thats a serious thing. Nothing to be humorous about. And lowering expectations breeds "Im ok, youre ok". I see no good reason why devotees should lower their expectations towards those, who present themselves as spiritual authorities in Prabhupadas ISKCON.

You cant save someone who is drowning when you yourself is drowning.

Worrying isnt going to change anything. The best thing to do is to keep chanting to purify your heart. Once your heart is purified, only then will you be empowered by Sri Sri Gaura Nitai and purify other peoples heart.

Also, regardless of if Kali-Yuga is in its early stages or fully manifest, its still Kali-Yuga. Lust, greed, madness, etc are at least more controlled in previous ages. Its rampant in Kali-Yuga, and as you said, its going to get worse.

[quote][cite] Giri-nayaka das:[/cite] I see no good reason why devotees should lower their expectations towards those, who present themselves as spiritual authorities in Prabhupadas ISKCON.[/quote]

The reason is very simple, prabhu:

"That is how to survive in ISKCON."

ISKCON? Dont you mean Kali-Yuga?

Hare krishna...are you personally full in your krishna conciousness?can you spoon feed yourself?if the answer to these questions is an honest no then take shelter of an older more advanced devotee in your temple for sustenance , guidance and loving friendship .He or she will naturally relish serving krishna and you will be attracted if you are sincere....if not keep chanting and try and become sincere.....yuga avatar das.

Why survive ISKCON? Better get well educated on the topic of pure devotional service. Read about Pure Bhakti, and then you can learn how to create the environment you need. Sri Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu ki! Jaya!

With Love,
Uddhava dasa

Hare Krsna

as far as I understand it is better to keep some respectful distance not to commit offences. Then everything is fine.