Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Does not make sense, as for example Gaura Kisora das Babaji was not set up or intending to teach sastra; but to lead to perfection in understanding the sastra - yes.

The fact that one has many gurus should not be avoided or taken lightly. Certainly one need gurus to learn sastra, but also need a guru to receive a holy name and gopal mantra etc., Why one guru, why one most essential qualification? But I see no reason why teachers of bhakti sastra are not initiating gurus... they just approved Narayani dasi... that is good news.

Hrdaya Caitanya Prabhu also sent Syamananda Prabhu to learn advanced topics from Jiva Gosvami. The question is if BhS can be considered an advanced learning. But its just the first level. Prabhupada wanted systematic study program with exams.

A first examination will be held sometimes next January on Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and those passing will have the degree of Bhakti-sastri. Next year we will hold an examination on Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the person who passes will have the title Bhakti-vaibhava. And the next year we shall hold an examination on Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Nectar of Devotion and Vedanta Sutra, and those who will successfully pass will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. By 1975, all of those who have passed all of the above examinations will be specifically empowered to initiate and increase the number of the Krishna Consciousness population. (SPL Kirtanananda, Los Angeles, 12 January 1969)

We wish to hold examinations and award titles such as Bhakti-sastri, Bhakti-vaibhava, and Bhaktivedanta. The whole program will continue for seven years, and the students who will be fully engaged in this study of a seven year course will be classified in the 4-D section of the draft board. (SPL Aniruddha, Los Angeles, 4 February 1969)

Q. 3. Curriculums: Study of Bhagavad-gita As It Is; Srimad-Bhagavatam; (3 vol.); Nectar of Devotion; Teachings of Lord Caitanya; Vedanta Sutra. (In this way, arrange the curriculum program around these our books, and the professors, those who have been with us ample time, such as Brahmananda, Hayagriva, Kirtanananda, and have also academic qualifications). This is the complete course requiring to study 7 years. When the first exam is given the student making passing grade is given the title of Bhakti-sastri, second exam, Bhaktivaibhava, 3rd exam, Bhaktivedanta. (Letter to Swami Bhaktivedanta from Selective Service System, Hawaii, 14 March 1969)

Thanks for your responses, but neither provide an answer to the question. Regarding the Prabhupada quotes, if those letters are read in their historical context , you will find that Prabhupada was trying to set up an educational institution specifically to save his dicsciples from being drafted to the Vietnam War.

Okay the answer is that guru is krsna tattva veti not sanskriti tattva veti. While sastra is the medium, so are the songs of the acharyas, such as Narottama dasa Thakura. Infact it is sufficient to read them and knowlede of Sanskrit (eg teacher of sastra) is not req. The definition of guru you quoted is a Sanskrit definition of a teacher. Thanks for the historical context to BhS start-up in ISKCON.

"Prabhupada: Yes, it is Sanskrit, but the Vedic mantras are received not by learning Sanskrit, but by hearing from the authorized person. Therefore it is called sruti. It is in Sanskrit because there was no other language. Sanskrit was the only language. So now theyre being translated into English. So it doesnt matter whether it is in Sanskrit or English, one has to learn it by hearing from the proper person. That is wanted. It is... The Vedic mantras are called sruti, not Sanskriti. (laughter). It is called sruti. Sruti means the first business is hearing. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. What is the purpose of going to guru? Means to, guru is the authorized person from hear..., from him hear. So it doesnt require that one has to learn Sanskrit. We have got so many disciples. It is not that they first of all learned Sanskrit. They heard. It may be in Sanskrit language or in English language. It doesnt matter. Let him hear the real fact. That is wanted. Although the Vedic mantras are in Sanskrit, the process to understand is to hear. To hear it may be any language, to hear and understand, then he becomes perfect. It is not the Sanskrit language. It is the hearing which is important."

>to save his dicsciples from being drafted to the Vietnam War.

Yes but he never gave this system up. See letters to Radhavallabha, Nellore, 5 January 1976, to Svarupa Damodara, Bombay, 10 January 1976, etc.

Again, I cant see how these responses answer the question...

ccd, it looks like your confusing teaching sastra with teaching sanskrit. In regards to krsna tattva-veti: "If a spiritual master does not speak according to the revealed scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the sastra, he is not a saintly person. The sastra is the center for all." (purport Madhya 20.352)

Veda, I am not sure what youre saying by providing examples of Prabhupada wanting to set up an examination system.

[quote][cite] deena:[/cite]Again, I cant see how these responses answer the question...

ccd, it looks like your confusing teaching sastra with teaching sanskrit.[/quote]

Only because you quoted Amara Krosh (you meant Amara-koSa)... but othewise fine let all the gurus also teach Bhaktivaibhava. In reality they are all lining up to pass examination first, there was a line of them passing the Bhakti sastri exam when GBC published the resolution that all gurus should be at least BhS. But since most of them just sit the exam without doing the course it is not quite easy to teach it for them;-)

deena, not just examination system but a study system, as an analogy of priestly education in Christian traditions.

If guru has more disciples he lets the more advanced teach the less advanced. This is the traditional way and the idea behind Bh* courses.
(* = Sastri, etc.)

Primary responsibility of guru, siksa or diksa, meaning anyone who takes care of others by preaching, is to create taste. Because "The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness."

Taste, ruci, vasudeva-katha-rucih, that is the beginning of our perfection. The BEGINNING!!!
So-called preachers are not able to create taste.

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This sraddha has to be increased. Then when you come to the point of ruci, vasudeva-katha-rucih, that is the beginning of our perfection. At the present moment, there is no ruci, no taste. Vasudeva-katha-rucih. There are so many exalted persons, but they have no taste. They have lost all taste. Vasudeva-katha-rucih. There are two faults. Either people could not preach properly so that they could not create taste of the people in general... It is not the fault of the people in general. It is the fault of the so-called preachers also. Because they could not create taste, they wanted to take the place of Krsna. That was their purpose. Imitation of Krsna. Imitation of God. That will not do. You have to create taste.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.16 -- Vrndavana, October 27, 1972
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So vasudeva-katha-rucih [SB 1.2.16]. People should be educated how to increase the taste for understanding Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness movement.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.16 -- Vrndavana, October 27, 1972
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It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Krsna consciousness.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm
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