Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Having seen the video at matchless gifts..Uk site...we would have to see narayana maharaja visually,on film especially make a verbal apology to srila Prabhupada for his extremely offensive behaviour then there might be some genuine response from those who witnessed this aparadha against our param guru.Otherwise let them stay outside our organisation ,they are prone just to try and steal our devotees.

I mean it is between ISKCON and NM, not former ISKCON devotees and NM...

I agree that a public apology by NM (or a representative) would be in order to help the situation, considering the GBC has officially apologised through their representative.

No it must be on video and it must be narayanna maharaja.

[quote][cite] sri_govinda_das:[/cite]No it must be on video and it must be narayanna maharaja.[/quote] And he should say ... this and that, because this is what I want...

Parasuurama is former Iskcon devotee??

Parasuraama, an incarnation of the Lord, who killed the ksatriya community as a whole twenty-one times?

It brings to mind the quote from Srila Prabhupadas Purport to the second canto:

"The valuable time of ones life must therefore be fully engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. Then other desirable achievements are automatically gained. But even after obtaining such achievements, one should be on guard against the pitfall of offenses at the feet of the devotees. The vivid example is Haihaya, who achieved all such perfection in devotional service but, because of his offense at the feet of a devotee, was killed by Lord Parasurama."

I find that the meeting was aimed to mitigate the offences and the chances to commit them, more then anything else. Let us see what they will come up with on the next GBC meetings.

Yes,I will talk to Parasurama das today and try to address his apparent deviation in leaving Iskcon.

Thank you.

Ysvt.

Also try to define who is the member of Iskcon. It used to be only those who live in Iskcon temple or life-members. We definitely need a photoID system in place, so that deviant, re, under and un-initiated devotees would not sneak in:P and for gods sake get some prasadam.

It is amazing how much service Parasurma prabhu as a former member performs through so many Ratha Yatras,Glastonbury like preaching festivals,Maha Hari-nams twice a week. Friday evening preaching programs with Maha-feast for all the new guests. Prasadam cooking classes. Regular maha inspiring bhagavatam classes in soho and Manor etc etc etc.
Like Tribhuvanath prabhu he has that special dedication to Srila Prabhupadas movement to always every moment practically performng the Tapasa.

apparent members of Iskcon may not have a scratch on him. Not a scratch!

He puts some of us armchair Internet philosophers to shame! :-(

isnt it?

His breakfasts at the manor r pretty ecstatic also! :-)

jaya Vaisnava-Thakar!

jaya!!!! but does he have an ISKCON photoID?

"Iskcon,Fiskcon!" -Avatara extraordinaire HDGAC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Have you all ....ccd and nrsingha seen the nasti video of narayanna maharaja criticizing his divine grace?

All Glories to Sri Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga! Hare Krsna, what is the situation?

>Narayana Maharaja made several proposals how to improve the relationship between ISKCON and himself and his followers.

The press release is silent about these proposals, there is no mention of any of these proposals.Is it a top secret or does anyone know what these proposals are which H.H.B.V.Narayana Maharaja has proposed.

>Narayana Maharaja made several proposals how to improve the relationship between ISKCON and himself and his followers.

Rasa prabhu, imho, answer to your question depends on what these proposals are and whether they will be acceptable to ISKCON devotees.

The only way there could be a positive relationship between NM and ISKCON is if NM were to suddenly realize who Srila Prabhupada really is--his eternal spiritual master Sri Caitya Guru Prabhupada and fully surrender unto Him.

Highly unlikely since 1. He has great desire for position and fame similar to Srila Prabhupada. 2. He is empowered by maya to cleanse ISKCON of the ungrateful and unfaithful persons, by bringing them to himself.

The most positive relationship that can exist between both parties is folded hands from a great distance, no association at all.

"The only way there could be a positive relationship between NM and ISKCON is if NM were to suddenly realize who Srila Prabhupada really is--his eternal spiritual master Sri Caitya Guru Prabhupada and fully surrender unto Him."

Nice.

Ys Bk.Nrsingha.

HK!

All Glories to the Ascendency,Prefect Example.

[quote][cite] maah!:[/cite]The only way there could be a positive relationship between NM and ISKCON is if NM were to suddenly realize who Srila Prabhupada really is--his eternal spiritual master Sri Caitya Guru Prabhupada and fully surrender unto Him. [/quote]

[br]I always thought Caitya Guru was Lord Paramatama who resides in everyones heart. What does Caitya Guru Prabhupada mean? Does it mean Prabhupada is Caitya Guru lord paramatama in everyones heart or something else.[br]

This reminds me the saga of the early Christians who had to make JC into a god of kinds, and then in just some 300 years as member of trinity. In the same way Swaminaran is god, Ramakrisna is an avatara and now Prabhupada is Caitya Guru. Let us see where will we arrive...

Guru is one! Saksad-Hari! Something like that!

Is ur intent in employing the deityfing Srila Prabhupada card a red-herring like strategy or not?

...'85'85'85'85.............

The Holy Trinity is already there as introduced perfectly by Mahaprabhu; achintya-bheda-abheda tattva.

That u know already,isnt it?

Jaya Gauranga!

CAREFUL OF MUNDANE MINIMALISATION OR MAYAVADA LIKE MAXIMISATION OF THE MAJESTIC ASCENDANCY;VAISNAVA-THAKAR. However one should also not use one as excuse for the other,isnt it!

Prabhupada writes;"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead.'a0Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru."

Srila Prabhupada is revealing his position as the jagad-guru. Srila Prabhupada distributed the Holy Name (thru his books) all over the world. Krishna is His pure devotee Prabhupadas property to give.This is Vaisnava-Thakar. KNOW IT!!

Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya 7.12:

"'85in the Dvapara-yuga one could satisfy Krsna or Visnu only by worshiping opulently according to the pancaratriki system, but in the age of Kali one can satisfy and worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead Hari simply by chanting His holy name." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura explains that unless one is directly empowered by the causeless mercy of Krsna, one cannot become the spiritual master of the entire world (jagad-guru). One cannot become an acarya simply by mental speculation. The true acarya presents Krsna to everyone by preaching the holy name of the Lord throughout the world. Thus the conditioned souls, purified by chanting the holy name, are liberated from the blazing fire of material existence. In this way, spiritual benefit grows increasingly full, like the waxing moon in the sky. The true acarya, the spiritual master of the entire world, must be considered an incarnation of Krsnas mercy. Indeed, he is personally embracing Krsna. He is therefore the spiritual master of all the varnas (brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra) and all the asramas (brahmacarya, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa). Since he is understood to be the most advanced devotee, he is called paramahamsa-thakura. Thakura is a title of honor offered to the paramahamsa. Therefore one who acts as an acarya, directly presenting Lord Krsna by spreading His name and fame, is also to be called paramahamsa-thakura."

Sri Guru is ONE. And He is everyones guru, eternally. It is He, dwelling in the heart, Who destroys with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance (BG 10.11) when a sincere soul accepts His external, complete manifestations and worships, serves and hears from Him. He manifests Himself completely, externally in Acaryas like Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and others in His Sri Guru Disciplic Succession. They are in chain of succession (not fan of succession as NM claims) but He is the same Person, our eternal spiritual master appearing in different forms of service to Himself and Sri Krishna, which is sometimes described as Guru massaging His own leg. When we speak of Sri Guru it does not mean just any guru. It means the One form He (Sri Caitya Guru) manifests as His own external form, according to time and circumstances, the form He authorizes and accepts. As well as Srila Prabhupadas books being the law-books for the next 10,000 years, by sincere worship of the form of Srila Prabhupada, the Sri Caitya Guru in the heart will accept the service and purify and advance the soul. This does not mean there will not be successive sri gurus, liberated devotees, who will be the mouthpiece to speak the specific heart to heart instructions of Sri Caitya Guru to His neophite disciple, however, they will not accept worship, but instruct to worship the divine form of the Yuga Dharma Hare Krishna Nama Samkirtan Acarya, shaktyavesh avatara form, Srila Prabhupada!! The disciple will understand that the current external form, the form of Srila Prabhupada, the Caitya guru, Sri Guru Nityananda Prabhu and Sri Krishna Himself are simultaneously one and different.

CC uc0u256 di 1.58: Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a Himself."

" The soul of the material world is Visnu, or the Supersoul. Devotional service to the Lord entails service to the Supersoul. One process is to find the root of the tree, and the next to water the root". BG 5.4

After training, blessings and liberation, when one is in touch with his eternal spiritual master within..

"But when the mind is conquered, one voluntarily agrees to abide by the dictation of the Personality of Godhead, who is situated within the heart of everyone as Paramatma. Real yoga practice entails meeting the Paramatma within the heart and then following His dictation." BG 6.6

No jiva can be the medium of the service of the Absolute to another jiva. Devotional service is accepted only through Sri Guru Nityananda Prabhu and His Divine Mercy Manifestations.

" Individual souls are under the direction of Nityananda. They receive their service of Sri Gaurasundar, i.e. of Krsna, at his hands. Nityananda is not a jiva. He is Divinity. He is the ultimate source of the jiva. The jiva is a potency of Nityananda. No jiva can be the medium of the service of the Absolute to another jiva. The Absolute alone may communicate His service to the separable constituents of Himself. This is the real nature of the function of the guru.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. This entire article by Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura is entitled Associates of Sri Caityanya. http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/teaching06.htm

Maah, can you please answer a few questions,

maah: "by sincere worship of the form of Srila Prabhupada, the Sri Caitya Guru in the heart will accept the service and purify and advance the soul."

What about all other sampradayas who dont worship Srila Prabhupada, how will they make progress? Do they have any chance?

maah: " however, they will not accept worship, but instruct to worship the divine form of the Yuga Dharma Hare Krishna Nama Samkirtan Acarya, shaktyavesh avatara form, Srila Prabhupada!!"

Will it be a part of sanatana dharma now onwards that all the successive gurus of future will not accept worship and only Srila Prabhupada will be worshipped?

servant
dweller-in-peace

This question
What about all other sampradayas who dont worship Srila Prabhupada, how will they make progress? Do they have any chance?

should really be a separate thread. I do not think it is the issue in this partiucular case, because followers of NM (so I was told by a friend of mind who defected) do have SPs picture on the altar and they do worship him as an acharya etc.,

Now u understand better Acarya-avatara ccd! Jaya! Everything becomes revealed in due course of time.
This is Bhakti-Yoga,u dont have do anything,it is already done for u. Just have to surrender!

Jaya Sri Guru,The Majestic.

Ysvt.

Ps No such thing really as I,me,mine guru. Simply adulteration. Isnt it?

Jaya Nitai!

Guru does not have to even be a devotee....Srila Prabhupada accepted the advice of a Printer,hence he changed his book strategy and printed quality books .Accepting that his guru was instructing him through this sincere helpful person.

Yes Sri Guru is in every atom.

Also the 11th Canto description of diiferent type of Guru is nice too.

Never give up on Guru!

Actually one can give up all he likes. He will never ever ever ever ever give up on u!

JUST DEPEND ON GURU!

This Is The Perfect Escape!

All Glories To Srila Prabhupada- The Principle And The Person- This Is Vaisnava Thakur- Ascendency Majestic.

NITYANANDA-RAMA BOLA

The offenseless chanter of the holy name of the Lord is as auspicious as the

Lord Himself, and the movement of pure devotees of the Lord all over the

world can at once change the troublesome face of the world.

- Srila Prabhupada

[quote][cite] Nrsingha:[/cite] No such thing really as I,me,mine guru. Simply adulteration. Isnt it?
[/quote] Take a good night sleep Prabhu. We are not jnanis. In bhakti yoga, I me and mine are all used in the service. And it is your guru who will speak up on your behalf to allow you to enter the spiritual world in a proper association. If he does not know you and if his guru does not know him, what sort of parampara is that?
You can have personal relationship with Prabhupada, but you should act in such a way that he will notice you. Not that you just praise him, it is one of the offences to praise too much.

Yes exactly no mundane I,me,mine Guru. Very important to realise that,isnt it?

"You can have personal relationship with Prabhupada."

Yes,I am consider myself very,very fortunate to have began to awaken personal relationship with Srila Prabhupada. An ever-increasing Darshan. Ki Jaya!

Yes Sri Guru canvess to Pancha-Tattva on our behalf according to his mercy.

I heard that this can be like Kripa-Sakti.

Ki Jaya!

Ysvt.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

"What about all other sampradayas who dont worship Srila Prabhupada, how will they make progress? Do they have any chance?"

Certainly everyone gets the results of their surrender in whichever form they put their faith, as the Lord sees everything and responds from within. BG 7:21 "As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity." Any practicing Christian will attest to effect of prayers. But we are immensely fortunate that after lifetimes of trying this and that, getting progress this way and that, we came into contact with Sri Guru in the disciplic succession from Sriman Mahaprabhu. And by the mercy of Them we can attain the highest goal of spiritual existence, and that in this most degraded of ages! Those who worship others get the result of that. Sri Isopanishad Mantra 13 "It is said that one result is obtained by worshiping the supreme cause of all causes and that another result is obtained by worshiping what is not supreme. All this is heard from the undisturbed authorities, who clearly explained it."

"Will it be a part of sanatana dharma now onwards that all the successive gurus of future will not accept worship and only Srila Prabhupada will be worshipped?"

That is how we will know them. We will realize that they know us by heart through dreams, emotions and intelligence given from within. They will instruct us, educate us, help us, suffer for us, pray for us according to our pradhaba karma in specific service to Sri Guru Srila Prabhupada. Our eternal guru will guide us personally through one form and accept worship through another.

"should really be a separate thread. I do not think it is the issue in this partiucular case, because followers of NM (so I was told by a friend of mind who defected) do have SPs picture on the altar and they do worship him as an acharya etc."

They are mislead. The eternal spiritual husband/swami/guru demands chastity. We are all prakriti to His purusha. Imagine a woman having a husband and a lover on the side. She may claim she has both but from the husbands side this is not acceptable. Srila Prabhupada appeared in a dream and was asked what he thought of the devotees who had gone to Sridar Swami. He replied, "They have replaced me." So that is clear, that no matter what they think, He considers that they replaced him, meaning he is not with them. We are the seen, not the seers, we are the beggars and He is the provider, It is not up to us to decide what he will and will not accept. He is the transcendental autocrat. < Look it up. Srila Gour Govinda Swami also confirmed that once Sri Guru has been replaced, (and that so NEEDLESSLY) why would he continue to keep guiding that faithless disciple? In the rare case of Mula Prakriti, due to her reviving her faith in Srila Prabhupada through compiling the early pastimes of Him with various persons in India in her book, Sri Guru gave her visions of only Srila Prabhupada having what she required at the time of her death. She told told NM that she was depending on Srila Prabhupada, not him. Unchaste disciples think Srila Prabhupada is dead and gone. That is their greatest misfortune. Thinking we are more advanced than we are is a cause of falldown. Thinking we dont need Srila Prabhupadas external form to guide us is also a mistake. That occurs with many because we have been hurt and cheated by some so-called gurus. Our real guru wants nothing better for us that that we should meet His authorized external form to go forward. That person will demonstrate perfect surrender to Srila Prabhupada and inspire us beyond any other to do the same. We have to pray for Him to show us who it is. Not decide and then pray to get it, like many of the NM people did, but simply and open-heartedly cry for Him.

"Ps No such thing really as I,me,mine guru. Simply adulteration. Isnt it?"

Actually that is the only real I and Mine. Sriman Mahaprabhu quote" I am spirit soul, eternal servant of Sri Guru and Sri Krishna" and He is mine, i am His. This i am mine must be developed more and more.

"Guru does not have to even be a devotee....Srila Prabhupada accepted the advice of a Printer,hence he changed his book strategy and printed quality books .Accepting that his guru was instructing him through this sincere helpful person."

"Guru" is the best devotee..
However, it is right that Sri Caitya Guruji will/can use anyone to instruct as He sees fit. Srila Prabhupada is on the level to see like that, we are not. If we artificially try to see like that, we may think we should worship the printer. Or take his advice on every thing. We worship Srila Prabhupada and at some point we will realize Him, who He is in full, then we can see Him acting through anything, even a flower or the wind. Without that realization we can also be mistaken and take NM for Sri Guru or take wrong advice from printer or neglect the Sri Gurus external form--which would be something like knowing Sri Krishna is everywhere and thus avoiding the sri archa vigraha.

"I heard that this can be like Kripa-Sakti"

Thats all it is for us fallen kaliyuga people. We cannot do anything. Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

If you are unable to see what is sublime yes you will be confused!However a madhum adhikari who is cent per cent sincere ....who has discrimination will be unstoppable in his personal vision of how to adjust and please his guru.He is fixed...nistha!

Unfortunately Narayana maharaja possesed envious sentiments ,which are obvious symptoms of a lesser preacher.....he is not uttama so their Rasika -guru assertions fail......all because he attacked srila Prabhupada personally.Though his former disciples worship his photo they took re-initiation.....which is offensive .And because Narayanna maharaj initiated them even though their guru,our srilaPrabhupada had not fallen he becomes offensive!....Krishna is not confused or illusioned like there dual cheating mentalities.

> Srila Prabhupada appeared in a dream and was asked what he thought of the devotees who had gone to Sridar Swami. He replied, "They have replaced me."

Didnt he instruct GBC to go to Sridhar Swami in case of some misunderstandings. Quote available?

Theres a dream-related room conversation, January 28 1977, Bhuvanesvar.

[quote][cite] maah!:[/cite]
"No jiva can be the medium of the service of the Absolute to another jiva."
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. This entire article by Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura is entitled Associates of Sri Caityanya. http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/teaching06.htm[/quote]

That point is completely ignored in Iskcon.

[quote][cite]:[/cite]An advanced devotee situated on the platform of spontaneity is already very expert in uc0u347 u257 stric instruction, logic and argument. When he comes to the point of eternal love for Ku7771 u7779 u7751 a, no one can deviate him from that position, neither by argument nor by u347 u257 stric evidence.[/quote] -Founder-Acarya.

Jaya Pitata-Pavana!

[quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite][quote][cite] maah!:[/cite]
"No jiva can be the medium of the service of the Absolute to another jiva."
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. This entire article by Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura is entitled Associates of Sri Caityanya. http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/teaching06.htm[/quote]

That point is completely ignored in Iskcon.[/quote]

How so,prabhu?

Ysvt.

Because in Iskcon Srila Prabhupada (or a current guru) is considered the medium of the service to Krsna.

Next sentence explains the empowerment: The Absolute alone may communicate His service to the separable constituents of Himself. This is the real nature of the function of the guru.

This caught my attention as well:
Unless this fact is borne in mind, the conditioned soul may be tempted to undervalue the constant guidance of the guru on the hypocritical plea of following in the footsteps of the eternally free pure devotees.

[quote][cite] VEDA:[/cite]Next sentence explains the empowerment: The Absolute alone may communicate His service to the separable constituents of Himself. This is the real nature of the function of the guru.
[/quote]
The real nature of the function of the guru is to explain the role of Sri Guru to his disciples. Akhanda guru tattva - guru is one. In Iskcon akhanda guru tattva means: there is only one guru - Prabhupada.

Most excellent,Veda Prabhu.

Not sure I am understanding where u r coming from Kula,just yet!

Ysvt.

However though there is one guru,Srila Prabhupada,he is not limited.....his followers have an almost unlimited ability within his instructions to preach.Presently there is thousands of devotees with their own mood ,which is symptomatic of what was given to them by their own guru.Srila Prabhupadas own disciples.Hence it is not easily approachable for other devotees not party to there uniquePrabhupada desire or preaching mission.For example Chinese yatra......

So is Narayanna maharajas mood compatible when it wrongly suggests you need a rasika vaisnava!.......how is this suitable for practical implication within Iskcon utilisation ?.....We have enough difference within the One guru....There would naturally be a subjugation of srila Prabhupadas moods ...in my humble opinion.

Because in modern Gaudiya Vaishnavism there is so much emphasis on idividual gurus, and not enough emphasis on Sri Guru, we see so much tension between disciples of various gurus. Actually Narayana Maharaya goes out of his way NOT to contradict or criticize Srila Prabhupada, because he knows the militant mood of so many of his followers and disciples. At times that mood is more of a personality cult than a healthy respect for ones guru.

Yes,Sri Guru is principle and person. But the principle exists through the person. It is not like the principle stands alone. This is Transcendental Personalism. Isnt it?

Ysvt.

[quote][cite] Nrsingha:[/cite]Yes,Sri Guru is principle and person. But the principle exists through the person. It is not like the principle stands alone. This is Transcendental Personalism. Isnt it?
[/quote]

The principle exists through the person but also despite the person of a particular guru. You cant expect all gurus to be clones of your own ideal teacher. You should study Sri Guru and His Grace.

"The product of the hladini shakti is love of Godhead, which has two divisions-namely pure love of Godhead and adulterated love of Godhead. Only when the hladini shakti emanates from Sri Krsna and is bestowed upon the living being to attract Him does the living entitiy become a pure lover of God. But when the same hladini shakti is adulterated by the external material energy and emanated from the living being, it does not attract Krsna; on the contrary the living being becomes attracted by the glamour of the material energy. At that time instead of becoming mad with love of Godhead, the living being becomes mad after material sense enjoyment, and because of his association with the qualitative modes of material nature, he is captured by its interactions of distressful feelings." (Caitanya-caritamrita, AdiLila, chapter 4, Verse 68, purport)

Who bestows this shakti? Sri Krishna in the form of Sri Guru. ""No jiva can be the medium of the service of the Absolute to another jiva. The Absolute alone may communicate His service to the separable constituents of Himself." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur." "Those who have other gurus cannot obtain this energy to attract Sri Krishna; on the contrary the living being becomes attracted by the glamour of the material energy." This is not the purpose of Srila Prabhupadas society.

Though they take and use everything His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada has left for his own faithful followers, they promote their agenda by looting Srila Prabhupadas sublime name and advertising NMs minimal non-servant-based so-called friendship to fool others into their camp. And it didnt stop with Srila Prabhupada. NM even fabricated a story that Srila Gour Govinda Swami had secretly met with him once and honored him highly just to attract Maharajas faithless followers, too. As Sri Govinda das points out, this behavior is offensive. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja never met NM and he spoke forcefully several times about not leaving Srila Prabhupada and assured the devotees they would get everything if they just remained true to Srila Prabhupada.

Neophyte devotees, which we all are--those who are not firmly fixed at Srila Prabhupadas Lotus feet, are subject to being mislead into NMs camp, which is why ISKCON has a policy of not allowing NMs followers to mix with us. How many have already been allured, starting with Tamal Krishna? The eventual ramifications of this are that TKs men (now NMs men) are trying to take over Srila Prabhupadas founded temple in Fiji and a struggle is ongoing. Srila Prabhupada wanted to boil the milk, not dilute it with weird bodily, all-one matha conceptions--which none of his so-called Godbrothers proposed until His Divine Grace did everything by himself, created the house in which the whole world can live, with no help from any of them, then physically departed. Those who somehow do remain fixed at Srila Prabhupadas Lotus feet and value the bliss of that single conception above all others, who request Srila Prabhupadas ex-disciples and followers to do the same, are called "offenders" by NMs camp and shunned. The covering of illusion, which is under Sri Krishnas control, does not permit them to see what His Divine Grace mercifully allows us to see--we dont need anyone but Srila Prabhupada; but because the Supreme Absolute Truth is situated in their hearts, seems like this Truth gives them a bad feeling which they dont like, so to conceal this and strike back, they accuse us of the worst spiritual crime possible--"vaisnava aparadha".

So how can there be a positive future?

Really like ur insighful and learned input Maah prabhu.

Do have Blog? R u situated in UK?

Obeisances!

Jaya Srila Prabhupada and his faithful followers!

Hare Krishna!

> The real nature of the function of the guru is to explain the role of Sri Guru to his disciples. Akhanda guru tattva - guru is one. In Iskcon akhanda guru tattva means: there is only one guru - Prabhupada.

Isnt this the ritvik idea instead? SP spoke several times on vande gurUn (CC invocation).

Actually the struggle in fiji is by former Prabhupada disciples...The Punja Brothers ...who have always being inclined to narayanna maharaja because they do not have a structured devotee environment like iskcon.Hence they are the controllers rather than the guru.Since they were local GBC representatives.They always had a problem with Tamala krishna goswamis disciples.....Since they are also indian they are not easily cheated by this foreign naryanna maharaja mood.Hence they always were intent of removing these devotee obstacles.....Srila Tamala krishnas disciples are the future of iskcon within the south pacific in my humble opinion.

Yes veda you are indeed right.....We are Bhaktivedanta followers...... which at this time is many....individual guru united in purpose.....to please srila Prabhupada .Unified in purpose to please srila ac Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada ....the disciplic succession carries on.It did not stop on july 9th 1977...Exactly how this is to be acheived is very interesting in my opinion.The leaders of Iskcon and gaudiya vaisnava culture are at a cross roads in one sense as to exactly how a worldwide society will encapsulate the proper Prabhupada siddhanta.While dealing with the expected hundreds of guru.

Maah prabhu... yes many devotees are indeed curious about the narayanna camp ...however the real problem within Iskcon is situated within the Disciples of SRILA PRABHUPADA ....they jumped the Waka,which is maori for war canoe.Apart from being shocked at seeing the group of srila Prabhupada disciples intent on working against Iskcon,who appear on the video in holland....there seems to be an inability to bow to those more empowered to spread krishna conciousness.Even if these are only relatively newer devotees.To find a place gracefully within the preaching mission.As is the natural passage of time they should have learnt to see with an non-envious spirit.However mayadevi is intent on her service which is to keep iskcon free from outside speculation and maintain the purity of purpose within the body of iskcon.Tamala krishna goswamis legacy was to help differentiate what is within the Iskcon siksa ....Srila Rupa goswami Prabhupada was he iskcon?Were all the previous Archarya Iskcon?Sri Sanatana goswami Prabhupada?Did you know that the accepted teachings of Kanistha,madyuma and uttama adhikari is from Ananta Vasudeva maharaja our srila Prabhupadas godbrother..Is he part of Iskcon.....no they are not .But are they our siksa guru?Obviously yes.

So what parts of our vaisnava family culture do we allow to play a prominent role in Iskcon?Just being retrospective is in my humble opinion negative and disempowering.Accepting what ever is favourable for our devotional service with courage and conviction within the parameters established by our founder -Archarya is extremely important in my humble opinion.We cannot divorce ourselves from our shared history within the Gaudiya line..However Narayanna maharaj devotees seem naturally anti Iskcon since they many times are ex-Iskcon.So what positive hope is there within the short term?

"Actually Narayana Maharaya goes out of his way NOT to contradict or criticize Srila Prabhupada,"
This is probably true..and ever so often he slips up. So we know him. And we dont need him.

"Because in ISKCON Srila Prabhupada (or a current guru) is considered the medium of the service to Krsna."

"Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul." BG 13.23
Everything is running under Sri Krishnas authority. ISKCON is His movement for bringing the conditioned souls to His Lotus feet. Having a neophyte guru within ISKCON is not the highest standard, however, for most of us, full of desires for profit, adoration and distinction, it is the best we deserve this lifetime, it matches our sukriti level, and we obtain those material so-called benedictions due us while carrying on with work for Sri Guru and Sri Krishna, working hard, burning up our prabadha karma--from gurus down to the children. Because this is His movement, we are under Sri Guru Srila Prabhupadas Divine stamp. He remains with us in our heart helping us and after death we will be put into a better situation in the next life to serve him in His Sri Guru form better. Many disciples see their ISKCON guru as helping them serve Srila Prabhupada, and more and more the gurus are instructing like this. Best if some of them become at least madyama and understand who Srila Prabhupada really is and select the self-effulgent acarya among them to advance them so they can act as better gurus for those on lower level.

Cant agree that it takes a structured devotee environment for souls to be faithful to Si Guru Srila Prabhupada or that a lack of it is the cause of one not being faithful. NM flies to Fiji every year to cultivate the extremely wealthy Punja Brothers and other ISKCON members. According to Fiji devotees, the two elder Punjas and one wife were disciples of Srila Prabhupada and have not replaced him, two were disciples of TK and left him to get reinitiated by NM, and youngest one took initiation from NM. Sadly, Indians do get cheated. In my humble opinion, Sri Guru, Srila Prabhupadas followers are the future, because, like so many ISKCON gurus followers, TKs disciples do not understand sri guru tattva, Who Srila Prabhupada is, Who Sri Guru is, they do not discriminate, they consider them the same.

Dear Nrsingha prabhu,

Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Obeisances to you. Simplicity is Vaisnavism. You seem like a simple person. i am the insignificant dog of Sri Guru Srila Prabhupada, most prominent of the Sri Guru Parampara Acaryas in Kali Yuga, and of all Sri Guru Acaryas, both before and after Him. i dont have any blog or website.

"Exactly how this is to be acheived is very interesting in my opinion."

Currently it will not happen with the masses like it did during Srila Prabhupadas time. Some individuals will cry at the mess of their lives and the society, will pray to Srila Prabhupada for guidance. He will show them His external form, which not everyone is prepared to accept or even let live, because it is Kali Yuga and so many bad dangerous qualities reside in even the best of men. Compare it to the kirtans during the time of Sriman Mahaprabhu. Many were for the masses, but those which took place in the house of Srivas Thakur were done behind locked doors for a much smaller group. ISKCON is for the masses--gradual purification along with economic development, sense gratification etc. are for them. When they are purified and they want only Him, the Lord, situated in their heart, does the needful, has them take birth among His real devotees; this may take few lifetimes. Srila Prabhupada said "third generation" will be devotees, that means many of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakurs disciples are taking birth again in ISKCON to become perfect devotees.

"there seems to be an inability to bow to those more empowered to spread krishna conciousness.Even if these are only relatively newer devotees."

Why would Sri Krishna subject His empowered representative to this?

"We cannot divorce ourselves from our shared history within the Gaudiya line"

Our shared history ends with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada. How that history is perceived is a crucial point and it will always be different. The disciplic succession is recorded in the beginning of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita As It Is. After Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur comes Yuga Dharma Hare Krishna Nama Acarya, Shaktavesh Avatara, Sri Nityananda Prabhus Divine Mercy Manifestation His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. The chain of disciplic succession or sri guru parampara does not go sideways around Srila Prabhupada, picking up a few extra here and there, nor does it divide into two or two-hundred. It travels like a chain, one by one. NM is out of the loop, as are his followers. The other bona fide disciples of the Acarya Thakur are the servants of the next Acarya--who is not their god-brother, but their own self-effulgent Guru Maharaja in another form. But most regrettably they dont know that--only a very few have realized.

"So what parts of our vaisnava family culture do we allow to play a prominent role in Iskcon?"

Our family is whoever loves, respects, serves Srila Prabhupada, and those in disciplic chain before Him and after Him (Who is the best devotee of Him, He Himself, massaging His own leg) and those He acknowledged as great devotees and Acaryas. Those who claim to love, respect, or worship Sri Krishna without Srila Prabhupada or who pretend to accept Him while devoting themselves to others, are not in our family.

""Unless you get the mercy from Sri Nityananda, there is no hope of getting mercy from Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu. And therefor there is no hope of approaching Sri Sri Radha and Krishna. This is our process."

"The cognitive faculty of the individual soul can have no ground to stand upon unless the Divinity Himself condescends to be the legs as well as the ground on which he is to stand to function at all. This function of the divinity is performed by the guru. As a matter of fact the Divinity actually reveals Him only to Himself. The individual soul is a separable constituent of the guru. It is only when he happens to be associated by his own free choice with the guru in a completely dependent manner that he can be on the plane of the gurus service of the Divinity. He may or may not choose to be associated. The guru may or may not chose to admit him to his association. When there is active willing assent to such association on the part of both then it is possible for the individual souls to attain to the service of the Divinity in the really conscious form." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

The problem is that the personal absorption which the devotee has with his diksa guru,Srila Tamala -krishna goswami who is the present representative of our Founder- Archarya....has been attacked many times by senior managers.They the punja family ...Jaganatha punja and co.. were the authorised GBC representatives,blessed by his divine grace Srila Prabhupada.The punjas considered themselves to be the real adminstrators of iskcon Fiji and decided to attack the known structured chain of command.Who were actually Tamala-krishna diksa disciples..The Punjas were extremely expert.And actively moved to stop Srila Tamala-krishna Goswami from coming to fiji for several years,by refusing to allow him to get a visa..
But this backfired on them when his disciples who were the real preachers and substantial financial supporters rejected them openly in the devotee forum..Now that they were not favourable to the service of Srila Prabhupada and Srila Tamala -Krishna goswami together in unison.They wanted to get rid of Tamala-krishna goswami.
Hence when this was revealed there was an open rebellion.Since most were his disciples
.The Punjas jumped the waka....left srila Prabhupada for the loose structure of Narayanna maharaja.And have now said they will build temples in New Zealand for his Gaudiya team.They attack our preaching to our congregation because many are openly envious being ex-iskcon.What do you expect though when these ex-iskcon devotees continued to sell dead cows in their super markets!

The Srila Tamala -Krishna Inspired devotees like myself after thirty years have a reasonable appreciation of Guru Tattva ..Also we have practically no Prabhupada disciples left......In most cases in our Zone or yatra,we are the senior people left.We also built these temples....inspired by his divine grace Srila Prabhupada and a few disciples.But the huge financal burden ,the tens of millions of dollars were infact paid by our generation.Hence naturally our concerns are paramount,since we have invested our money in our temples.Since we are the locals,are loyal to our guru and his Divine grace Srila Prabhupada our preaching is very progressive ....sunday feast we had 250 guests...at least.Some weeks five hundred guests.With many becoming devotees.Hence as you comment by preaching we naturally receive the mercy of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri nityananda Ram....hare krisha Maah prabhu

Absolutely super-excellent Maah prabhu!
At last an actual purveyor of truth.
Thank you!
All glories to ur service!

Ohe Vaisnava-Thakur.

Hare Krishna!

Most furtunate to have ur online association. U r true sisya,for sure! Isnt it!
Iskcon Guru Vrnda Ki Jaya!
Ysvt.

Love the quote of srila Bhaktisiddanta Prabhu.....where can i find it please prabhu....?When there is active willing assent to such association on the part of both then it is possible for the individual souls to attain to the service of the Divinity in the really conscious form." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

Sorry Maah Prabhu where can i find this wonderful quote?

Associates of Sri Caitanya:
http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/teaching06.htm

There are other sublime teachings by our sri guru Acaryas presented here:

http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/index.htm

You are both blessed because He allowed it to enter you, its a rare occurrence. Hare Krishna and Obeisances. Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Please excuse my offenses, Sri Govinda das, if i made you feel bad at all.

Associates of Sri Caitanya:
http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/teaching06.htm

There are other sublime teachings by our sri guru Acaryas presented here:

http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/teachings/index.htm

You are both blessed because He allowed it to enter you, its a rare occurrence. Hare Krishna and Obeisances. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Please excuse my offenses.

Please accept my sincere humble obeisances Maah.Prabhu.....All glories to Gaura-govinda swami....thank you ...

Later that evening, when almost everyone had left, some members of the assembly commented to Srila babaji Maharaja, "That very learned land-owner was absorbed in devotional ecstasy. We could not see any manifestation of material consciousness in him. He was devoid of worldly consciousness." Another person sitting nearby, who had always heard that Srila Gaura-Kishora dasa Babaji Maharaja was very straightforward with everyone, inquired, "That person was so immersed in various loving devotional ecstasies that he could not even walk by his own efforts. How is it that you can say he was not on the highest platform of bhakti?"

Srila Gaura-Kishora dasa Babaji Maharaja replied, saying, "After speaking with him for a few moments, I could understand that he had no good intentions in his performance of devotional service. One cannot measure a persons devotion by the approval of the general mass. If a person is not serious in his devotional practice, then even if he exhibits the symptoms of renunciation, non-attachment, and various ecstasies, still he should not be considered to have real renunciation or detachment. As soon as a difficult test comes, his false renunciation will cease. Detachment seeks out those who are actually fixed in their intention to perform devotional service. When performing practical devotional service, we should never exhibit our devotional ecstasies.