Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Q.5] How can Kadamba Kanana Swami accept disciples if Jayavadta swami is still living?
Q.6] How can Bon Maharaj accept disciples when Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was still on the planet?

There was a good paper form SAC on this one.

How can someone who is material give you complete spiritual Name that is non different from Krishna and is the most valuable gift?

As was the case with maha-vishnu swami also......before his departure to the spiritual world.

Haribol

May I please know even if so many days have passed why I m not getting answer to this question ...........

http://www.dandavats.com/wp-content/uploads/SukadevRFINAL.doc
Maybe you will find your answer there.. (There is no rule like that anyway in the sastra, it is just a formality). There was a separate paper on this as well from SAC.

[quote][cite] onkar:[/cite]

If this is true that
Q.1] How could Madhvacharya accept disciples even though Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa is still living (on the planet Earth)...?
Q.2] How could Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa accept disciples if Narada Muni is an eternal personality..........?
Q.3] How could Narada accept disciples if His spiritual master Lord Brahma is alive ...........?
Q.4] How could Brahma accept disciples if his spiritual master Lord of the universe, lord of all lords, Yogeshwar, Bhagavan, Parampita, Parameshwar Lord Krishna is present?[/quote]

If you can go to any of these personalities and ask them for diksa.... by all means, DO IT! -------------------

If you cant, you follow the standard method of finding a qualified guru and humbly asking him to take you as their disciple.----------------------

But to answer your question directly:
In Vedic times the system was that after completing their guru-kula education and paying guru-daksina, ANY brahmana would start to accept disciples without waiting for their guru to pass on.

Since you are indeed adament my new freind onkar prabhu please allow me a day or two to try and furnish an appropriate answer...hare krishna.

YES onkar prabhu ....While srila Prabhupadas was in New Zealand,he instructed siddhaswarupa swami to bring his disciplies to him personally.He had been initiating some of his followers,but after attempting to surrender to his divine grace .....he chose to come under his jurisdiction.He was informed that while in the prescence of ones spiritual master one should infact bring such devotees to him....That is the general application ...and accepted Vaisnava etiquette amongst those who are intent on following the previous Archaryas moods and devotional behaviour.Due to local politics the Haribols as his group was called ,sometimes clashed with his own ISKCON Management in the shape of Madhudwisa swami.Srila Prabhupada was very expert and was able to accommodate the two factions.

Question 1....Madhva archarya took initiation of krishna dwaipayanna vyasadeva.....yes.He took disciples because his gurus mood is to perform austerity ....Vyasadeva is the independent personality of Godhead.Since he is Bhagavan...... we as jiva are meant to serve his mood and desire.....He is infact the Supreme enjoyer of our preaching activities....which allows his sublime devotee Madhva Archarya to take more credit ...become glorified for establishing sanatana dharma once again.Since krishna takes more pleasure when his devotee is glorified....than himself.

>.Madhva archarya took initiation of krishna dwaipayanna vyasadeva.....
Actually ihe showed him his tikas for approval
> He took disciples because his gurus mood is to perform austerity ....
Tyagi should not take many disciples
> Vyasadeva is the independent personality of Godhead.Since he is Bhagavan......
No, he is an empovered jiva
> we as jiva are meant to serve his mood and desire....
Vyasa is a jiva.
> .He is infact the Supreme enjoyer of our preaching activities....
???? (back to school)
>which allows his sublime devotee Madhva Archarya to take more credit ...
Madvacarya is the third incarnation of Vayu (also of Hanuman)
> Madva is become glorified for establishing sanatana dharma once again.
We do not follow the philosophy of Madhva.
> Since krishna takes more pleasure when his devotee is glorified....than himself.
He certainly does.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite]
> Vyasadeva is the independent personality of Godhead.Since he is Bhagavan......
No, he is an empovered jiva
> we as jiva are meant to serve his mood and desire....
Vyasa is a jiva. [/quote]

[br][br]

>>> Ref. VedaBase => (BTG # 34-01, 2000) Corrections:[br][br]
In Vyasadeva: The Literary Incarnation of God (Sept./Oct. 1999), Vyasadeva is identified as "a saktyavesa-avatara, an eternally liberated jiva (a soul like you or I, not the Supreme Lord) particularly empowered with an opulence of God." One of our readers, Janajanmadi Dasa, has written with additional information: [br]
"In Tattva-sandarbha (16.2) Srila Jiva Gosvami quotes Visnu Purana 3.4.2'965 to explain that in every divya-yuga (cycle of the four cosmic ages) a different jiva soul usually is empowered as a saktyavesa-avatara to take the position of Vyasa, the divider of the Vedas, but in this present divya-yuga Lord Narayana Himself appeared as Vyasa. Therefore the present Vyasa is Krsna-Dvaipayana Vyasa, for He is Lord Narayana Him-self and not an ordinary saktyavesa-avatara Vyasa."

Srila Narada muni is especially empowered because he has a spiritual body.Such personalities are all on the level of empowered Isvaras.....Whose specific mood and desires are completely non-envious so they mingle and groove with seeming ease.....with there inherent aim being to facilitate the Supreme lords pleasure.Such rules of devotional service for jivas are not relevent for those who are not within mayas prison house..Such Archaryas have the ability to adjust things ....accordingly to bring an increased rasa for his worshipful lord....and also his fully surrender devotees pleasure and eternal fame.....When a devotee becomes single pionted in his desire to please guru and krishna,krishna makes a personal arrangment to facilitate his sincere servant.Many times empowering them to further preach his glories....And then when krishna is faced by his own devotees loving sweet sincere attempts he ,Krishna looks at ways to test such a devotees devotional stamina.Many times destroying his material world and conceptions....Such was the initial blessing from Gaurakishore das babaji maharaja,when neophyte devotees asked for his blessings....There is an invisible chain of command,and nonenvious spirit to please and facilitate krishnas divine will....However within this is opportunity for such empowered personalitys to add their particular flavour and unique blessings.

I have no way of checking it and if the reader Janjanmadi is right at this particular moment of time. I only rely on Srila Prabhupada as per "He also incarnates as empowered living entities like Prithu and Vyasa'85" CC Madya 21.104

Such is the eternal nature of loving service between the Supreme isvara,his subordinate universal controllers....... and his finite but sincere servant.....as they dynamically look for ways to please krishna,While he attempts to bless his devotee.Which enlivens his sincere devotee into more outrageous ways of how to reawaken devotional servants for those who are nitya- baddha.....eternally conditioned.Pleased further krishna is eventually forced to make such a devotee his most confidential freind....like arjuna or bhismadeva.....In which case they are eternally engaged in such a sweet transcendental pastime.....eternally.

Question five....Such devotees like narada muni because of their sublime nature ,are actually able to do the impossible ....when it is inconjunction or harmonious with krishnas personal will and desire....Such arrangements are also to increase his devotees fame and transcendental glory.They are not interested in their own personal desires ,when they conflict with krishnas plans.Then Radhas Klahdini sakti,is able to perfectly transform ordinary desire into sublime eternal arrangments and devotional service......Then the impossible is possible ....because it is to please krishna or his empowered loving intimate associates....like Radha.This Sampradaya is not actually limited to our perceptions ,indeed it is to confuse and convince the non-devotees that it does not exist.....like the caste brahmanas .While for the non-envious it is an ARCHARYA line.Which one is required to become a humble servant ,intent on seeing the glorious nature of such maha- bhagvatas to be allowed to genuinely understand its sublime mysterys and qualities.All prospective devotees must approach the older devotees sincerely to properly be accepted in these understandings.....

So Lord Caitanya says, "Because people in general, by the influence of the illusory energy, they have forgotten their eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord, therefore the Lord Himself, as Krsna-dvaipayana Vyasa..." Krsna-dvaipayana Vyasa is considered to be a powerful incarnation of Krsna.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 20.121-124 -- New York, November 25, 1966

All the sages like Parvata Muni, Narada, Dhaumya, Vyasa the incarnation of God, Brhadasva, Bharadvaja and Parasurama and disciples, Vasistha, Indrapramada, Trita, Grtsamada, Asita, Kaksivan, Gautama, Atri, Kausika and Sudarsana were present.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 1.9.6, SB 1.9.7, SB 1.9.6-7

Badarayana (Vyasadeva): He is known as Krsna, Krsna-dvaipayana, Dvaipayana, Satyavati-suta, Parasarya, Parasaratmaja, Badarayana, Vedavyasa, etc. He was the son of Mahamuni Parasara in the womb of Satyavati prior to her betrothal with Maharaja Santanu, the father of the great general Grandfather Bhismadeva. He is a powerful incarnation of Narayana, and he broadcasts the Vedic wisdom to the world.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 1.9.6, SB 1.9.7, SB 1.9.6-7

I couldnt find anything written by Srila Prabhupada (searching for "vyasa" and "jiva" within 20 words apart) supporting the notion that vyasa is not visnu-tattva.

Thank you Pandu das for your sastric quote.....about Dwaipayana vyasadeva.....Even his father sri Parasa muni is an empowered isvara .He is the individual where our understanding of Bhagavan The possesor of all beauty,fame,knowledge,renunciation ,strength and wealth stems from.Hence the jiva can become supremely empowered ....according to the will of Sri krishna......Any devotee has the potential to step on the head of death.....Sri Krishnas other name is Kalasamvara ....the lord of time.When the devotee chants and become fixed in serving he naturally becomes transported to the timeless spiritual environment,even within this bodily environment. As was the example of Druhva maharaja...who stepped on the head of death to enter into the spiritual aeroplane.

Actually Brahma is not the actual producer....he is empowered by Govinda...... the adi-purusa,the original enjoyer ...Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajani...as is admitted within the brahma-samihta.They are vehicles for Krishnas, his many diverse and unlimited energys.But they are not the true possesors nor are they specifically allowed to enjoy seperately.....for too long without some material interruption taking place.Hence Brahma is delegated to father all nature of creatures which in its self is almost unlimited.But he is a delegated instrument.......through his vehicle krishna blesses sri narada his transcendental spaceman.

After all ,eventually if a devotee is blessed he will merely submit to this train or flow of devotional knowledge....Srila Prabhupada said krishna conciousness means to see everything moving and non-moving as under the sublime will and control of krishna.He is the original proprietor,enjoyer and best wellwisher of the living entity.

Sri Vyasa:
nArAyaNasyAMZajam http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs12337.htm
MBh 12.350.4-5 http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12c049.htm

Read your sacred text Veda prabhu ....Vyasadeva appears as a portion of the supreme lord...Thank you Prabhu.

"So Vyuc0u257 sadeva, he is also living entity, although he is empowered, so apau347 yat puruu7779 au7745 pu363 ru7751 am, he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead." October 14, 1975 explaining SB 1.7.2-4
u347 akty-u257 veu347 a'97sanaku257 di, pu7771 thu, vyu257 sa-muni
Empowered incarnations are those like the Kumu257 ras, King Pu7771 thu and Mahu257 -muni Vyu257 sa [the compiler of the Vedas]. (CC Adi. 1.67) - Saktiavesa avatara can be a jiva, and Narayana can expand himself in some cases too. Still it is not "independent personality of Godhead", as he is empowered, like Prithu, Parasurama etc., thus they are not Supreme enjoyer of our activities and we do not worship them on the altar in a deity form.

Sorry i made a mistake prabhus,vyasadeva is merely a portion of narayanna .....who is omnipotent,is able to be conscious of your thoughts and mine simultaneously ...Thankyou ccd and Veda prabhus...He is not the supreme enjoyer!...Merely empowered jiva.

prabhu kahe, vedanta-sutra isvara-vacana
vyasa-rupe kaila yaha sri-narayana

The Lord said, "Vedanta philosophy consists of words spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana in the form of Vyasadeva." (CC 1.7.106)

prabhu kahe,'97'93ami '91jiva'92, ati tuccha-jnana!
vyasa-sutrera gambhira artha, vyasa-bhagavan

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, '93I am an ordinary living being, and therefore My knowledge is very insignificant. However, the meaning of the Brahma-sutra is very grave because its author, Vyasadeva, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. (CC 2.25.91)

Since Sri Vyasa is described both as saktyavesa and Lord Himself Sri Jivas conclusion should be accepted.

it does not say Lord Himself, vyasa-bhagavan is the title he is given, not uncommon to such great persons be they jivas or not, isvara-vacan vyasa-rupe - means just that Lord spoke in the form of Vyasa, again completely consistent with the other statement that he is sakti avesa, there is no contradiction (and no quote from Visnu purana;-)

Brahma is sakti avesa (often a jiva), Narada is saktiavesa (liberated soul), Ananda T'eertha aka Madhvacarya is commonly identified with Madhva, the third avatara of Mukhya PrANa, the god of life, as given in the baLitthA sUkta of the Rg Veda. The first two avatAra-s are as HanumAn and BhImasena, and the third is Madhva. However, Madhvacarya is firmly set against the notion of accepting doctrines because they come from prophets or claimed gods - he refuses to accept that it is possible to derive a meaningful spiritual system based on any but the apauruseya texts (the Vedas/Upanishads/Shrutis etc). To think that members of parampara are "Lord Himself" is not consistent with the mood of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, even if they are plenary portions.

Youve somehow missed the end: ...vyasa-rupe kaila yaha sri-narayana

> no quote from Visnu purana;-)

In every Dwapara (or third) age, Vishuc0u110 u769 u, in the person of Vyasa,... http://sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp077.htm

Know, Maitreya, the Vy'e1sa called Krishu110 u769 a Dwaip'e1yana to be the deity N'e1r'e1yau110 u769 a; for who else on this earth could have composed the Mah'e1bh'e1rata? http://sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp078.htm

This verse is also quoted in Laghu bhagavatamrta 3.83. The next verse assigns the avesa version a secondary position:

84 In the scriptures it is said that Apantaratama Muni became Dvaipayana Vyasa. Is Vyasa a jiva who attained sayujya-mukti, or is He an amsa-avatara of Lord Visnu? Some say He is an avesa-avatara.

In CC 1.2.97 p. is Sri Vyasa classified in the 2nd prabhava group (fully potent as Sri Krsna). Also in CC 2.20.244 p.

> To think that members of parampara are "Lord Himself" is not consistent with the mood of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, even if they are plenary portions.

In our parampara list we have (aside Sri Vyasa) three visnu-tattvas - Sri Advaita, Sri Nityananda and Sri Caitanya.

>Is Vyasa a jiva who attained sayujya-mukti, or is He an amsa-avatara of Lord Visnu? Some say He is an avesa-avatara.
Lets go along the Laghu-bhagavatamrta and I will support that his is avesa of Narayana (be it sakti avesa type or not), still he acts as Vyasa in this yuga, with all the pastimes that make him act as he does.

>Sri Advaita, Sri Nityananda and Sri Caitanya.
But out of them we call Lord Himself Sri Caitanya, even the other two Prabhus are Visnu-tattva avataras. We do not worship Nityananda or Advaita separate (unless you are from Advaita parivara). We do not worship Vyasa separately (if at all outside of parampara), even if in this period he is not a jiva.

My dear ccd ...i will accept jiva goswamis conclusion ....Actually Veda prabhu This was infact my appreciation that Vyasadeva was the lord himself....Thank you ....This was what was accepted by my guru.....once again you are sastra chaksu....seeing through the eyes of the scripture..hare krishna

Im like a mere librarian. But thanks anyway.

Interesting Silver spoon when our srila Prabhupada was ordered.....

Srila Prabhupada once told my father (Sri Gaura Candra Gosvami) that it was at Radha-Damodara he received direct permission from his Gurudeva to go to the west and preach. Actually he said it was an order, not permission'85Srila Prabhupada told my father about his sphurti-darsana (revelation) at the puspa-samadhi of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and he said he understood this order was absolute because this happened at his Gurudeva'92s samadhi.

Those who stay there will realize that those acaryas are still living there. And if one is actually advancing in the spiritual field, they can still take instruction from the acaryas living there. It is up to the individual, how he realizes this by his devotional service. By staying there you must realize how pure the environment is. The environment itself gives a high taste of consciousness. Radha-Damodara is there and the great acarya'92s samadhis are there (Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada, Sri Jiva Gosvami Prabhupada, Sri Bhugarbha Gosvami Prabhupada, Krsna Dasa Kaviraja Gosvami Prabhupada, etc). There cannot be any better place to live than at Radha-Damodara. (Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)

Some stories are in GV Samadhis book, ch. 5.