Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

Where do you get that idea from -- that Srila Prabhupada made gay disciples his body servants? Thats absurd. I knew personally every single personal servant and secretary of His Divine Grace and in fact in 69 I was asked by Brahmananda whether or not I wanted to become Prabhupadas secretary when we divided the duties into servant and secretary (before that one person did both). So Id like to know on what basis did you make such a whacko statement on the Internet. Come on -- you said/wrote it -- now back it up. WHOM are you referring to? This I gotta see.

well I did not say all his body servants, just some.. [br]
[img]http://www.itvproductions.org/memories_images/part_pics/upendra%20dasa.gif[/img]

If a person is practicing homosexuality, they are not following the regulative principles. If a homosexual person is celibate, then they are following that regulative principle.

Thats fairly simple.

CCD --- thats not the issue here -- whether all or some of Srila Prabhupadas "body servants" were homosexuals. The allegation you made was that because they were homosexuals Srila Prabhupada thought it best to engage them in that service. You were projecting some thought or some reasoning or logic into the mind and decision of a pure devotee of God and I want to know how you arrived at such a conclusion that you would write it out on a public forum. Either back it up or retract it because I think the implications of it are very offensive to my spiritual master and Im not going to sit idly by whlie his legacy is besmirched by loose tongued talkers and quick fingered typists. So lets hear what youve got to say my friend ccd.

[quote][cite] portnoy:[/cite]The allegation you made was that because they were homosexuals Srila Prabhupada thought it best to engage them in that service.[/quote] I apologize if I came across like that, that was not my intention. I just meant that everyone has a tendency and SP was expert to engage devotees by the tendency not because they were this or that.

[quote][cite] ccd:[/cite][quote][cite] portnoy:[/cite]The allegation you made was that because they were homosexuals Srila Prabhupada thought it best to engage them in that service.[/quote] I apologize if I came across like that, that was not my intention. I just meant that everyone has a tendency and SP was expert to engage devotees by the tendency not because they were this or that.[/quote]

Those homosexual men had a tendency for what exactly that made them suitable as personal body servants?[br]

[br]Do you mean that some people have a tendency to be good personal servants, and that when they are born in a male body, a guru may engage them as his personal body servants (while a lady may engage those born in a female body)?[br]

[br](There are the stereotypes of the homosexual male nurse or personal assistant, but I dont know of any statistics.)

[quote][cite] Bhagavatamrta:[/cite]Prabhupada could see the future.[/quote]

So I suppose he knew all about the BS that would come after his departure and not do a thing about it?

I dont like seeing that transcribed conversation between Jamadagni, Kanupriya, Rebatinandana and Srila Prabhupada. It was unfortuante at the time that Rebatinandana fell under the sway of those two knuckleheads and used his "influence" to get them a personal audience with Srila Prabhupada. By the way -- Rebatinandana is first cousins with Visnujana Maharaja. Their mothers were sisters. Anyway, in those days Kanupriya was busy trying to seduce other mens wives with his astrology readings (oh -- the stars say that you should go to bed with me ..) and Jamadagni was so puffed up in thinking he was some kind of super genius that he bragged that he could defeat Srila Prabhupada in a debate. Knowing well their intentions and motives Srila Prabhupada reciprocated with them and repeatedly told them that there was nothing he could teach them or explain to them and it would be better if they left -- just went away. In my opinion the transcription of that meeting shouldnt even be put up for public consumption. It can easily be misunderstood and taken out of context.

I really do not like the strategy of character assasination of any kinds of any whistleblowers. Here what one of the independent thinkers of Iskcon wrote about them:

"Back in 1971, as a new devotee, I got to know Jamadagni dasa, an intelligent, well-spoken young man with a strong independent streak that kept him in trouble with ISKCON temple leaders. Because he couldnt get along with the authorities, Jamadagni was for years on the move between the different ISKCON centers of North America. By 1975 he was settled in Los Angeles, working in an outside-the-temple business with a Godbrother named Kanupriya dasa. Their professed aim was to preach from within the karmi society and develop varnasrama-dharma. The general opinion of the devotees living in the Los Angeles temple was that Jamadagni and Kanupriya were "off."

Is it at all possible that because they were supporting a congregational model of Siddhasvarupanada that they got into a serious difficulty with with leaders. It is a fact that Siddha had a run in with gay leaders in ISKCON. He at the Hawaii temple, Siddhasvarupa dasa came to visit Srila Prabhupada in his private garden. After some initial conversation, Siddhasvarupa began complaining to Prabhupada about the gay devotees in ISKCON.

Now why is that conversation with Prabhupada censored? Why are these complaints were not recorded or did the tapes just disappear? How many related letters and conversations were excluded from the records? The suggestion that we have to censor the fact that devotees complained to Prabhupada is rediculous. The fact that this conversation is already censored is rediculous, considering that we talk with such oppennes about much less serious problems with leadership.

Related thread is http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/49/2/homosexuality-in-iskcon/
so maybe it is a good idea to close this one... ?

ccdji-- What the hell are you talking about? I know who Jeffrey Armstrong and Kenny Zepetello were. You see I have something built in to me called a bullshit detector. I can see it and hear it and smell it from miles and miles away. They were both full of shit. What does Siddhaswarup and homosexuality and Varnasrama dharma have to do with the Brooklyn Bridge? Are you smoking pot? Stop it. It confuses you.

>Are you smoking pot?

Never tried, should I? But I think we have all the symptoms of trying to brush over the serious issue (ad humanum). I rather trust what Suhotra said about them.

Actually Prabhus my wish in starting this thread on Homosexual marriage or gay partners was that i can see benefits for those who participate....Though i am myself an extremely conservative individual who initially was very against the whole idea,i think it should be encouraged.However not directly by iskcon or our gurus......but by individuals....like temple presidents.... who see that marriage or partnerships will provide some benefits for the individuals concerned and the greater society.

Though personally i disagree with some of hrdayananda swamis actions..... i do admire his boldness and sincere efforts to solve a differcult problem.

Prabhupada could see the future. The prof is that he addressed this to the "gay marriage" issue back in 1974 :-)
Just see, its on video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RX7JL-MSc0

"And some men also, just like we have trained
up. It is possible, this is practical example.

So priest should be ideal character,
and they are advocating homosex.

Where is the ideal character man?

If the priestly class are going
to hospital for drinking habit

and they are allowing man-to-man marriage
and homosex, then where is ideal character?
"

[quote][cite] Kyros:[/cite][quote][cite] Bhagavatamrta:[/cite]Prabhupada could see the future.[/quote]

So I suppose he knew all about the BS that would come after his departure and not do a thing about it?[/quote]

He gave us the knowledge/wisdom and we are to do with it as we please.If he did everything for us what would be our service?

kyros,I dont know if you know if you are aware but what you said would be very, very hurtful for Prabhupada to hear if he was to hear it.you obviously dont value his contribution appropriately so you are not able to put your question in a more sensible manner.

[quote][cite] Kyros:[/cite][quote][cite] Bhagavatamrta:[/cite]Prabhupada could see the future.[/quote]

So I suppose he knew all about the BS that would come after his departure and not do a thing about it?[/quote]

Even Krsna dont interfere with our little independence. Srila Prabhupada gave us everything that we need to keep the society working and expand the preaching. Any kind of failure is our fault. Dont be a spoiled child, demanding more than he already gave us. He already gave us far more than any of us would deserve.