Pariprashnena — Q&A Archive

In a letter to Alanatha (November 10, 1975), Srila Prabhupada makes it perfectly clear that he wants all his disciples to become qualified gurus:

"All of our students will have to become Guru, but they are not qualified. This is the difficulty."

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Hard to understand! Is it?

Any comments?

SILENCE MEANS AGREEMENT! :)

Ysvt.

Actually by definition a Kanistha is a personal who is unable to discriminate ....who is unable to preach effectively.Mostly they are unqualified because they are deficent in personal realisation.Hence they are incapable of seeing clearly the innocent,the devotees and the demons.As a consequence are unable to properly deal with them......The innocent ,you should be compassionate ...introduce them to Srila Prabhupadas Gaudiya vaisnava culture.The devotees you make them your freinds and encourage each other.With the demoniac ....you do not preach them.....possibly cheat them into serving krishna...if you are expert.

Can a Kanistha devotee give diksa.....well yes they can !Actually within brahminical culture it happens all the time.Ananta Vasudeva who was responsible for these classifications,was so bold as to allow all his godbrothers to initiate.As the Archarya after srila Bhaktisiddanta saraswati takura he personally allowed this Blanket approach to all his godbrothers....everyone was able to initiate.....even if from a philosophical and realisation staus they were unqualified....Personally such a mood would solve alot of the problems within Iskcon in my humble opinion.

>Can a Kanistha Guru bestow Diksa?

There is no such thing as Kanistha Guru. This term "Kanistha Guru" is modern concoction. In vedic terms, Guru means Sadguru. There are no terms like Kanistha Guru or Pagal Guru.

Sorry to inflame your feelings ...but how about the diksa guru of Srila Bhaktivinoda takura.Vipina bihari goswami......whom srila Bhaktisiddanta verbally attacked at his farthers initiation ....referring to him as a possible fool.Refusing to accept his natural status within our line......He was a caste Brahmana.....An accepted archarya within the descendents of the householder devotees of the Panca tattva.....But according to his offensive behaviour towards Raghunatha das goswami.....a kanistha...because he found fault with his birth in a non-brahmana family.
Srila Prabhupada refers to his godbrothers who worshiped the deity ,,,,but did not engage in sankirtan preaching as kanisthas.....many such godbrothers he attacked openly ,they initiated....Just off the top of my head....but with serious research i am shore i can find many more......!Diksa in vedic terms is generally given mandatory within brahmana families at the age of eight years......In my family line... we give gayatri mantra while washing baby at the birth .....There is a cultural aspect to involved also....hare krishna.....Actually within the gaudiya matha i have been to meetings where they give initiation as long as they promise to chant hare krishna regularly.... everyone in the room......instantaniously....spiritual names also ,...but no regulative principles....diksa ceremony.My ex-wife gunjamala devi das accepted....But they take Brahmana initiation as the substantial one....Which is the significant important spiritual purificatory right of passage.

However even if one is not even kanistha, if say someone experiencing a reflection of true devotion, according to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti this Prati Bimba devotion is so powerful that it is enough to bestow moksa on one without one'92s undergoing the hard penances of sense control. What to speak of pure devotees that according to Prabhupada are of three classes - kanistha, madhyama and uttama?

brahmuc0u257 nu803 du803 a bhramite kona bhu257 gyavu257 n ju299 va

guru-kru803 su803 nu803 a-prasu257 de pu257 ya bhakti-latu257 -bu299 ja

"According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kru803 su803 nu803 a. By the mercy of both Kru803 su803 nu803 a and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service." (Cc. Madhya 19.151) Only a fortunate living entity gets the opportunity to associate with Kru803 su803 nu803 a and Kru803 su803 nu803 as devotee, and in this way he gets the seed of devotional service, the chanting of the Hare Kru803 su803 nu803 a mantra, and then his life becomes sublime.

So even when it is kanistha guru, receiving the bakti -lata-bija ....the seed of devotional service is by the combined mercy of guru and krishna.This is the formality...then it is up to the sincerity of the disciple and the receptive nature of ones heart to embrace serving krishna....This serving krishna is the actual empowering process.Jevonmukha....according to Queen kunti.

[quote][cite] sri_govinda_das:[/cite]...but how about the diksa guru of Srila Bhaktivinoda takura.Vipina bihari goswami......whom srila Bhaktisiddanta verbally attacked at his farthers initiation ....referring to him as a possible fool.Refusing to accept his natural status within our line......He was a caste Brahmana.....An accepted archarya within the descendents of the householder devotees of the Panca tattva.....But according to his offensive behaviour towards Raghunatha das goswami.....a kanistha...because he found fault with his birth in a non-brahmana family.[/quote]

Bhaktivinoda Thakura had a totally different vision of Bipina Bihari. He saw his guru to be an eternally liberated manjari. He immortalized that vision in his poetry. This is the vision that counts for me.

------------------------ I got diksa from a kanistha guru. So what? I have not been slowed down by that - only by my own anarthas. ----------- The Gayatri is Krsna Himself and He is all powerfull.

Yes but this Viphina bihari gosawmi publically rejected srila Bhaktivinoda Tahkura ,because of his own materialistic conceptions and inability to see his disciples Uttama -Adhikara status in 1919 just before he passed on.Primarily because of his personal opinion,that the birth place of sri Chaitanya mahaprabhu was in the wrong location.However more dynamically intrusive was Srila Bhaktisiddanta saraswati s aggressive preaching style and democratically liberating gaudiya visionary spirit.Thus allowing non-brahmana born to accept brahmana initiation, destroying the previous Caste Brahmana monopoly of thought and perceived vaisnava superiority. Which had been centred within the householder lines from the descendents of the Pancha Tattva and Sri Jahnava tahkurani the wife of sri Nityananda Prabhu.These groups were broadly seen as Caste brahmana in nature and were predominantly content to maintain their isolated self interest at the expense of true vaisnava culture.

[quote][cite] dweller-in-peace:[/cite]>Can a Kanistha Guru bestow Diksa?

There is no such thing as Kanistha Guru. This term "Kanistha Guru" is modern concoction. In vedic terms, Guru means Sadguru. There are no terms like Kanistha Guru or Pagal Guru.[/quote]

Yes and SatGuru by its very defintion is Avesa-avatara,always. ALWAYS!
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.
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THIS IS VAISNAVA-THAKUR!

Sakti-avesa.

BSST.

BSST.

[quote][cite] dave:[/cite]sakti-avesa[/quote]Gaurasakti svarupaya? => BVT (If you try to measure everyone to BVT - good luck!)

He whose only teaching is humility greater than that of a blade of grass, said'97'93By My command being guru save this land!'94 In this instance Mah'e4prabhu Himself has given the command. His command being '93Perform the duty of the guru, even as I do it Myself. Also convey this command to whom-so-ever you chance to meet.'94 Caitanyadeva says, '93Tell them these very words, viz. By My command being Guru save this land. Deliver the people from their foolishness.'94 Now who-so-ever happens to hear these words would naturally protest with palms joined'97'93But I am really a great sinner; how can I be Guru? You are Godhead Himself, the Teacher of the world. You can be Guru.'94 To this Mah'e4prabhu replies:

'93In this thou will not be obstructed
by the current of the world;
Thou wilt have My company once again
at this place.'94

'93Do not practice the craft of a guru for the purpose of injuring others through malice. Do not adopt the trade of a guru in order to get immersed in the slough of this world. But if you can, indeed, be My guileless servant you will be endowed with My power'97then you need not fear.'94

I have no fear. My gurudeva has heard this from his gurudeva. And it is for this reason that my gurudeva has accepted even such a great sinner as myself and has told me: '93By My command being guru save this land.'94 It is only those who have never heard these words of Gaursundara who say '93How odd! To listen to one'92s own praise!'94

-BSST.

[quote][cite] dave:[/cite]-BSST.[/quote] Still no quote - who is ur translator?

Of course there is also no reason for a kanstha not to be a sakti-avesa. But general requirement is for a diksa guru to be empowered and to be an uttama with the following characteristics: SAstra-yuktye sunipuNa, dRDhaSraddhA yA'ecra - that is the requirement. There are many devotees who are like that.

[quote][cite] sri_govinda_das:[/cite]Yes but this Viphina bihari gosawmi publically rejected srila Bhaktivinoda Tahkura ,because of his own materialistic conceptions and inability to see his disciples Uttama -Adhikara status in 1919 just before he passed on.Primarily because of his personal opinion,that the birth place of sri Chaitanya mahaprabhu was in the wrong location.[/quote]

Bipina Bihari rejected Bhaktivinoda only when he found out that Bhaktivinoda supposedly faked some sanskrit texts and presented them to the Vaishnavas as ancient scriptures proving his location of the Yoga-pitha. Up to that point BB was extremely fond of his disciple and considered him greatly advanced. The very title Bhaktivinoda was awarded to him thanks to BB efforts.

Yes within his letters ...Srila Bhaktivinoda takura and his wife Bhagavati are very thankful for diksa,he comments he is very thankful that he no longer eats meat!..As a result he completly took responsibility for his gurus financial concerns ....literally paying his weekly bills and maintinence.......he quotes the scriptures sacchiSyair
guru-niSkRtiH'97"Good disciples protect the spiritual master from all danger"
and says that he has not been able to fulfill this command.......Which symptomised Srila Bhaktivinoda takura and his wife Bhagavatis personal attitude to their guru....viphina bihari goswami.....Such was their attitude even though their guru was prone to smoke cigarettes...